another post about maybe splitting up

[mpc]

I am the girl who tried to leave her husband twice last year, but gave in both times when he begged me to stay and keep working on it. I've been conflicted lately because everything has been relatively pleasant at home, but I think we have become adept at avoiding things that will cause conflict. I walk on eggshells and don't speak up for myself. He has stepped up what he does around the house, but I still feel like I shoulder the majority.

I've recently started taking some baby steps of speaking up for myself, just to see what would happen, and it has sparked some major anger every time. I am too critical, I need to give him the benefit of the doubt, I am manipulating him. I'm realizing (again) that I cannot say anything without him getting defensive and I don't really want to live with that forever. (He says being defensive is part of his personality so he can't change it.)

Can he smell it or something, that I am getting back to a place of us being done? Because yesterday he emails me about this relationship podcast he's been listening to and all these thoughts about our relationship and how to heal it. He wants us to read books together and have weekly lunches to really talk about who we each are deep down and together. And I ask myself, if he is really wanting to try, doesn't that mean I should too? Put my plans on hold and try to open up again? If he wants to try and I am the one who says nope and walks away, does that mean I am the one failing our kids? In my head I think I know that isn't true, but I still have trouble believing it. 

FWIW, when I tried to leave before, he didn't beg me to stay with overtures about how much he loves me. It was mostly about how I was the one giving up and failing and he thought I was better than that. I was the one who had ruined our relationship in the first place and I needed to do the work to fix it. It sounds ridiculous to me when I type it out, but it really got to me at the time. I guess I wanted to walk away knowing it wasn't "my fault", but maybe fault isn't the way to think about all this. I feel like I have lost all perspective. I don't know up from down anymore. 

I  don't really have a question, just needed to talk it out. Thanks for listening. 

[followyourarrow]

Sending you good thoughts. It's ok to be done. I promise being done doesn't mean failing your kids.

[waverly]

I think you know deep down that you need to leave. Several red flags in your post. You thought about it twice last year and once this year. You can't speak up for yourself on seemingly any topic or else he gets angry. He has no plans to change his anger.

I feel like there is a bit of gaslighting there, "you ruined the relationship and need to fix it".

I don't think "fault" has anything to do with this. If you can't be yourself in your own home, where can you be yourself? When are you allowed to be your own person instead of walking on eggshells?  

[rhian]

I can relate to the feeling of wanting to know that you've tried your best to make the relationship work - but it sounds like you have given it two solid tries after considering leaving. It is okay to be done this time, even if he says he wants to work on it. It doesn't mean you didn't try to make the marriage work.

You're not failing your kids by leaving a relationship that isn't working and where you have to walk on eggshells. It will be better for them to see you divorced and happy and able to be yourself rather than married but miserable. You are teaching them what healthy and unhealthy relationships look like.

[scm1011]

Feb 1, 2024 15:46:15 GMT -5 rhian said:

You're not failing your kids by leaving a relationship that isn't working and where you have to walk on eggshells. It will be better for them to see you divorced and happy and able to be yourself rather than married but miserable. You are teaching them what healthy and unhealthy relationships look like.

QFT

You've been unhappy for a long time and it's okay to be done. You don't have to check some boxes to feel like you earned the right to leave. I promise your kids will be ok and you absolutely deserve happiness. 

[noodleoo]

Life is too short to care about whose fault it is. Like if you are unhappy, does it really matter if it is your fault the marriage fails? Is it a success if you stay and suffer and are unhappy?

I’m not saying if you leave it is your fault AT ALL. From what you’ve posted it sounds like he’s manipulating you and no marriage or divorce is any one persons fault anyway. But I sense that you fear the guilt that comes with choosing to leave and I’m trying to show you that your happiness is more important, and maybe you can accept and let go of the guilt (or at least come to point where it doesn’t matter?).

I’m not sure that make any sense but really, life is too short to walk on eggshells every day.

[cville]

You've tried enough. If you're done trying, then you're done.

[Susie]

I am hearing a lot of manipulation in your description, but it's not you manipulating him, it's the other way around.  

It's ok to decide this is not a healthy marriage and relationship, and that you are accordingly ending it.  That isn't "giving up" or "failing" or falling short of something you should be "better" at, or do more for.  That's you deciding that this is not what's best for you.  

Third time's the charm.  <3

[stemmie]

I don't know if you're "better than that", but you are certainly worth doing whatever it is you need to do to be your authentic self.

IME, when you're done, you're done. I left my ex-DH. At the time, I had no idea about his infidelities, but the marriage wasn't healthy for me in ways I couldn't articulate then. I needed out. He and others wanted me to try counseling, but that would have been dishonest-- I was already checked out.

A few people called me a quitter. Him, a few folks I worked with and even my dad who hated ex-DH. Being the quitter of something that doesn't bring out the best of who you are is not a bad thing whether it's a mediocre relationship or drinking.

[cville]

Also. Absent some clear, specific behavior (abuse, serious crimes, being a Nickleback superfan) there's always plenty of fault to be shared in every relationship, whether or not it's happy or not or continues or not. It's the reddest of red flags to me when someone wants to hash out who was "more" the reason things did not work. That's some blame shifting controlling bullshit.

And I'm a lawyer who loves making things someone else's fault.

[bears]

Feb 1, 2024 16:09:28 GMT -5 cville said:

You've tried enough. If you're done trying, then you're done.

This.

People talk about how relationships are work. Which, sure... But they aren't all work--there should be joy in there as well.

The vibe I'm getting from you is that you're seeing it as a slog and all work. If that's the case, I think you'd be much better off being done.

[gummy]

Therapy therapy therapy. For you, alone, at a minimum. It'll help you find your voice and confidence, I promise. You know what you want. No one wants to live walking on eggshells and that'll never change unless he does really hard work, solely on himself.

[sugarbear1]

Feb 1, 2024 15:46:15 GMT -5 rhian said:

You're not failing your kids by leaving a relationship that isn't working and where you have to walk on eggshells. It will be better for them to see you divorced and happy and able to be yourself rather than married but miserable. You are teaching them what healthy and unhealthy relationships look like.

Please read this again and again and again, as often as you need to.

I read this posts on ML for years before I understood that the only reason I needed to leave, was that I deserved to be happy. That's it. I was NOT happy, I wanted to be happy, I took the steps to make that happen, and my kids and I are better off for it.

[sparkythelawyer]

Feb 1, 2024 15:34:08 GMT -5 mpc said:

FWIW, when I tried to leave before, he didn't beg me to stay with overtures about how much he loves me. It was mostly about how I was the one giving up and failing and he thought I was better than that. I was the one who had ruined our relationship in the first place and I needed to do the work to fix it. It sounds ridiculous to me when I type it out, but it really got to me at the time. I guess I wanted to walk away knowing it wasn't "my fault", but maybe fault isn't the way to think about all this. I feel like I have lost all perspective. I don't know up from down anymore. 

I  don't really have a question, just needed to talk it out. Thanks for listening. 

Yes.  You're the one giving up.  And you know what?  That's ok.  Because life is short.  And you don't have to keep setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

Also, there is a difference between your "fault," and your "choice."  He can spout all day long that "it's your fault."  It's also your choice.  You can choose to be just DONE with this malarkey.  What's the worst thing that happens - he blames you for it?  Says "It's all your fault?"  OH NO.  WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO. Let him whine, complain and cry.  Let him blame. You cannot be responsible for him, you cannot fix him, and you cannot good little girl your way through this.  

Also, what a sad statement about him this all is - he knows you don't want to be there.  He knows you want to be done with him.  Hence the *drama* designed to keep you around.  If he can only keep you via guilt, and he's resorting to guilt, that's horrendous of him.  He needs to get out of your way.  You have a life to live.

Please go find some therapy for yourself.  So that you can make your exit plan.  

You do not need to keep setting yourself on fire to keep him warm.  

[expectantsteelerfan]

I'll repeat it again...it's ok to be done.

[starburst604]

As you may have read, I am in a similarly undecided place, although I have not considered leaving before now. I've gotten so much helpful information on my post, go read if you haven't yet. You know something is wrong here (hint: it's not you), and if you were someone looking into your relationship you'd see it so clearly, but it's so hard when you're in the thick of it. I will also emphasize getting therapy. I'm starting next week and am really counting on it helping me to make decisions about my future. So sorry you're in this position, big hugs.

[mpc]

Feb 1, 2024 16:14:50 GMT -5 gummy said:

Therapy therapy therapy. For you, alone, at a minimum. It'll help you find your voice and confidence, I promise. You know what you want. No one wants to live walking on eggshells and that'll never change unless he does really hard work, solely on himself.

It was my therapist who encouraged me to speak up! She said even if I do stay with him, do I really want to be walking on eggshells for the rest of my life. So things needed to change either way. I think I used to speak up a lot more, I just got tired of all the arguing, so I quit. Then I thought maybe it will go different this time. lol. 

[shopgirl07]

You don’t know up from down anymore because he has gaslighted you into oblivion. Time to go with no regrets, your relationship is seriously unhealthy and damaging.

[penguingrrl]

Good luck. You deserve happiness and your kids deserve seeing a healthy and happy relationship model. What you have now is neither happy nor healthy. My life got so much better when my mom left my dad. She fixed our family.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

What do YOU want?? As other people have said, it's ok to be done, no reason necessary. From what you said, even when you made the decision the first time, he almost guilted you back into it. I'm stuck on the "being defensive is part of his personality" part. He manages to list things that he doesn't like about you and you're supposed to change your behaviors because he doesn't like them, but he's allowed to be defensive because it's just how he is?? No sir.

[livinitup]

He sounds wildly mean and highly manipulative.

[emilyinchile]

There is a difference between giving up because you aren't big enough to face the hard work of improving your relationship and making the decision to walk away because after careful consideration you've realized that the other person isn't big enough to be the partner you need and deserve. You're not giving up here.

[sparkythelawyer]

Feb 1, 2024 16:29:15 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

You don’t know up from down anymore because he has gaslighted you into oblivion. Time to go with no regrets, your relationship is seriously unhealthy and damaging.

I just sat here and pondered:  Is it gaslighted?  gaslit?  Something else? 

Deep thoughts, 2024 edition :-)

[gummy]

Feb 1, 2024 16:28:35 GMT -5 mpc said:

Feb 1, 2024 16:14:50 GMT -5 gummy said:

Therapy therapy therapy. For you, alone, at a minimum. It'll help you find your voice and confidence, I promise. You know what you want. No one wants to live walking on eggshells and that'll never change unless he does really hard work, solely on himself.

It was my therapist who encouraged me to speak up! She said even if I do stay with him, do I really want to be walking on eggshells for the rest of my life. So things needed to change either way. I think I used to speak up a lot more, I just got tired of all the arguing, so I quit. Then I thought maybe it will go different this time. lol. 

Well I'm glad you're already in therapy! I'm sorry you're in this situation, but you know what you want, and it'll be much better on the other side!

[mags]

Tell your therapist you are done with the marriage and have her help you with the steps. Saying it out loud sounds like a small nothing, but it really lifts a weight off your chest.

Get all your financials in order, find a divorce lawyer you can trust, and do all of this without him knowing.

He knows what you are thinking because he is very aware of how he treats you.

[wildrice]

I haaaate all the cultural language around divorce being a failure. I think the true failure is going through life in a situation that is toxic to you and doing nothing to fix it. Sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes we marry the wrong person, and while I would call that a mistake I wouldn't call it a failure - life isn't that black and white, we don't get a pass/fail grade on it. Also to an extent, who gives a fuck if you failed at something that sucks anyway? I had a "failed" marriage and my life has been so much happier, healthier, and I'm able to give more energy and money toward things I care about (and are even good for other people!) since I ended it. My XH was holding me back in so many ways that I never would have imagined could change in the direction that they have.

I really think that when you know you're done, you know you're done. It sounds like you are there. Your H sounds more like he wants to manipulate you into staying than that he actually wants to fix things he is doing to contribute to making you want to stay. Being defensive is part of his personality? Ok, fine, but we can choose to behave in healthier ways if we actually want to. He can choose to approach things in a different way, even if he is feeling defensive. He just doesn't care to.

You deserve a better life than what this marriage is allowing you to experience.

[flygirl]

He is very manipulative, not you from what you’ve written. He can’t say you need to work on things and then turn around and say “this is part of my personality so deal with.”
Having to live with someone who you never know if you’re going to be met with reason or an angry blow up no matter what it’s about sounds like hell and no way to live.

[nuggetbrain]

He has done nothing but feed you shit and has you convinced it's chocolate shakes.

You're done. It's ok to be done. I stayed longer than I should have because I wanted to know walking away that I could tell myself I did everything I could, and it did a number on me that I'm still working through.

Telling you that something is part of his personality and he can't change it is him literally telling you "I do not want to do the work it would take to make myself a better person, so I expect you to just deal with my fuckery because you are my wife."

[mcsangel2]

So basically, your marriage would be happier if only you would change?

Hmmmmmmmm

[W.T.Faulkner]

He’s using the guilt you feel to keep you — a genuine, authentic change wouldn’t have taken this long and wouldn’t involve blaming you. Once you stop feeling guilty and doubting yourself, he’s out of weapons.

He’s like that fake city skyline North Korea puts up at their border — he only wants to look good. Push those cardboard shits and watch them tumble. Fuck his podcast.