It also seems like this communication preference is being used to shift co-parenting into a trio, and it does not seem like that is desired or needed or legally established in any way.
I would balk at adding the step mom to my comms in this case as well. It sounds like stepmom has more voice/control than she should or the mother wants. I bristled when she described her as having (or trying to have) equal voice in parenting decisions. Her voice should be through her H.
If I was being asked to utilize a group chat to communicate a drop-off time or change in schedule, sure. No issue. That has an effect on everyone’s day-to-day activities. But I don’t think I would include her on emails about ADHD medication, etc.
But this view takes no consideration for the mother's perspective.
I mean, my honest opinion is that it’s not too much of an ask to message in the group text or include her on the email, and in refusing to do so, the OP is throwing down just as much as they are. Everyone is being stubborn and not seeing the other person’s side.
There's a line and the new wife wants to cross it. Emails/texts about scheduling, I can understand being included but parenting decisions? Nope that's where I draw the line and let the bio parents deal with it and inform me after the fact. The new wife wants to be included on those and that would be a hard NOPE from me.
I have this dynamic w J's son (bio mom & dad, stepdad, and me). Once I move in, I want to be kept in the loop for scheduling purposes, especially since we'll have 2 kids to account for. Any parenting decisions, that's between J and his ex, not J, his ex and us stepparents. Us stepparents are fine w being filled in after the fact.
I mean, my honest opinion is that it’s not too much of an ask to message in the group text or include her on the email, and in refusing to do so, the OP is throwing down just as much as they are. Everyone is being stubborn and not seeing the other person’s side.
There's a line and the new wife wants to cross it. Emails/texts about scheduling, I can understand being included but parenting decisions? Nope that's where I draw the line and let the bio parents deal with it and inform me after the fact. The new wife wants to be included on those and that would be a hard NOPE from me.
I have this dynamic w J's son (bio mom & dad, stepdad, and me). Once I move in, I want to be kept in the loop for scheduling purposes, especially since we'll have 2 kids to account for. Any parenting decisions, that's between J and his ex, not J, his ex and us stepparents. Us stepparents are fine w being filled in after the fact.
I do agree with that. I definitely give my opinion but ultimately it’s up to them, as it should be. They have to do what they think is best. But even then, they include me in the conversation and I’m given a voice. For example we are apparently throwing our oldest a 21st bday party complete with alcohol, which is something I disagree with. Go enjoy being 21, and you’re welcome to drink with us, but paying for you and your friends to get drunk is not high on my priority list (actually I think it’s kind of inappropriate). But it’s super important to the kids’ mom, and my husband doesn’t want to fight her on it and be the bad guy in his daughter’s eyes, so I lose. Oh well, not a huge deal except it’s costing way more than I’m comfortable with but again, I got no say on this aspect of our joint finances. I can’t imagine how irate I’d be if his ex acted like my opinion didn’t matter at all, even if she did overrule it.
There's a line and the new wife wants to cross it. Emails/texts about scheduling, I can understand being included but parenting decisions? Nope that's where I draw the line and let the bio parents deal with it and inform me after the fact. The new wife wants to be included on those and that would be a hard NOPE from me.
I have this dynamic w J's son (bio mom & dad, stepdad, and me). Once I move in, I want to be kept in the loop for scheduling purposes, especially since we'll have 2 kids to account for. Any parenting decisions, that's between J and his ex, not J, his ex and us stepparents. Us stepparents are fine w being filled in after the fact.
I do agree with that. I definitely give my opinion but ultimately it’s up to them, as it should be. They have to do what they think is best. But even then, they include me in the conversation and I’m given a voice. For example we are apparently throwing our oldest a 21st bday party complete with alcohol, which is something I disagree with. Go enjoy being 21, and you’re welcome to drink with us, but paying for you and your friends to get drunk is not high on my priority list (actually I think it’s kind of inappropriate). But it’s super important to the kids’ mom, and my husband doesn’t want to fight her on it and be the bad guy in his daughter’s eyes, so I lose. Oh well, not a huge deal except it’s costing way more than I’m comfortable with but again, I got no say on this aspect of our joint finances. I can’t imagine how irate I’d be if his ex acted like my opinion didn’t matter at all, even if she did overrule it.
You sound like a great stepmom, but you are continuing to assume this woman has good intentions, and genuinely loves the kids. Not all stepmom are created equal.
Ok douche, go ahead and call it mud. My husband DID have halitosis. We addressed it after I talked to you girls on here and guess what? Years later, no problem. Mofongo, you're a cunt. Eat shit. ~anonnamus
Would you have a meal with him and every now and then post-divorce and pre-second marriage?
I’m trying to get a feel for how much he has changed and what your relationship was like before wife came on the scene. If he has truly changed 180 degrees, I’d be worried about him.
Yes! We got along great for the year post-separation before he remarried! We invited one another over to share meals, he even invited me to celebrate Christmas the first year he had the kids for the holiday. I look back on our emails from that time period and it was remarkable how well we co-parented! He's taken a 180 in almost every single way since his second marriage. Used to be light hearted, very social, active in leading social elements of a recreational sport club he was in and he's doing NONE of those things anymore. I actually feel concerned for him, tbh.
Would you have a meal with him and every now and then post-divorce and pre-second marriage?
I’m trying to get a feel for how much he has changed and what your relationship was like before wife came on the scene. If he has truly changed 180 degrees, I’d be worried about him.
Yes! We got along great for the year post-separation before he remarried! We invited one another over to share meals, he even invited me to celebrate Christmas the first year he had the kids for the holiday. I look back on our emails from that time period and it was remarkable how well we co-parented! He's taken a 180 in almost every single way since his second marriage. Used to be light hearted, very social, active in leading social elements of a recreational sport club he was in and he's doing NONE of those things anymore. I actually feel concerned for him, tbh.
I’m a stepmom and my take is a little different on some of this.
We have a group text and I also prefer we communicate everything major through that, because if they text just each other my husband forgets to tell me and then I get screwed. Like my SD won’t eat peppers and I already meal planned and grocery shopped for stuffed peppers for 2 dinners this week, and since I’m not a monster I won’t serve them with her here. So now I’m running to the grocery store last minute. Or, my husband has to work late on a night that my stepkid has an activity, and now I need to cancel dinner with my friend to cover, and if I had known I could have planned. Yes my husband SHOULD tell me, but sometimes he gets caught up at work. So actually, swapping days occurs in her home too and it affects her life too, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to run it by both of them. I assume he’s stopped responding when you message just him, because he’s so sick of asking you to include her.
If she’s nice to your kids, I’d just embrace involving her. If not, idk, I guess push back with the lawyer? But conflict with the ex wife is not going to make her treat your kids any nicer (I would never do this but it happens).
Regarding the not tolerating lateness and the other rudeness, that’s utter bullshit and I’d push back hard on that.
ETA to be clear, I don’t insist, or threaten, and my husband doesn’t ignore his ex if I’m not on the communication. I’m just quietly annoyed. She sounds like a LOT. I’m just saying, I can see why she wants to be included.
ETA again to play devil’s advocate. This woman married your husband and now shares her home with these kids who she is still getting to know. She has given up a LOT, because she loves him, and since you didn’t suggest she mistreats the kids I assume she’s trying hard there too. All she asks is that the ex wife include her on communication. And the ex wife refuses. Repeatedly, only contacts her ex. Your husband keeps asking the ex to include his new wife, and she won’t, so he’s stopped responding unless you’re added, and so then she goes and makes her own decisions rather than include you. It’s to the point that the ex wife is making time with her lawyer to insist on her right to push you out and keep you in the dark. Instead of just CCing you on the emails. How would YOU feel about the ex wife? You’d feel like she hates you and like you’re completely unwanted. When you’ve given up a huge chunk of your life to help raise her kids. That really does bring out the worst in people. All of a sudden being 3 minutes late feels like just another example of her selfishness and lack of consideration, and there’s a confrontation over it. Again I’m not condoning it, just saying- you’re refusing to integrate her into the family structure and that is for sure gonna bring you hostility back in your direction.
I think you misunderstood me because I *have* been copying her on everything as requested, because (a) I want to keep the peace and (b) I absolutely recognize that for many scheduling purposes it's helpful for her to be in the loop. It's only lately that I'm pushing back because it's utter BS that my ExH won't communicate with me about medical and other parenting decisions unless I involve his wife. Yes, she's helping raise my kids 50% of the time but I'm sorry - she doesn't get equal decision making power.
I'm very friendly toward her and have never, to my knowledge, given her reason to think I hold any hostility toward her. Her kids and my kids all go to school together, she comes to all the parent-teacher conferences and I let her know I appreciate her input and involvement in my kids' lives. But at the same time, I'd argue that she knowingly and willingly "gave up a huge chunk of her life to help raise my kids" and "gave up a lot because she loves my Ex". I did not ask her to do that and it's not necessary for me to grovel in gratitude for her sacrifice and give her equal decision making power in the kids' medical and parenting decisions just because she wants it.
IndiaInk, the not wanting to medicate a legitimate ADHD diagnosis, especially if meds are recommended by the pros, is insane to me and it also shows a profound lack of understanding as to how the ADHD brain processes things and the person struggles. I can look back and I can see my socially awkward moments, my lifelong struggle with school, feeling like a failure, lack of being able to stay organized or in a good routine.
The meds are not bad when they are helping the brain do, what neurotypical brains do, and feel more balanced in life.
IndiaInk , the not wanting to medicate a legitimate ADHD diagnosis, especially if meds are recommended by the pros, is insane to me and it also shows a profound lack of understanding as to how the ADHD brain processes things and the person struggles. I can look back and I can see my socially awkward moments, my lifelong struggle with school, feeling like a failure, lack of being able to stay organized or in a good routine.
The meds are not bad when they are helping the brain do, what neurotypical brains do, and feel more balanced in life.
I 100% agree. This is something I'm going to talk to my lawyer about because it's making my heart hurt for my son. ExH was always fully on board with medication for our DD who has ADHD and agreed that getting the right dosage has been life changing for her. But when we walked out of the doctor's office after getting the same diagnosis for our son (after a year of him struggling tremendously in Kindergarten) he told me he had to discuss with his wife before deciding whether to medicate, and made the offhand comment that "kids these days are overmedicated for ADHD". Wut?!!??
IndiaInk , the not wanting to medicate a legitimate ADHD diagnosis, especially if meds are recommended by the pros, is insane to me and it also shows a profound lack of understanding as to how the ADHD brain processes things and the person struggles. I can look back and I can see my socially awkward moments, my lifelong struggle with school, feeling like a failure, lack of being able to stay organized or in a good routine.
The meds are not bad when they are helping the brain do, what neurotypical brains do, and feel more balanced in life.
I 100% agree. This is something I'm going to talk to my lawyer about because it's making my heart hurt for my son. ExH was always fully on board with medication for our DD who has ADHD and agreed that getting the right dosage has been life changing for her. But when we walked out of the doctor's office after getting the same diagnosis for our son (after a year of him struggling tremendously in Kindergarten) he told me he had to discuss with his wife before deciding whether to medicate, and made the offhand comment that "kids these days are overmedicated for ADHD". Wut?!!??
When you go to court, take his entire diagnostic report with you. Let the court see what your son deals with and perhaps even a letter from his therapist or doctor. Also, i would be tempting to say to him ,"Who are you? I don't recognize this person anymore who needs to check in with a person who has only known our son for a short time and has no clue as to how he struggles. You used to put the needs of our kids first and now, it seems her desires come first. You're better than this."
Thanks everyone for your input. I really try to be a reasonable co-parent so it's nice to know I'm not out to lunch in thinking these requests are over the line. I called my attorney's office again and was able to get in for an appointment on Wednesday (!!) so hopefully will have some guidance soon.
Buying 21 years olds alcohol in celebration is inappropriate? I’m dying to know why jobae1234,
It’s just not how I was raised, idk. My family kept that kind of thing separate. Like, you do adult things with your adult money that you earn at your adult job. Paying to get her and her friends drunk just doesn’t sit right with me. You’re welcome to feel differently. But like, I went out with my FRIENDS for my 21st. I didn’t expect my parents to finance that, never mind host. We just had different boundaries. Of course, I had friends whose parents played beer pong with us in college, so I know there are a variety of viewpoints on this topic.
We have a group text and I also prefer we communicate everything major through that, because if they text just each other my husband forgets to tell me and then I get screwed. Like my SD won’t eat peppers and I already meal planned and grocery shopped for stuffed peppers for 2 dinners this week, and since I’m not a monster I won’t serve them with her here. So now I’m running to the grocery store last minute. Or, my husband has to work late on a night that my stepkid has an activity, and now I need to cancel dinner with my friend to cover, and if I had known I could have planned. Yes my husband SHOULD tell me, but sometimes he gets caught up at work.
Your argument here is that your DH's ex-wife should include you on all communications because your DH is forgetful? Way to dump that work on the women instead of where it belongs. Good lord.
I would have no issue including stepmom on communications about logistics but she has no business in discussing decisions made for the child. If dad wants to discuss with stepmom on his own, totally fine. But the decision making needs to be made between the 2 actual parents and it's ridiculous to ignore the dynamic of 2 against 1 once the step mom is involved in the actual discussions about meds, etc. She does not get a seat at the table and letting her have one shifts the power dynamic.
I mean, my honest opinion is that it’s not too much of an ask to message in the group text or include her on the email, and in refusing to do so, the OP is throwing down just as much as they are. Everyone is being stubborn and not seeing the other person’s side.
Because it is putting the mental burden on the mother to include the new wife. If dad wants to include his new wife then he can forward emails and text messages to her. It’s not her mental load to bear and honestly it’s BS that he expects her to be responsible for this. It’s his wife. Not hers.
This x 1000. The example in this thread of the husband being so busy at work he forgets to tell the new wife scheduling info so the ex wife has to? Talk about enabling weaponized incompetence.
I’m a stepmom and my take is a little different on some of this.
We have a group text and I also prefer we communicate everything major through that, because if they text just each other my husband forgets to tell me and then I get screwed. Like my SD won’t eat peppers and I already meal planned and grocery shopped for stuffed peppers for 2 dinners this week, and since I’m not a monster I won’t serve them with her here. So now I’m running to the grocery store last minute. Or, my husband has to work late on a night that my stepkid has an activity, and now I need to cancel dinner with my friend to cover, and if I had known I could have planned. Yes my husband SHOULD tell me, but sometimes he gets caught up at work. So actually, swapping days occurs in her home too and it affects her life too, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to run it by both of them. I assume he’s stopped responding when you message just him, because he’s so sick of asking you to include her.
If she’s nice to your kids, I’d just embrace involving her. If not, idk, I guess push back with the lawyer? But conflict with the ex wife is not going to make her treat your kids any nicer (I would never do this but it happens).
Regarding the not tolerating lateness and the other rudeness, that’s utter bullshit and I’d push back hard on that.
ETA to be clear, I don’t insist, or threaten, and my husband doesn’t ignore his ex if I’m not on the communication. I’m just quietly annoyed. She sounds like a LOT. I’m just saying, I can see why she wants to be included.
Why does it fall on your to clean up his "mess"? Why is he not rearranging his schedule to get his kid from the activity?
Because it is putting the mental burden on the mother to include the new wife. If dad wants to include his new wife then he can forward emails and text messages to her. It’s not her mental load to bear and honestly it’s BS that he expects her to be responsible for this. It’s his wife. Not hers.
This x 1000. The example in this thread of the husband being so busy at work he forgets to tell the new wife scheduling info so the ex wife has to? Talk about enabling weaponized incompetence.
ggirl,I feel like this goes into weaponized incompetence. All of this compensating for the man "Forgetting" the stuff to do with home, but yet seems to be doing well at work. Hmm
Some of y’all need to head into the weaponized incompetence thread because your husbands had the kids. They can co-parent them and communicate to the new spouses.
Some of y’all need to head into the weaponized incompetence thread because your husbands had the kids. They can co-parent them and communicate to the new spouses.
and rearrange their day to take their child to whichever activity or appointment calls for it. More importantly, don't be the sucker who falls for this shit. When you know they are successful at their jobs and all that it requires, they are capable of parenting their child.
Signed the woman who has not been able to get any fucking work done today because of multiple kid related upsets. (H did help, it was a tag team situation)
Stop emailing and texting him and call him for everything.
Email and text are passive communication styles that can quickly: quickly switch over to aggressive and controlling as seen here.
Calling and speaking in person allow for important human communication techniques like listening, tone of voice etc to be inserted back into the conversation and bring it back to assertive and a me=you level rather than me/you (aggressive) or you/me (passive).
With text she has evidence, a phone call she does not. The teacher in me says write it all down and get that date stamp.
Ok well to defend MY husband, I’ve posted on MM about how he has a history of multiple brain injuries (plus ADHD) and he may need to retire early, so I don’t consider his forgetting to be weaponized incompetence. And with all the nonstop logistics of 50/50 custody, I think things fall through the cracks even for people with fantastic brain health. And yes, in OP’s situation he can take the extra step to relay it all to her and then relay it all back. I personally wouldn’t make that choice, but sure.
Uggh I'm sorry this is awful. I'm glad you are able to get in with your attorney ASAP.
I think communicating through an app could be a good option. He can give her access so she sees the messages but you don't have to also message her. I think having everything documented in writing will be important.
And this is totally because of her if he wasn't like this before. The ADHD thing makes me irate.
Post by wanderingback on Jun 16, 2023 16:52:13 GMT -5
I think it’s totally fine if they have a group text thread with all 3 of them and relevant stuff goes in there. But for him to ignore her texts out of the group thread and DEMAND the wife be copied on everything is not ok and doesn’t need to be tolerated.
OP, sorry you’re dealing with this and hopefully your lawyer has some good suggestions.
Stop emailing and texting him and call him for everything.
Email and text are passive communication styles that can quickly: quickly switch over to aggressive and controlling as seen here.
Calling and speaking in person allow for important human communication techniques like listening, tone of voice etc to be inserted back into the conversation and bring it back to assertive and a me=you level rather than me/you (aggressive) or you/me (passive).
I adamantly disagree with this advice. Honestly this gives very much a “you two should really try to get along” vibe. If you’ve never been in court to decent a decision in legal custody for the best interest of your child, to someone who is actively Counterparenting those decisions (which it sounds like he is) you really can’t understand this dynamic.
She needs documentation of these conversations or they never happened.
Just so it's clear: The OP CANNOT make decisions right now because her ex has blocked her from communication because he has control through text and email. Are you suggesting that there are NOT ways in which she can document a phone call and what was said? Because in my state you can record phone calls. You can write down the date and time of the call as well as what was said--similar to what is done in counseling or doctor's note--and no where did I say don't document, and no where did I suggest that it was a "you should try to get along," vibe--I'm sorry you took it that way. Effectively the Ex has taken away her voice and so--NO they are NOT getting along and she has no control in the situation. Explain to the group how they are "getting along," now? Because she seems a little hamstrung and that's part of what she's asking about.
There are ways she can have her voice heard, and gain back some control. And there are ways she can safely, legally and effectively document her conversations while using the phone.
In my state, parents can choose to use a special app for all communication. I’d ask about that because I’m pretty sure it only has the 2 legal parties included.
I adamantly disagree with this advice. Honestly this gives very much a “you two should really try to get along” vibe. If you’ve never been in court to decent a decision in legal custody for the best interest of your child, to someone who is actively Counterparenting those decisions (which it sounds like he is) you really can’t understand this dynamic.
She needs documentation of these conversations or they never happened.
Just so it's clear: The OP CANNOT make decisions right now because her ex has blocked her from communication because he has control through text and email. Are you suggesting that there are NOT ways in which she can document a phone call and what was said? Because in my state you can record phone calls. You can write down the date and time of the call as well as what was said--similar to what is done in counseling or doctor's note--and no where did I say don't document, and no where did I suggest that it was a "you should try to get along," vibe--I'm sorry you took it that way. Effectively the Ex has taken away her voice and so--NO they are NOT getting along and she has no control in the situation. Explain to the group how they are "getting along," now? Because she seems a little hamstrung and that's part of what she's asking about.
There are ways she can have her voice heard, and gain back some control. And there are ways she can safely, legally and effectively document her conversations while using the phone.
I appreciate this response because it gives me more to think about. I agree that email and text can easily be misconstrued and in my experience I've had more meaningful conversations with both my Ex and his wife in person. I don't really converse with him over the phone and am pretty careful to keep a paper trail of our interactions lately, but I do think that some of this growing animosity might be reduced with some human interaction. Recording calls would be a good way to kill two birds with one stone, if legal in my state.
My default is to be as reasonable as possible, both for my own sanity and also for the sake of my kids. This is why I posted - I want to get some perspective on my situation and find some ideas I might not have considered.
Just no to the notion that mom needs to be mindful of how stepmom “gives up so much.” Not the mom’s choice, or her problem. I know stepparents have a tough row to hoe, but that is in no way the consequence of any choice the mom made. It’s a non-factor.
IndiaInk, if you choose to try the phone conversation, follow up with an email summary. "As per on conversation on XX, we agree to ABC." We do this in my school district after a verbal conversation with parents just to put a formal time stamp on the conversation.
I don't know how well it would hold up in court, but it at least shows you made an attempt at documentation and if he doesn't respond to the email, he can't later argue that he has a different memory of the conversation. If his take away was different, presumably he should reply with corrections.
I do agree with that. I definitely give my opinion but ultimately it’s up to them, as it should be. They have to do what they think is best. But even then, they include me in the conversation and I’m given a voice. For example we are apparently throwing our oldest a 21st bday party complete with alcohol, which is something I disagree with. Go enjoy being 21, and you’re welcome to drink with us, but paying for you and your friends to get drunk is not high on my priority list (actually I think it’s kind of inappropriate). But it’s super important to the kids’ mom, and my husband doesn’t want to fight her on it and be the bad guy in his daughter’s eyes, so I lose. Oh well, not a huge deal except it’s costing way more than I’m comfortable with but again, I got no say on this aspect of our joint finances. I can’t imagine how irate I’d be if his ex acted like my opinion didn’t matter at all, even if she did overrule it.
You sound like a great stepmom, but you are continuing to assume this woman has good intentions, and genuinely loves the kids. Not all stepmom are created equal.
And she continues to project that everyone should stepparent the way she does.
There's a line and the new wife wants to cross it. Emails/texts about scheduling, I can understand being included but parenting decisions? Nope that's where I draw the line and let the bio parents deal with it and inform me after the fact. The new wife wants to be included on those and that would be a hard NOPE from me.
I have this dynamic w J's son (bio mom & dad, stepdad, and me). Once I move in, I want to be kept in the loop for scheduling purposes, especially since we'll have 2 kids to account for. Any parenting decisions, that's between J and his ex, not J, his ex and us stepparents. Us stepparents are fine w being filled in after the fact.
I do agree with that. I definitely give my opinion but ultimately it’s up to them, as it should be. They have to do what they think is best. But even then, they include me in the conversation and I’m given a voice. For example we are apparently throwing our oldest a 21st bday party complete with alcohol, which is something I disagree with. Go enjoy being 21, and you’re welcome to drink with us, but paying for you and your friends to get drunk is not high on my priority list (actually I think it’s kind of inappropriate). But it’s super important to the kids’ mom, and my husband doesn’t want to fight her on it and be the bad guy in his daughter’s eyes, so I lose. Oh well, not a huge deal except it’s costing way more than I’m comfortable with but again, I got no say on this aspect of our joint finances. I can’t imagine how irate I’d be if his ex acted like my opinion didn’t matter at all, even if she did overrule it.
Is your opinion asked for? Are you giving this opinion about parenting decisions, or scheduling discussions?