Am I in the wrong? DD friendship issues

[rockymtngirl]

I had a really long post with all of the details but I’ll spare you and just ask in generalities.

How involved are you in your kids friendships? Especially if they are older (12+)?
Is it reasonable to reach out to parents of friends when there is conflict to try to facilitate reconciliation?
Is it appropriate to contact the child directly to try to facilitate reconciliation?

Some key factors.
- newer friendship (began this school year)
- other parent was not receptive to being involved


ETA more context

Dd has been friends with a girl for most of the school year. Over the past few weeks dd has stated that they aren’t getting along well. Typical middle school friend stuff. No bullying, some cold shoulder from dd and spending more time with other friends. Friend asked dd what was going on, dd admitted that she was feeling jealous of friend for various reasons, asked for forgiveness, asked to be friends again. Friend said yes but continued to be hot & cold with dd. Most of this was at school with a bit on text (which I have read). Dd has asked numerous times if they are friends and has said sorry. Friend will say it’s okay but later text things like “sorry is just a word” where dd will emphasize that she is trying to prove herself. Rinse and repeat.

Friends mom contacted me last week saying she wants to know where the girls stand and asked me to meet with her to discuss and work on getting girls together. I replied stating that I wanted to stay out of it for the most part and emphasized that I help dd navigate these things on her own by encouraging her to be kind, take accountability for herself and also set her own boundaries. Mom didn’t reply.

Today same dynamic of “yes we’re friends” but ignoring dd. Dd texted asking what was going on. Friend called her and yelled at her for being a bad friend and having other friends, then hung up on her. Dd was crying about this when the mom then phoned her and said that girls had to get together to work things out and asked when dd would come over to their house so she could help them resolve the issue. I was walking our dog during this and came home to dd crying with this mom on the phone.

I called mom and it was the most frustrating experience with her not understanding why i wouldn’t want to be involved or understanding that dd is her own person to make friendship choices. Anytime I would reiterate that I think it’s important for them to use their problem solving skills on their own I was met with “so you’re telling me the friendship is over.”

Overall I find it wild and so inappropriate that mom is involved to this level especially to phone dd directly like that. I re-read DD’s texts and I actually think that mom takes over texting occasionally too. So weird to me and I so badly want dd to just cut ties….but I let her navigate this on her own!

Anyways I feel like I’m crazy and am second guessing if I am out of line here.

[InBetweenDays]

I am really good friends with the moms of the kids DD and DS were friends with at that age. Depending on the situation I would maybe bring it up when I was hanging out with the parents. If I wasn't friends with the parents I probably wouldn't get involved.

I'd never contact the child directly.

[rockymtngirl]

Apr 17, 2024 0:49:57 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

I am really good friends with the moms of the kids DD and DS were friends with at that age. Depending on the situation I would maybe bring it up when I was hanging out with the parents. If I wasn't friends with the parents I probably wouldn't get involved.

I'd never contact the child directly.

Thank you!

[wanderingback]

Well having details would help as there are so many variables, but…

No way would I ever contact a child. Now if I were witness to a situation and a friend was cussing at my kid or something offensive I would certainly say something in the moment.

In regards to contacting parents, no I wouldn’t do that either if it were "normal" kid/teen conflicts. Young people need to learn to work things out themselves. If it were a bullying type situation (or something dangerous or life threatening) and the kids go to the same school then I would alert the school and parents (if I knew them).

[marie]

This is the age where friendships change unfortunately. I have had Moms try to get in the middle when friendships drift apart and it only makes things 10x worse, never better.

[maudefindlay]

That is too much, a major overstep to call your daughter. I'm hands off at that age. When my kids bring up something I will discuss it with them and offer advice. In this situation though I might initiate a conversation about friendships coming and going at this age and what you look for in a friend and if there is so much conflict it's ok to let it go completely or to just acquaintances and no apology needed for that.

[minzy]

Is there something about this other girl that I am missing? Otherwise, the cringe factor seems strong with this situation and my only involvement would likely be encouraging my kid to give a wide berth to these people. I don’t do drama and try to steer my kids away from it, too. Does she have other friends she can pivot towards for awhile instead? I have suggested to both of my girls when they have occasionally encountered friction with peers to “give a little space” to the other person.

I am totally hands off with my 13 year olds friends’ except to know who they are and throw snacks at them when they’re at my house. And I “know” them pretty well from being an old-time room parent, Girl Scout leader, longtime friends or acquaintances with most of their parents, cheering for them for years at their various events/seeing them around our neighborhood, driving them in carpool, etc. I still think in all that time I have almost never unilaterally contacted a kid - just a reply “sounds good, yes” when one of them emailed me about a Girl Scout idea. To do so seems highly inappropriate, especially if it’s meddling in their friendships. I do think, absent bullying or mental health concerns, that they should be able to work a lot of this out on their own, but mostly I’d be encouraging my kid to lean out of the friendship for a bit rather than repeatedly trying to get confirmation it’s still on. I know though that things at this age seem SO IMPORTANT and that it’s tough if not impossible for kids to take a step back and see that it is just a blip in their lives.

[VillainV]

Time to walk away from this mother/daughter. They sound toxic. The daughter wants to hold a transgression against your DD in perpetuity. Your daughter messed up, in a fairly minor way, then apologized for it. If the friend couldn’t accept it she should have said so instead of stringing your daughter along, but it sounds like she enjoys making your daughter grovel. Up to your daughter if she wants to try to salvage the friendship, but I wouldn’t blame her (and I think it would be healthy for her) to walk away from this other girl.

It was wildly inappropriate for the mom to contact her to try to patch things up.

[fernweh]

I am not a parent but I agree with you here. They are definitely old enough to navigate friendships on their own considering there was no bullying or anything major.

It was inappropriate for the mom to call your kid especially. Once you told her you wanted DD to navigate it herself she should have dropped it.

[underwaterrhymes]

We are on the other side of the equation with things with K and his best friend he’s known since kindergarten. It’s been heartbreaking for us because his friend has started hanging out with another child who has been bullying K.

I know the other mother well, but when K asked me to call her, I told K that we cannot ask her to try and force his friend to play with him. K has sobbed in our arms and we just keep telling him he is funny and smart and awesome and we are so sorry.

These are obviously different circumstances because they’ve known each other for ages, but I see some people saying this mom and child are toxic. Although I knew reaching out to the other mom was not the right course of action, it’s really hard seeing your kid grieving a friendship. I think you are right to approach it the way you did, but it may be possible this parent just feels terribly for their child and wants to help them (even though their approach was wrong.)

Oh wait. I just read the mom called your kid. (Tired and don’t have enough coffee.) That is toxic and not okay.

[cjcouple]

I didn't get involved in my kids friends at that age. And I watched as my oldest gravitated away from his best friend at the time and I was actually great friends with his mom. Unfortunately, that ended as well. It's definitely normal for friends to come and go.

That said, given your situation. That mom is way overstepping and I'd definitely help your daughter through this one if it continues into more drama.

You may need to step in with the mom if she contacts dd again and tell her to stop contacting your dd directly. Its inappropriate and if she continues to do that, you both will block their phone numbers. And follow through.

Try not to badmouth the friend if this happens but explain the mother is being completely inappropriate and you think its best at this point to take a break. she can still be school friends or whatever but you don't want her texting for now or going over there etc. Only if the mom continues and doesn't stop after asking.

[cville]

WTAF to the mim calling your kid at all, but then to demand she come over?! for a friend intervention?!

This woman has no proper boundaries. Who the hell knows whar she's teaching her kid. Stay away.

Also, my daughter had a friend like that. Like yoi, we stayed out of it and focused on kindness--to ourselves too. We never said bad stuff about the kid, but we were honest in our reactions to what our girl was telling us (like "oh, wow, that would hurt my feelings if someone said that to me"). We did a lot of coaching about choosing to be with people who make us feel good and challenge us to be better, etc. American Girl has a book about toxic friendships or that addresses toxic friendships and we got that for her. In the interim we set our own boundaries. No sleepovers. No hangouts at the friends house. She didn't have a phone then, but we still have limits on texting because texting is the absolute worst. My mother--not making this up--prayed a novena for my girl to have the courage to stand up for herself.

Eventually, all on her own, my kid dropped the friend. We rejoiced. I still rejoice.

[gummybear]

You are 100% in the right. I learned this the hard way. It’s completely inappropriate for her to contact your daughter and demonstrates a complete lack of boundaries and an unhealthy level of enmeshment with that woman and her daughter. I feel bad for her kid bc she’s really setting her up for problems later in conflict resolution and personal relationships, among other things.

Stick to your guns. If this were me I’d firmly state that I do not involve myself in my child’s relationships and to please refrain from contacting her. I’d also have a long talk with my daughter about healthy conflict resolution and independence. It’s an important conversation as she enters into her teens and adulthood. Unless there’s a safety issue parents needs to stay out.

ETA: I just reread the end of your post. Sigh. My knee jerk reaction is to run far away. I am not one for ultimatums and this is totally kid- dependent but your daughter might need to tell her “friend” she needs space and she’s uncomfortable with how tangled things have gotten. DD1 went through a similar situation and now as an almost 17 yo she’s masterful at identifying this type of thing and extricating/ distancing herself. This is excellent practice.

[jobae1234]

I’d actually be really angry if someone called my kid and put demands on them and made them cry. That’s an abuse of power as an adult.

[mrsukyankee]

What the mom has done is very wrong. She should not be calling a child about this. And developmentally, a pre-teen should be working this out w/o parental involvement (bullying and worse is definitely different). I would have had a hard time not yelling at this mother about it - sounds like she really doesn't understand how over the boundaries this has gone. I'd just let your daughter know that if she wants to talk through all of this, you are there, and that you trust her to make good decisions for herself (and that she doesn't HAVE to keep trying if it feels like it's going nowhere). I'd also let her know that she can always talk to the school counsellor (if one exists) about this as it sounds like the other girl doesn't want your daughter to have other friends and may need some help with understanding how friendships work.

[momof2]

I would text this woman ONE TIME and tell her she is not to contact your daughter again (so you have it in writing).

I would tell my daughter that this mom is wildly inappropriate and that she should avoid this mom.

I would also find a way to get my kid a lot busier, and I would try to encourage her to invite others to hang out. I would not let her go to this kid’s house. If they want to be friends at school — then fine.

This mom is seriously in the wrong here.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I have a 12 year old DD, and I would never contact a child directly about a friendship issue (I won't say never in general, I could see calling one of dd's friends if DD was with them and not answering her phone or something and I needed to get a hold of her, but that's the only example I can think of off the top of my head where it might be appropriate to call them directly).

If I had seen that they were trying to work it out and struggling, and I knew the parents, I might reach out and ask if they were open to getting the girls together in a supervised setting so we could offer some more in-person guidance, but that would only be if DD really wanted me to. I would also do my best to keep my advice only to DD. So yeah, I'd probably be asking your DD whether she thinks this friendship is worth the effort at this point...sorry!

My dd happened to be right here with me so I told her a bit about this (I think it's good for her to hear that other kids her age have friend drama), and her response was BLOCK THEM!)

[deadwing]

Not a parent, but I am very WTF to the other mom calling your child directly and making her cry. That is so far beyond the line.

[krystee]

I don't even understand what the mom is looking for. Your DD IS in contact with her daughter and expressing many times she wants to be friends. What is there to solve besides her daughter’s habit of making your DD grovel?

[mofongo]

As if raising children's isn't hard enough without having to navigate whatever the hell is going on with this woman and her daughter!

Sorry:( she is so out of line.

[abs]

You are definitely not wrong. This is a time where a lot of friendships shift and change. Getting involved and engineering friendships just doesn’t work once they get older. All you can do is listen, give advice, and let the kids work it out. Sometimes working it out means the friendship ends and that is ok, too.

We have been through this. Having a parent ask why your child is no longer friends with theirs is so awkward. Even when it comes from a well meaning place. This is not that. The mom contacting your daughter is way overboard and not appropriate. I would definitely encourage your daughter to nurture other and healthier friendships for now.

[basilosaurus]

I'm aghast. This was so wrong of that mom. I'd probably be biting my tongue not to say what this girl is doing is absolutely not ok because it isn't, but I don't think that's right, either. Maybe some guidance and discussion in what healthy friendships look like. Hot/cold, accepting apologies, but not really, that's a power play.

But I'm not a parent, so what do I know. I just had to respond to the audacity of this woman

[scm1011]

Apr 17, 2024 3:37:18 GMT -5 marie said:

This is the age where friendships change unfortunately. I have had Moms try to get in the middle when friendships drift apart and it only makes things 10x worse, never better.

This happened to me when I was 11/12 and it was totally the final nail in the friendship coffin when a mom got involved and started chastising me for hurting her daughter’s feelings.

That mom was so out of line. And like others said, confused on what she’s looking for since your DD is seemingly trying to make amends already.

[jinkies]

My DD and her longtime bff had a falling out as the beginning of the school year. I have stayed out of it other than to be a sounding board and support DD.

When former bff (who instigated the fight with nasty messages, I screenshotted the texts) decided she wanted to be friends again, the mom reached out to me to push me to have DD respond.

I told her that this is an age where friendships change a lot, and I couldn't force anything. When she texted me again I just said that I would talk to DD but it was her decision.

This is such a hard age. I am also seeing across the board at this age that a lot of girls seem to want the power to make other girls grovel for their friendship. It's so toxic but DD has dealt with it from multiple friends.

You are doing the right thing. I would hold firm with the other mom that are not getting involved and that she is not to contact your daughter again.

[momof2]

Apr 17, 2024 7:05:21 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Apr 17, 2024 3:37:18 GMT -5 marie said:

This is the age where friendships change unfortunately. I have had Moms try to get in the middle when friendships drift apart and it only makes things 10x worse, never better.

This happened to me when I was 11/12 and it was totally the final nail in the friendship coffin when a mom got involved and started chastising me for hurting her daughter’s feelings.

That mom was so out of line. And like others said, confused on what she’s looking for since your DD is seemingly trying to make amends already.

I don’t think this lady is confused. I think she has taught her daughter to be exactly like her. They want someone to martyr themselves over and over by groveling and apologizing. And I would explain that to my daughter to help her decide what she wants to do here. This other kid simply cannot move on because her mom has taught her that not moving on is an appropriate life strategy.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Mom is definitely wrong for calling your DD. I'm also wondering what she plans on talking about at this "intervention" because from what you wrote, it seems like her DD is the one causing the issues. How about talk to your own DD first and then come back with a plan lady. It's a hard lesson for kids to realize that friendships end sometimes, but it is a part of growing up. Just continue to be supportive and she will realize that there are other people out there for her.

[marie]

Apr 17, 2024 7:05:21 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Apr 17, 2024 3:37:18 GMT -5 marie said:

This is the age where friendships change unfortunately. I have had Moms try to get in the middle when friendships drift apart and it only makes things 10x worse, never better.

This happened to me when I was 11/12 and it was totally the final nail in the friendship coffin when a mom got involved and started chastising me for hurting her daughter’s feelings.

That mom was so out of line. And like others said, confused on what she’s looking for since your DD is seemingly trying to make amends already.

Exactly… I would tell DD about the call/text from other Mom and remind her to just always be kind, but it was okay to branch out and spend time with other people. It made my DD even more frustrated about the relationship and definitely hurt it much more than helping

[cmeon]

Ugh, that is so manipulative and awkward. I can't believe she called your kid!

This friendship is going to crash and burn no matter what your daughter does, so let her know it's okay to stop trying (so long as she isn't cruel).

I really hope the child's mother stays out of it, but you may have to be more forceful with her if she doesn't (it is not appropriate to contact my daughter, she has moved on and there is nothing to dicuss).

[meanie]

My DD is 10 and I stay out of it, seems like other parents do as well. I get involved if there is actual bullying going on, but it stays between me and the school, I don't go to the other parents.

Super inappropriate that the other mom talked to your DD directly, the only time I would be ok with that is if something happened right in front of the mom. So weird! 

[dcrunnergirl52]

I am SO angry on your DD's behalf that this mom contacted her. I am typically #breezy but this would put me over the edge, and the mom would be hearing from me.

DD is 13.5 and if this were her, I'd encourage her to step back from the friendship for a while. Mom and daughter both sound overbearing and like not nice people. About 18 months ago, DD had similar trouble with her BFF, who also lives 2 houses down from us so I see her mom a lot. The other mom and I would just comment to each other about how DD and her friend were having trouble and how we both wanted them to work things out on their own. We actually kind of laughed together about it b/c the fights they were having were so petty and we remembered being that age.

The only time I have ever brought something up with other mom was when her daughter gave DD a birthday present and then a card, and the card just said "I HATE YOU" in it, and DD said friend wasn't joking. It was so out of her norm and awful that I did bring that up to the mom.