People with alcoholic relatives, please come in

[rosiebear]

Or people with alcohol or drug problems themselves, if you’re willing to share.

I’ve written before about my sister, her struggle with alcoholism and other mental health issues. I don’t want to go into all of it, but I need a little guidance.

I know she’s not going to stop until she’s ready and I want to meet her where she’s at with love and support. My question is whether I should call her on her bullshit or pretend I believe her when she’s obviously lying about her sobriety. Her boundaries are hers to set, so I don’t want to plow in where I’m not wanted, but I also want her to know (maybe?) that I’m not an idiot who believes her every word.

Her latest is just dropping off the face of the earth, which she typically does when she relapses, then telling me today that she was in the “hospital” for 3 days for a bladder infection and low sodium.

She does have low sodium episodes, due to alcohol, but she told me that her sobriety is “intact.” Restored, maybe. Given her history of going into detox, being released, going to classes/therapy, rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat, I’m not buying her story.

I don’t know. I want to respect her boundaries and her privacy but I also want her to be straight with me. I guess that’s stupid - if she could do that, she would. I guess I should just let it go? Or not?

There’s more going on, but this is already a novella. I appreciate any insight.

[7costanza]

My BIL is an addict and lies constantly. I usually just make generally supportive statements “that sounds difficult”, “I’m sorry to hear that”, etc. and stay away from making any accusations or calling out either him or my sister, who either believes his lies or is in on them.

[dochas]

I don't want to read and not respond. But, because I was raised in an alcoholic home I kind of feel like I probably don't know what the healthy answer is. Have you had conversations with her about this before? I don't know if calling her out each time will be helpful as you never really know in a way you can prove if or why she was in the hospital (which really helps them with their manipulation). Perhaps just one conversation where you say you know she is still struggling with this and that you are willing to talk about her issues even if she relapses? (if that's true)

[ssmjlm]

I tried different approaches, neither were successful.

One would be “oh that sounds awful! I wish you would have let me know and I could have sent X to you to help!” Food, kindle books etc.

The other is just say “ok” and move on. It wasn’t worth calling her out.


Also, if it’s long term addiction, what ended up happening was my sisters brain was so fried, coherent thoughts were hard. She just no longer grasped certain concepts. My mom is dealing with her brother’s alcohol induced dementia. The addiction messes with their minds and they can’t process things the same way anymore.

[rosiebear]

Sept 22, 2023 15:09:36 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I tried different approaches, neither were successful.

One would be “oh that sounds awful! I wish you would have let me know and I could have sent X to you to help!” Food, kindle books etc.

The other is just say “ok” and move on. It wasn’t worth calling her out.


Also, if it’s long term addiction, what ended up happening was my sisters brain was so fried, coherent thoughts were hard. She just no longer grasped certain concepts. My mom is dealing with her brother’s alcohol induced dementia. The addiction messes with their minds and they can’t process things the same way anymore.

Your first response was almost word for word what I texted to her:
“Yikes! I’m glad you’re home but I wish you’d let us know what’s going on so we can step in and help.

But I will meet you where you’re at: these are your boundaries to draw! Love you.”

This sucks. She’s a completely unreliable narrator, even when she is sober. It’s hard to tell fact from fiction and it’s hard to know whether I should even try.

I very much appreciate all the responses.

[waverly]

My dad was an alcoholic for 40 years well before I was born, so as a child I didn't really feel that I could say too much to him. As an adult, I generally didn't get into it too much either, but I would praise when he said he stopped or said oh you should cut back whatever in general conversation. I don't think that was very helpful because he still drank.

By the time, he went to rehab he had alcohol induced dementia, and my sister was calling him out for lying to her because she was the primary caregiver, and he was in between assisted living places. He went to rehab, back out didn't drink according to him, but was manic and had to go to psychiatric inpatient and now is at assisted living again where he is unable to drink, and he is very out of it.

While, we weren't mean to him, I don't think we met him at love and support. We were polite, but he spent many years in South America basically drinking and having girlfriends, so we weren't really in each other's lives. So I guess love and support wasn't the angle we were going for, but neither was tough love either because we were pretty far removed from his daily life. 

[momof2]

I’ve basically assumed everything that comes out of my dad’s mouth for 30 years is a lie. And I just limit contact and mostly don’t care. The reality is he will die from this. He won’t have much of a relationship with his kids or grandkids. He may kill someone driving drunk. It is what it is. I have zero hope he will get better ever.

He is totally incapable of loving anyone in a normal way. I’ve had many years to deal with that.

[spindle92]

I'm coming in not with ideas but sitting next to you on this awful ride.

My brother, who lives with me due to a stroke he had about 5 years ago, sobered up after his stroke.
Then when my other brother passed away 2 yrs ago, he hit the bottle again.
He does not drink daily but when he does, he drinks so much that he becomes a completely different, nasty person.

I don't know how to help him or what to do anymore, so I basically ignore him on the nights he comes home completely shit-faced.

I too am open to any and all ideas, suggestions, tips, etc.

[momof2]

Sept 22, 2023 15:41:56 GMT -5 momof2 said:

I’ve basically assumed everything that comes out of my dad’s mouth for 30 years is a lie. And I just limit contact and mostly don’t care. The reality is he will die from this. He won’t have much of a relationship with his kids or grandkids. He may kill someone driving drunk. It is what it is. I have zero hope he will get better ever.

He is totally incapable of loving anyone in a normal way. I’ve had many years to deal with that.

Let me add that I generally don’t try to dispute his
Lies. It isn’t worth my breath. But I’m also not in “I love and support you mode.” Recently things have escalated and he tried to text me and my sisters some nonsense about how he isn’t an alcoholic. I basically texted him and said he was lying to himself and us and gave about 5 examples over the last 30 years of his nonsense. But I did that for me. I could not let a man that got a DUI the day before think I was nodding my head along with the “I’m not an alcoholic” nonsense. I’m not sure if I will ever have contact with him again. We shall see…

[momof2]

Sept 22, 2023 15:43:32 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

I'm coming in not with ideas but sitting next to you on this awful ride.

My brother, who lives with me due to a stroke he had about 5 years ago, sobered up after his stroke.
Then when my other brother passed away 2 yrs ago, he hit the bottle again.
He does not drink daily but when he does, he drinks so much that he becomes a completely different, nasty person.

I don't know how to help him or what to do anymore, so I basically ignore him on the nights he comes home completely shit-faced.

I too am open to any and all ideas, suggestions, tips, etc.

Personally, I would kick him out. But that is easy for me to say and probably very difficult for you to actually do. But I’m fully prepared for my dad to end up homeless and he isn’t moving into my house. I’m not “detaching with love”, I’m just detaching.

[rosiebear]

spindle92, that sounds really hard and awful. I’ll sit next to you.

[cattledogkisses]

I have a few people in my life who struggle with alcohol.

In a relationship with someone who is dealing with addiction and is not ready to seek help, all you can do is set healthy boundaries for yourself with that person, to take care of your own well-being. I would ask yourself whether it serves your well-being to try to call her out.

[thebreakfastclub]

My younger brother recently died of a heart attack that his heavy drinking certainly contributed to, if not caused. He was not honest with anyone and I don't know that anything could have been done to change the path. I'm really sorry for everyone that is going through this.

[spindle92]

Sept 22, 2023 15:51:24 GMT -5 momof2 said:

Sept 22, 2023 15:43:32 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

I'm coming in not with ideas but sitting next to you on this awful ride.

My brother, who lives with me due to a stroke he had about 5 years ago, sobered up after his stroke.
Then when my other brother passed away 2 yrs ago, he hit the bottle again.
He does not drink daily but when he does, he drinks so much that he becomes a completely different, nasty person.

I don't know how to help him or what to do anymore, so I basically ignore him on the nights he comes home completely shit-faced.

I too am open to any and all ideas, suggestions, tips, etc.

Personally, I would kick him out. But that is easy for me to say and probably very difficult for you to actually do. But I’m fully prepared for my dad to end up homeless and he isn’t moving into my house. I’m not “detaching with love”, I’m just detaching.

I know it sounds like I am enabling him and I probably am but my fear is if I kick him out, he will end up on the streets and I will never hear from him again.  After losing one brother, I just cannot bear, right now, to lose another.

Its a diffciult situation and I don't expect anyone to understand it.  Trust me, I have cried myself to sleep many a night worrying about him and also being upset with myself for not knowing how to handle this.

[momof2]

Sept 22, 2023 16:02:41 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

Sept 22, 2023 15:51:24 GMT -5 momof2 said:

Personally, I would kick him out. But that is easy for me to say and probably very difficult for you to actually do. But I’m fully prepared for my dad to end up homeless and he isn’t moving into my house. I’m not “detaching with love”, I’m just detaching.

I know it sounds like I am enabling him and I probably am but my fear is if I kick him out, he will end up on the streets and I will never hear from him again.  After losing one brother, I just cannot bear, right now, to lose another.

Its a diffciult situation and I don't expect anyone to understand it.  Trust me, I have cried myself to sleep many a night worrying about him and also being upset with myself for not knowing how to handle this.

To be clear, I fully support any decision you make. It has to be incredibly hard.

[gummy]

Al-anon might help some of you struggling to support an addict. In my experience, nothing you do will ever be right in their eyes, so you need to do what's best for you. There is no winning with this disease.

[mysteriouswife]

There is no reasoning with my MIL. We cannot get on her level. We have tried. It works until she figures us out. All I can say is make sure you are going into this with true expectations of being hurt.

My favorite line H took from his therapist. “You cannot care about someone else more than they care about themselves.” It’s harsh when you are living in the moment. But it helps me when I’m reflecting.

I send love and support.

[icedcoffee]

Sept 22, 2023 15:17:54 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Sept 22, 2023 15:09:36 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I tried different approaches, neither were successful.

One would be “oh that sounds awful! I wish you would have let me know and I could have sent X to you to help!” Food, kindle books etc.

The other is just say “ok” and move on. It wasn’t worth calling her out.


Also, if it’s long term addiction, what ended up happening was my sisters brain was so fried, coherent thoughts were hard. She just no longer grasped certain concepts. My mom is dealing with her brother’s alcohol induced dementia. The addiction messes with their minds and they can’t process things the same way anymore.

Your first response was almost word for word what I texted to her:
“Yikes! I’m glad you’re home but I wish you’d let us know what’s going on so we can step in and help.

But I will meet you where you’re at: these are your boundaries to draw! Love you.”

This sucks. She’s a completely unreliable narrator, even when she is sober. It’s hard to tell fact from fiction and it’s hard to know whether I should even try.

I very much appreciate all the responses.

Just want to clarify that she’s not the one who needs to draw the boundaries. You are. How much are you willing to let her lie to you? Draw your boundaries and stick to them. You’ll both feel better and maybe she will get sober or maybe she won’t. Nothing you do will change her path. NOTHING.

[wildrice]

I don't know what the right answer is. I know with my sister's eating disorder (which is basically another form of addiction) she asked us a long time ago never to comment on her eating habits or ask her about her recovery because she knew she had a problem and that pushing her on it wasn't going to do anything to make her change, it would just upset her. She told us she would let us know if she ever wanted our support. Frankly, although we all followed that advice, I think it definitely damaged my relationship with her because I never felt as though we could be authentic with each other when I could clearly see her engaging in behaviors I knew were disordered but wasn't allowed to say anything. But, since she did put up clear boundaries it seemed like she was probably right that pushing her wasn't going to actually DO anything. The sad irony here is that she recently for (probably?) unrelated reasons she lost her ability to eat anything at all, probably permanently, so that problem ended up solving itself. But I may never know if that was the right course of action.

Anyway, how would you feel about asking her about the level of support and interference she wants from you? If she's truly trying to recover, she might want that accountability. If not at least you'll know. I assume you've done the usual interventions and such already and you're at a point where they aren't going to be additionally helpful unless she is in that place herself - if not my thoughts are probably not as applicable.

[mysteriouswife]

I will also echo those who have lost a loved one. This disease is terrible. There is no easy way. We watched my SFIL waste away until he died. His death certificate says “adult failure to thrive, malnutrition, alcoholism”

Those words didn’t even phase MIL. In fact she drank more shortly after he died. She has slowed down again. I am waiting on the day we get the call she didn’t show up to work or she was found somewhere. Thankfully she doesn’t drive when drinking. She will die of a stroke or heart attack. She thinks “being fat” is what causes those things. I bet she weighs less than 100 lbs. she drinks her dinner

[Leeham Rimes]

I certainly don’t know what the right answer is, but honestly there probably isn’t one. All I know is—in my experience you can’t reason with an alcoholic. They are professional reality escapers. They’ll use whatever they can, lies, manipulation, gas lighting, to avoid the truth. And once they get really bad, their brain starts to die, slowly but surely.

My answer was going low contact and then finally no contact with my father. I was NC when he died from his alcoholism. No amount of nice love, tough love and everything in between made any difference.. He was just broken and couldn’t even fathom getting help.. Everyone was too worried about fault and blame. “It’s not your father’s fault he’s an alcoholic”. And of course it’s not. But it is his responsibility to try and be as healthy as possible and he just couldn’t. Just like it’s not my fault that I have a host of mental health problems but it is my responsibility to try, every day, to get better/feel better/make better choices.

Anyway. I’m sorry you’re here. It’s a horrible horrible place to be.

ETA: for my situation, there was no meeting my dad where he was at bc that was enabling him. And I didn’t want to do it anymore bc it ruined my mental health to try. Just make sure that your support of your family member isn’t at your detriment bc let me tell you, it takes away so much more than you’ll ever understand til it’s too late.

[pinkdutchtulips]

My late xh was an addict. He tried recovery then tried to make me responsible for it. It was the final straw bc I filed for divorce shortly thereafter. Before I left though, it was hard to reason with him bc of his drug of choice (meth) and when he did have a lucid moment, I told him that I hoped someday he would get better. This was a message I continued with when he was in rehab and post rehab. He relapsed and that was it. To protect myself and Miss R, I had a restraining order.

J's mom is an alcoholic. He keeps his distance. They have a very strained relationship bc of this. It kills him every time she relapses. He'll always be there for her and still love her but it's from a distance bc he doesn't want to get hurt by her again. He'll invite her to L's baseball games, concerts, birthdays, etc but when she doesn't show, I can see the hurt.

Another vote for Al-Anon. I did it for a year or so and it helped ALOT in helping me learn to cope with xh's behavior and give me the emotional tools to leave and NOT go back.

[dancingnancy]

They lie. About everything. The smallest things and the biggest things. And like someone above said they struggle to understand concepts so they easily convince themselves that their lies are truths. I’m so sorry. My mother has been sober for 13 months but drank my entire life. I am so proud of her for getting sober but the long term effects of what she did to herself remain. I got to the point where I barely engaged with her when I knew she was feeding me a line of bull. I’d say “ok” or grunt and end the conversation. You want to call them out on their shit but with an addict you won’t get anywhere ☹️ sending you so much luck.

[rosiebear]

I can’t thank y’all enough. I’m sorry for those who have gone through this or are dealing with it right now. This thread is teaching me a lot.

[meanie]

Not family but a close friend. In my experience an alcoholic will do whatever it takes to get the next drink, and if they are called out they will just change their tactics.

I don't think talking to your sister will do anything but make her change how she is hiding it from you if she is still drinking.

Have you gone to Al-Anon for yourself? You need support through this as well.

[dale]

My father and I are no contact due to his alcoholism. He called me while drunk and told me he wants me out of his life. Almost a year later he called me saying he forgives me. I tried to make it work for my kids to have a grandfather but he called me several times while drunk complaining about how I was raising my kids and that I was ruining them. Then the "get out of my life" call came again. Months later the girlfriend calls trying to guilt trip me for not being there when he was sick with covid and a bunch of other accusations. Then told me I was lying when I told he he's the one who told me to stay away. I hung up. My kids deserve better family than that.

[underwaterrhymes]

I’m so sorry.

Both of my parents are alcoholics. While they are sober now (my dad for 15 years and my mom for 10), they were actively drinking for a huge part of my life.

I can tell you that until she is ready to make a change, there is nothing you can do or say that will make a difference. That’s a hard thing because you think if you just show enough love or come up with the right combination of words, it will make a difference.

I can also tell you, though, that her addiction to substances is not a reflection of how she feels about you. Alcohol is just more powerful right now.

Sending so much love your way. I hope she finds her way out soon.

[tealblue]

I’m so sorry. I went through this about a year ago with a family member. He went to rehab (forced) had massive hallucinations in there, called us with the craziest stories and I tried to support and just say it would work out. Ended up in the hospital and then immediately drank when he got discharged. He would tell us all “my dr said a few beers are good.” “All the drs said I’m healthy” “all my labs were great”. I just said ok… ok ok ok. At first I told him that there’s no way but he just kept circling around about all the dr that said he doesn’t have a problem so it was easier to say ok.

Long story short he sobered up a few times due to police issues, and had seizures and hospitalized. I cut off contact and told him he needs professional help. So much of my mental load was just dealing with him and I had so much going on and knew he wouldn’t change for anything I said. He has been sober for a few months now and I have seen him a few times. We’re cordial. I’m happy he’s sober for his kids but he’s replaced his drinking with 0% NA beer. We will see if he keeps this up, I think it’s too early to tell.

So nothing but support for everyone that’s gone or going through this horrible disease. I think you need to be clear in what your boundaries were. For me I had to cut off contact because he was stressing me out with all the stuff he lied about.

Wishing you the best and it sounds like we might need a monthly check in for those with family in the situation.

[letsgetweird]

Idk what I would do in that situation. I'd feel compelled to call her out on her lie but I don't think that is the best option.


My alcoholic brother moved in with me almost 3 months ago. It became apparent he was an alcoholic when his wife died 2 years ago but he confided in me that he had long been an alcoholic. I have an estranged brother that's an addict as well.

[letsgetweird]

Sept 22, 2023 16:02:04 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

My younger brother recently died of a heart attack that his heavy drinking certainly contributed to, if not caused. He was not honest with anyone and I don't know that anything could have been done to change the path. I'm really sorry for everyone that is going through this.

I'm so sorry for your loss