Ex won't talk to me without new wife involved

[IndiaInk]

Long time board participant here, but I don't post a whole lot.  I have a situation that I'd love you all to weigh in on....

Background: My exH and I separated in early 2020 and our divorce was official a year later.  We have a 9 year old DD and 6 year old DS together.  He remarried pretty quickly and I am in a committed relationship now as well, though my bf lives in another state. ExH and I were very amicable throughout the entire process but he has gotten increasingly rigid and unbending towards me since his marriage.  

Here's the dilemma. (Disclaimer, I have an appointment to talk to my lawyer about this in July, but since it's irritating me on a daily basis I thought I'd crowd source some opinions)  Though we only communicate to discuss the kids and our parenting schedule, ExH now insists I copy his wife on every single communication, whether it be by email or text.  He categorically refuses to respond to me if I don't copy her.  He ignores my messages and if I ask him to respond, he redirects me to the group thread.  We are talking about things as wide-ranging in importance from whether or not to treat DS' ADHD with medication, to confirming I picked up the kids from the bus stop.  

I (and our mutual friends) have definitely noticed an increase in controlling behavior from him, that wasn't present in our marriage.  He used to be pretty easy-going so this is new for me to navigate and I can only assume it's, in part, initiated by his wife.  On the rare occasions I talk to them in person, they are very stern and unsmiling and unfriendly.  Recently, when I arrived 3.5 minutes after the time I stated I'd pick up the kids, they informed me as a united front that lateness would no longer be tolerated.   If we set up an in person meeting to discuss parenting concerns, she's required to be present and he gives her equal floor to weigh in on all aspects of the discussion and wont' make a decision without her consensus.  

My therapist was outraged on my behalf when I told her he won't discuss the kids with me if the wife isn't involved, and said I should talk to my lawyer because it's likely a violation of our parenting agreement.  I did set up an appointment, but I guess I'm wondering if I'm being a bit unreasonable. Wife is helping him raise my kids and will presumably be in their lives long term, so I'm not unwilling to involve her in some communications where it makes sense.  I have tried all along to be reasonable and go the extra mile to keep the peace because he's a great dad and I firmly believe there's no reason to be unpleasant toward one another just because we weren't a fit for one another.  We were together 16 years, he's a really good guy, and I wish the best for him.  But I also don't want to be subjected to silly games and set up a precedent that I'm willing to comply with whatever new rules they come up with.  I don't know...what says ML?

[Jalapeñomel]

This would irritate the shit out of me too. I have no idea about legal implications, but I’d absolutely bring this up with my lawyer.

[mcmel]

Sounds like she’s jealous

[cleo29]

My guess is that she is directing this. Maybe she is jealous or does not like it or the idea that you two have/had an amicable relationship. I find it really odd and agree to check your parenting agreement.

[VillainV]

I’m not an expert, but this would irritate the shit out of me too.

I agree that it sounds like it could be a violation of the parenting agreement as it currently stands. If he wants to revisit the parenting agreement, then that could be an option, and that way you could agree on and codify something that makes sense, like communicating through a co-parenting app and allowing her access to discussions but no decision power? Or read-only access?

[Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear]

Oh Hell No.

[mofongo]

It’s like she’s insisting they present as this ultra united front, at all times! 🤢 Yes, she is now involved, but no, she does not need to be involved in every.single.interaction!

[MixedBerryJam]

If you have been cc’ing her to keep the peace I would stop that so it can’t be used as having set a precedent going forward and I’d close all emails with something like “I’ll assume xyz above is accurate/acceptable/whatever unless I hear back from you,” and then only follow what your attorney advises. And I would tell the attorney privately something along the lines of, “Oh, hell no” regarding dealing with the wife.

[Patsy Baloney]

Duuude the “United front” castigation for lateness would have sent me through the roof.

[mcppalmbeach]

Oh mylanta.

[plutosmoon]

Jun 15, 2023 20:01:28 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

If you have been cc’ing her to keep the peace I would stop that so it can’t be used as having set a precedent going forward and I’d close all emails with something like “I’ll assume xyz above is accurate/acceptable/whatever unless I hear back from you,” and then only follow what your attorney advises. And I would tell the attorney privately something along the lines of, “Oh, hell no” regarding dealing with the wife.

This is exactly the approach my lawyer advised me to use with my unresponsive exh, usually with a timeline. As an example when signing DD up for activities "Dear XH, Dance registration begins next week, DD would like to take ballet, here is the schedule. I will be signing her up when registration begins unless I hear otherwise from you before then". My lawyer had a name for this, like implicit agreement or agreement by default  or something legal sounding.  I would bring this to your lawyer and use this method in the meantime, communicating with only him, he can loop his new wife in. It is not your responsibility to keep her informed, that's his job. There may be occasions you want to copy her in, but I would not do so in every case. My guess is she is very insecure and for some reason sees you as a threat.

Also, the 3 minutes late united front nonsense, most parenting agreements have 15-30 minute grace periods written into the handoff times. Like you can't just leave if the other party isn't there at 6pm on the dot, you must wait X minutes. So if he tries to withhold the kids for that, I suspect a judge won't be very happy with him.

[sent]

Sounds like he is delegating his portion of the parenting to her. Sometimes at my office, a step mom will bring the kids in for routine visits. We need to communicate some stuff to the parents but the dad is at work and not picking up the phone and the mother lives somewhere else or in another state. She's the only adult present at that moment who can get all the info back to the parents for those kids or else their care gets delayed. In those situations, it seems like it's better if all the adults in the children's lives know all the details and are on the same page. I don't know anything about divorce arrangements but I just thought of this scenario when I read your post.

[mysteriouswife]

Your attorney will laugh this shit all the way to the judge if it gets that far. Ain’t no way in hell.

[ECB]

Yeah. Talk to your lawyer, but my response would be, as said, “you are their father, i will communicate with you. If you want to Includeher, that’s your responsibility. Not mine.” And yeah - check the language on hand offs. 3.5 mins late?? WTF?!?!

[gemini79]

Who are the legal guardians of your kids? You and your ex? Is tye step mom in any way a legal guardian?

Bc if she's not, it's patently ridiculous that your ex is insisting you include her. It's a courtesy to do so. Not a demand he can make.

As to the lateness comment. How funny will it be when these two get stuck in traffic and you have to admonish them that tardiness just can't be tolerated.

[Pilsy]

Sure, there are times to copy her. But every time?? Ha! NO.

(Also, it's great to hear from you!)

[campermom]

My first thought is they are in an unhappy place.

Second. I’d 100% go to my lawyer over this. What begins as “we are a united front” will soon turn into this woman veto’ing your parenting decisions as he takes a step back.

That’s just my two cents.
Def go to the lawyer over this.
I consult my lawyer so often. They are so smart and have such strategy in mind. It’s worth it

[sadlebred]

I wonder if his wife thinks he is cheating with someone and asks him to copy her on all of his emails and texts? Yeah, you need to talk to you lawyer.

[livinitup]

What you are sensing is ‘triangulation’ and it is dysfunctional.

You are not in a parenting thruple.

[Leeham Rimes]

Your ex is probably gonna get his ass spanked by your attorney and quite possibly a judge.

I wouldn’t any further address “his demand” that his new wife is an equal decision maker. Unless she’s listed in your child custody agreement as a person to have contact/make decisions, your ex can’t just change an agreement as it suits him or hold decisions hostage until you give in to his demands.

I like the idea of no longer asking for a consensus “should we let DS take skate lessons ” and replace with “unless I hear from you by days end, DS will be enrolled in skate lessons” or whatever (may not work for everything but maybe table any very important discussions until you’re able to talk to your attorney. )

[Roc A Bee]

I am a stepmom and my SK’s mom will include me on some texts with my DH. I usually don’t respond because it doesn’t feel like my place. I would hate your situation!

I like the advice of instead of phrasing things as questions, to phrase them as statements with a “if I don’t hear by X, I’ll take that as an ok”

I would not include her in any chats/emails. And honestly I would try to limit the communication at all if possible.

If you don’t have a window for drop-off/pick up, I’d see about adding 15-30 mins.

[maudefindlay]

My first thought was that they are making a case to have more custody.

[campermom]

Jun 16, 2023 5:19:53 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

My first thought was that they are making a case to have more custody.

poof

[orangello]

Yes - lawyer, immediately. Making unreasonable demands on timeliness and communication is their way of trying to “catch” you making mistakes, so they can use that against you. They likely have not consulted anyone about this, so before they make any moves you need to get them to knock it the hell off.

[arielroux]

I have no advice, but just reading this made me irate on your behalf.

The 3.5 minutes late thing? I think my head would have exploded right then and there. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

[heygrey]

Can you get a call with your lawyer sooner? This would irritate me so much that waiting another 3+ weeks would be painful.

I like the idea of being able to say “I am doing xyz unless I hear from you by end of day”, but I would want confirmation from my lawyer that I could do that. I worry about him claiming he never received the communication and them retaliating with their own lawyer.

[Bernadine]

Ok, I’m a stepmom, and that is crazy! I have communicated with dss’ mom on a very limited basis, although of course I’m friendly when I see her in person. But I can’t imagine asking for this!

[midwestmama]

I am not a lawyer or a stepmom, but I agree with others, that a person who is not a legal guardian does not have any say in what happens with the children. The parents with legal guardianship get to discuss and decide, and then they inform/work out with their SO or spouse on what needs to happen. I'm with others who have said that it seems like the exH and new wife have something up their sleeve. Better to get your lawyer involved now. (Can you reach out by email to say, "I know we are meeting in a few weeks, but I have some urgent concerns. Can we meet sooner or can you provide me guidance for X, Y, Z via email to ensure that I don't say or do something wrong?")

And the castigation for being 3.5 minutes late is utterly ridiculous. Judges have no time for that nonsense.

[meanie]

You already have a lot of great responses, so I will just add my voice to the chorus of hell no's.

Would a mediator help? I wonder if it was just the two of you talking in a controlled environment, maybe he would be more rational.

She obviously has no legal footing here and you have no responsibility to keep her in the loop. Him not responding to you most likely violates the terms of your agreement, you could add language stipulating response times (I've seen this done in some cases where co-parenting was a battle).

The wording suggested around a non-response = agreement is pretty common at my job, we call it negative consent.

[egishere]

So sorry you have to deal with this! I'm curious...does this lady have kids as well? If so i'm sure she is just a delight for her ex to deal with.