I'd be really concerned that the mom thought calling your DD directly was okay, that she invited your DD over to talk to HER (!!), and what she was planning to say to your DD if she came over to discuss her daughter's friendship with just herself and her daughter there. WTF?!?
Since the mom is involving herself like this and being wildly inappropriate, I do think you need to get more involved, tell the mom she isn't allowed to contact your DD, and that it would be best if the girls got some distance. Hopefully things will just fizzle if they stop interacting for a while.
Normally I would say kids need to work things out themselves, but since this mom is over involving herself to a concerning level, I think you need to help set a firm boundary with them.
I'd be really concerned that the mom thought calling your DD directly was okay, that she invited your DD over to talk to HER (!!), and what she was planning to say to your DD if she came over to discuss her daughter's friendship with just herself and her daughter there. WTF?!?
Since the mom is involving herself like this and being wildly inappropriate, I do think you need to get more involved, tell the mom she isn't allowed to contact your DD, and that it would be best if the girls got some distance. Hopefully things will just fizzle if they stop interacting for a while.
Normally I would say kids need to work things out themselves, but since this mom is over involving herself to a concerning level, I think you need to help set a firm boundary with them.
I agree with this. My kids friends are his to manage but I would not expect him to manage his friend plus their parent! This lady is so inappropriate!!
Friend called her and yelled at her for being a bad friend and having other friends
This stood out to me. Does this girl not have a lot of other friends? If that's the case, and your DD does - then it makes all of this look even more like game playing and trying to have control over your DD.
I agree w/ what someone said above- talk to your DD. Explain that what the mom did was inappropriate, express concern over some of the behaviors you've seen from the DD. Talk about what being a good friend looks like. None of this is telling your DD what to do, but hopefully through it, she'll start to realize that this other girl isn't being a good friend.
And yes- the mom calling you was wildly inappropriate. The only time I've ever talked to a kid directly was when, in our front yard, there was a ... "fight" isnt' the right word, but Kid A was DSs best friend and Kid B was being mean to DS, but Kid B was also threatened by DS and Kid As friendship. The boys all got upset and Kid A kind of walked away and was crying. I went over to him to talk to him. He actually told me he felt torn between his 2 friends. I tried to gently address that and that he just needs to do what HE feels is right and stand up for what HE feels is right. Then a little later, I called his mom and told her what happened and that I talked to her son in the moment to hopefully calm things down. Just so that she knew the full story!
It's also about acknowledging your DDs feelings. WHich I'm sure you do!! But let her know it's o.k. to be sad, it's o.k. to wish things were different, to (if she really does distance herself from this girl) miss her!
Post by jennistarr1 on Apr 17, 2024 8:17:04 GMT -5
I'm answering what I think I would do ...to be fair, I think what you did is absolutely the right answer
So while yes I agree kids should work it out themselves, if the other mom asked to meet I would probably meet if only to reinforce let's let them work it out
At the point she called your daughter, she crossed a line...and line of which I no longer want my daughter handling it herself, so I would be meeting with them all together and establishing some boundaries.
Post by wanderingback on Apr 17, 2024 8:18:54 GMT -5
Ok I see you gave more details!
Don’t let toxic and/or unhinged people get in your head. Clearly this woman has boundary and helicopter parent issues. Don’t let it affect you and thinking you’re off base. Her behavior is not ok.
I would tell the mom that it’s inappropriate to call your child. I would have DD block her number. That’s a huge overstep IMO.
I let DD work through her friend issues. There has been so much drama in MS. I’m a sounding board for my child but I don’t ever say anything to the other girls. I’m friends with the parents and we all agree to let the kids figure it out (or not) by themselves.
Post by followyourarrow on Apr 17, 2024 8:37:23 GMT -5
The other mom calling your daughter is super inappropriate. I think you need to step in at this point and tell the other mom that she may not contact your daughter again.
The mom reached out to you and you were clear with expecting the kids to mange their own friendship. So, she went around you to make the same demand directly to the child?
Not okay. At all.
That mom pretty much made everything 100x worse. I can only imagine that “mediate” meant she was going to dump all of the blame on your child and force some kind of fake reconciliation. I don’t trust her judgement at all.
My only hope is that someday the girls bond over what a wack job that girl has for a mother.
Holy hell. No, walk away. I would contact mom one time and say “I do not get involved with my daughter’s friendships and trust her to navigate this alone. She is not being unkind — I will step in if it gets to that. You are not to contact her ever again”. That’s absurd.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I have an 11 year old daughter. I stay totally out of her relationships beyond giving advice like “wow, that was unkind. I hope you would never say something like that to someone” or “it sure seems like Marybeth causes a lot of drama.” And asking DD if she thinks this or that friend would like to come over and swim or watch movies or whatever.
Her calling your daughter literally made my jaw drop. I would have Mama Grizzlied the shit out of that situation. And I would call the mom and say “It appears your daughter thinks my daughter isn’t allowed to have other friends, and that is the crux of the issue between them. I would highly recommend you explain to her that she doesn’t own my daughter. My daughter has clearly indicated she is willing to be friends with your daughter. My daughter is not the one who needs to be talked with. You parent your child the way you see fit, but under no circumstances are you to contact my daughter again. Ever. Are we clear?”
Until the part where she called your kid, I was feeling a lot of sympathy for her. I figured her daughter has no other friends, and the mom is probably feeling very panicked at the thought of her daughter being friendless at school. I would have recommended reaching out for a mom-daughter outing like lunch to see the girls interact just to give her and her daughter some comfort that there weren’t hard feelings. At the lunch, you could gently remind the girls that it’s good to have different friends, and an important part of friendship is showing grace when you feel like you’ve been hurt. But once she contacted your kid? Fuck that. Fuck her. Nope.
Friend called her and yelled at her for being a bad friend and having other friends
This stood out to me. Does this girl not have a lot of other friends? If that's the case, and your DD does - then it makes all of this look even more like game playing and trying to have control over your DD.
Ditto this, it was the first thing I thought of while reading this. I had a similar situation when I went from middle to high school, met new people throughout freshman year, and made new friends as I developed new interests. She'd ask me all the time "why do you want to do that? That's dumb." Then get upset when I'd still go to meetings or rehearsals and spend time with people I met there. If I did make plans with her, it was no longer fun to hang out with her because there was always an undercurrent of her being jealous I had other friends and interests. My grandmom had to listen to a lot of "I don't understand why former BFF is being this way, I still want to be friends but I also want to try these new things."
The mom calling your daughter is wildly inappropriate, and I be addressing that with the mom as well as helping your daughter learn to set some firm boundaries with her friend.
1) That mom calling your dd and dressing her down is wildly inappropriate and demonstrates a serious lack of judgement. I would nip that in the bud: she is not to contact your dd again in any way and further communication from her to your daughter will be considered harassment by you.
2) I would have a long talk with your DD. I've had to do this with mine recently. First, not every kid has a parent who is good at navigating relationships and giving advice. It is clear that this other girl doesn't have that. Relationships can be difficult to handle at any age and they are all still learning. To not have good support at home is definitely making things harder for this other girl. Second, if you spend the majority of your time talking about if you are friends and not just actually being friends, you aren't friends. Friendship isn't a bargaining chip. Either get on with the friendship part of it or move on from each other. And talk to her about what she can say/do to pull herself out of this. Third, if you make a minor mistake, apologize sincerely, and the other person chooses to still be offended/refuses to move on, that is on them. They are welcome to sit in it and be miserable but you have handled your side of it and are free to release that from your life. Your dd is not responsible for managing the other girl's emotions.
Oh wow. That other mom was totally out of line. I would contact her once more, not to hash anything out, but to tell her clearly that she is never to contact your daughter again. Wow.
As far as your involvement… I get the desire to let them work things out, but there is a point where friendship drama can grow beyond their level of maturity, and I think this one may be at that point. This friend sounds manipulative and borderline emotionally abusive, and IMO it’s important to teach kids not to tolerate that. So many adult women have a difficult time with that kind of treatment; expecting a kid to be able to handle it on their own is unreasonable IMO. I’d talk with your DD and point out what parts of the friend’s behavior are over the top, and recommend that pulling away further is probably for the best.
I remember how volatile friendships were at that age and I don’t envy the position either of you are in right now. My mom helped me with things like this when I needed it, and IMO your inclination to want to help your DD is the right one. She’s lucky she has you.
I have two 12 yr old girls and the drama never stops so I totally get where you are coming from! We just had a similar situation with one of the girls friends and her Mom texting my girls and myself about everything and wanting to get together to talk about it. The text was pretty harsh and I felt like my kids were getting all the blame. We are close to this family but I made it very clear to her she is never to text my kids like that again without giving me a heads up. I didn't appreciate blind sighted and I would rather deal with them first. But it was a very similar situation where the friend was jealous that DD was spending more time with other friends and then my other DD got dragged into too. The girls ended up getting together on their own and working it out and things have been okay but this past week similar issues starting up again. Ugh
I would encourage your DD to take a step back but also let the friend know why. I would also probably meet with the girls and Mom if she keeps insisting but would put her off as long as you can. It's a hard call to make!
Lurker here, but I have a 16 yr old who attends an all girls school and who spent elementary and middle school in the dance world. The drama is constant and friendships are ever changing. But, this mom and this situation have gone too far. This is where I would be stepping in and making the decision for my child that this friendship is over. I'd block this girl's number from my daughter's phone and I'd let the mom know that she was wildly inappropriate contacting my child and she was never to do so again. And no, they will NOT be friends again. But, I am THAT mom and do not play when it comes to boundary crossing b.s. by adults. Absolutely not.
Post by sandandsea on Apr 17, 2024 10:00:21 GMT -5
I think I’d let the separation happen and try to steer dd towards other friends. Having to ask consistently if we are friends means we aren’t really friends. And having someone constantly ask if we are friends can get annoying too.
I would never contact another child (totally not appropriate) but I would reach out to their parents if it felt like a good mutual friendship, we are family friends, or the kids just needed support in communication or something else. But I’m friendly with most of the parents so it wouldn’t be a huge deal.
I had a really long post with all of the details but I’ll spare you and just ask in generalities.
How involved are you in your kids friendships? Especially if they are older (12+)? Is it reasonable to reach out to parents of friends when there is conflict to try to facilitate reconciliation? Is it appropriate to contact the child directly to try to facilitate reconciliation?
It is extremely inappropriate for the mom to talk to your child. I would let the mom know that, and say they are not to contact your child without your prescence or at all.
1. I've been tempted to reach out to other parents, but I have never done so, and I have been very happy with my decision to show restraint.
2. I don't think it is totally unreasonable, but I think most parents cannot do anything about conflict with their child's friends because it happens at school or at play without the parents present. They are just too old for the parents to be involved except in a coaching situation of their own child.
3. No. I've never tried to facilitate reconciliation because they will need to reconcile on their own.
ETA- I would tell the parent that the kids should take a break from unproductive communication until everyone has a chance to cool down. Then block the numbers.
The other mom calling your kid is a hard no. Not her place.
That said, if a parent reached out to me and said they think things have reached the point where maybe the adults should be involved, I wouldn't say no, especially since this sounds like it all started with the way your DD was treating the other girl. Yes, kids should attempt to navigate friendships on their own but I don't think that means parents should be completely hands off in all circumstances.
I would normally say I would assume a parent reaching out means I don't have the whole story from my kid but her contacting your kid directly makes me question her judgement.
I had this happen to me as a kid! A girl I was friendly with but not besties was a little clingy but fine and invited me to her house.
I went and got bad vibes—she said the door to her bedroom was gone as a punishment for talking back. We were 12. I thought that was super weird and decided to ease back from our friendship and never go to her house again. She invited me a couple more times I just said no. Her MOM called and invited me over and asked why we weren’t hanging out. I told her and she did not like the answer but it solved the problem. I was pleasant to the girl after but knew I made the right decision! I felt sorry for her having a mom like that. From what I heard, they only got messier as we got older.
In this case, I don’t see what your kid did wrong or what she even apologized for or why she said she wanted to “prove herself”. She spent time with other kids because she wasn’t feeling the friendship as much for whatever reason. That’s fine. Trying to force some relationship that isn’t there at the level the other family wants is bizarre.
I can see getting involved if there was bullying or if it was at the point where the girls couldn’t do school work together or something but this is some really boundary lacking drama making for no reason.
I think this detail is at risk of getting buried with everything else going on -
What do we think about the suspicion that the mom is answering AS HER CHILD in the text exchange between the girls?
Do parents do this? I can count three times when I coached my DD on a tricky answer in a text exchange (and one was to answer an adult about a job). And that’s her asking for the help.
I have 12 year old twin girls. I would be PISSED if another parent called my kid, but if another parent had reached out to me and asked to help our kids work through issues I would have been open to that. Sometimes people (not just kids!) need help working through an issue. Yes, they need to take the lead on it, but I would have said to my kid "hey, friend's mom wants us all to get together to work this out. Would that be okay with you?" and followed their lead.
Your kid wants to be friends with this kid, and keeps texting her asking to be friends. The other kid must want to still be friends if the mom is asking you to work things out. So they both want to be friends and can't figure out how to work past this. The four of you getting together doesn't mean solving it for them (and I would make that very clear to the other mom) but leading them and using it as a teaching opportunity to how to work through issues. How can you expect your kid to learn how to work through issues without capitalizing on learning opportunities like this as they come up?
If I were you in this case I would still ask your daughter if she wants the four of you to meet, and also tell her that the other mom never should have contacted you and this is not a family you want her spending a ton of time around (especially at their place!). If she still wants to be her friend I would have a frank conversation with the other mom about boundaries and willingness to meet, but with the caveat that this is their issue to talk out with you two (mostly you, since she clearly has no idea of boundaries) there to guide them.
I am really good friends with the moms of the kids DD and DS were friends with at that age. Depending on the situation I would maybe bring it up when I was hanging out with the parents. If I wasn't friends with the parents I probably wouldn't get involved.
I'd never contact the child directly.
Same. We are a tight knit group and I would never!
This is too much drama for me and I think it’s okay to teach kids that not all “fiends” are worth having and that sometimes you need to back off a relationship. This is a toxic relationship and the cycle of “friends; not friends; someone crying” is going to keep going unless you stop and opt out.
The other mom is wildly inappropriate. I'd put some hard boundaries with her on when/what/how she could contact my child. It seems like the daughter is probably feeding off this behavior.
Moms that get involved in teenage drama drive me up the fucking wall. They're teenagers. They're drama incarnate. Let them blow up friendships and reconcile on their own.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Apr 17, 2024 12:00:31 GMT -5
I generally stay out of Miss R's friend issues unless my opinion is asked for. She has to learn to navigate these things herself. If she wants to vent me that's fine too. We've had some interesting convos based on things she's told me.
I don't contact parents. I don't contact friends. How I would handle something at MY house may be very different from how its handled at another home.
eta: I've had parents contact me in the past about my child's behavior. It goes away really fast in this day and age of screenshots that would show their child started something that pushed mine to do what she did. A parent has contacted my child directly and I put a stop to that ASAP bc this lady texted my daughter at 7a with a string of expletives. I texted her back to never contact my daughter again taking screenshots of the convo then blocking both her and her daughter.
Time to walk away from this mother/daughter. They sound toxic. The daughter wants to hold a transgression against your DD in perpetuity. Your daughter messed up, in a fairly minor way, then apologized for it. If the friend couldn’t accept it she should have said so instead of stringing your daughter along, but it sounds like she enjoys making your daughter grovel. Up to your daughter if she wants to try to salvage the friendship, but I wouldn’t blame her (and I think it would be healthy for her) to walk away from this other girl.
It was wildly inappropriate for the mom to contact her to try to patch things up.
I agree with this. Mom wanted you to get involved? Okay, then, you're getting involved by encouraging your daughter to stay away from hers.
Contacting your kid directly is completely out of line. Suggesting getting the kids together wasn’t out of line. (Not as in ‘we need to make them hash it out and fix this’ but merely offering to host the kids for something fun and leaving it in your/your daughter’s court to accept or not. Sometimes time away from school can reset a kid friendship so if my kid wanted to invite their friend to a movie of something, I’d do it. But the only direct contact my kid has with her friends moms is to coordinate birthday presents - ask if the one she wants to give is okay, ask a shoe size, whatever). What she did is so out of line.
I recently had a mother insert herself in my kid’s social life, but very differently. My kid was starting to develop a new bestie. The mom found out my kid was gender non-conforming rather than born a boy (they present masc and so is their chosen name) and told her kid he was forbidden from associating with my kid. I did send a simple text in case either kid had misunderstood since English is a second language for that family (we’d previously talked about me taking the kids to the science museum. So I threw out a specific invite date. If she said yes, I’d know something had gotten confused. When she responded with ‘he’s busy all afternoons and weekends’ I stopped communication. I certainly didn’t contact the kid. I comforted my kid while they cried and I talked to my kid about who else they could spend time with or alternate recess activities.
I never got involved in my kids friendships beyond giving them advice on how to handle disagreements and be a good friend. We also had discussion about how they could choose their friends and if someone wasn't being nice to them they weren't obligated to continue being friends with them. I was friendly with the other parents but none of us butt in on their dynamics. I would only get involved in a friendship if there was bullying involved or a physical altercation.
I would be livid if some mom called up one of my kids and gave them a hard time about a childish disagreement. I'd give that woman a piece of my mind. Your daughter did something regretful and apologized. The friend can either except the apology and move on or end the friendship. What else is there to do? It sounds like this mom is just feeding the drama. Honestly, I'd probably encourage her to take a step back from this friendship.
This is a good lesson in: "relationship problems shouldn't be discussed over text."
I would block their number from your daughter's phone and let things simmer down.
That mom had no right to reach out to you directly. If she still attempts to get the girls together at this point, and your daughter doesn't want to, I would likely speak with the mom and ask for space. If she finds a way to directly contact your daughter - I would also put my foot down and talk to her about that.
Regarding friend problems - DS is 11 and on occasion parents will talk behind the scenes if there's an issue. I'm not sure there's ever an end point to helping to model / navigate kids through relationship troubles. We have been having a lot of discussions about how friend groups change, people come and go, and how someone can be close to us for a few years, there can be tension, and we can rekindle that friendship or not. I would keep those discussions ongoing.