DD is cutting - help/experiences?

[ddae]

I'm a semi-reg poster (I know, everyone says this) posting under this AE for privacy. I have met many of you IRL and don't want this particular bit of our business 'public' just yet.

This weekend, H saw a mark on DDs (14) arm. Long story short, she is self-harming. She won't tell him with what, but she is cutting herself. She says she has friend(s) that do/have done it and that her life is just too high pressure. She says I am too hard on her re: grades, chores, etc. Basically, her life is too hard.

She doesn't know that I know (I was OOT for a friend's wedding), and I'm waiting to decide how to approach. She has been in therapy before when her dad and I divorced and resented it. I don't want to go that route yet and risk her not being open about this again.

She also has eating issues. Example - today I was at an appointment that ran late and was not here when she got home from school (a rare occurrence). She made herself a snack of about half a package of 1 type of cookie and about 10 of another. On top of this she ate a bunch of chips, pretzels, soda and who knows what else. All in a 45 minute span. She "sneaks" food often. We try to have a good balance of healthy snacks and treats (5 fruits/veggie options for 1 cookie/chip offering). I often found jars of frosting, Nutella, other sugary/fatty things hidden in her room. Meanwhile she eats minimally at dinner and told H that someone at school told her BF she is fat and he lost a friend over her.

I'm sorry this is long. I'm terrified of making the wrong move. Has anyone been there and is willing to share? I feel like I have one chance here and don't want to force her into hiding.
Please help.

[casmgn]

Not what you want to hear, but you need to make appointments with a psychiatrist and a therapist. Look for ones that specialize in teens.

[Deleted]

If it were me, I would start by talking to a therapist about her but without her to make a game plan.

I'm sorry you're all going through this:(

[countthestars]

I'm sorry you are going through this. Are there any online resources for you? Maybe someone here can suggest one. I hope she gets the help she needs.

[Deleted]

she needs to see someone. when she disliked therapy before, did you ask her why? did she not like the therapist? was she just pissed her parents were divorced? just like any other relationship, the individuals in the therapeutic relationship need to click.

if it were my child, I woud want to sit down (with my husband + child) and confront the issue as a family. I would tell her that you've discussed what your h saw and the two of you have determined this issue is one you need outside help with. tell her that you will listen to her input and you want to help her find a therapist she feels comfortable talking to, but the act of going to therapy is non-negotiable. tell her you love her too much to let her down on this. be firm on that.

as an aside on the food issue, she's fourteen which means she can't drive and likely doesn't have an income. if she has regular access to soda, frosting, cookies, and chips (and in large enough quantities that she can take entire containers and hide them in her room) it's because either you or your husband brought all of that into the house. you likely won't see changes in your daughter's eating unless the whole family decides to make changes together.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 19:59:29 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

If it were me, I would start by talking to a therapist about her but without her to make a game plan.

I'm sorry you're all going through this:(

Thank you. I think this is a really good idea, and one I had not considered. I will call someone first thing in the morning.

[midnightmare81]

As someone who has background dealing with cutting, PLEASE do not go out this right away. Let yourself calm down first. She will likely be embarrassed, and feel worse.

Cutting does NOT mean she is suicidal. In fact, suicide is a totally different issue. Cutting is about control. Does she have a lot of pressure on her for things like grades, sports, ect? Does your family as a whole get along well, or is there a lot of disagreements? Does she have any siblings who are excelling while she struggles to keep up? Cutting is the ability to control pain in a world where you feel you have no control over anything else in your life. To get good grades even when you have teachers who give you a hard time and your doing your best or doing well in a sport you just are not good at, often both. The things sound petty, but add together the pressure to get good grades, do well at sports, and probably other kids at school. Its deeper then that, and hard to explain to those who don't understand it.

I am sorry you are going through this, and I am sorry she feels so out of control she feels the need to do this. PLEASE do not even let your mind go to fearing she is suicidal, or that she is mentally ill. I agree she does need help, but she needs to WANT it, and in time she will. When it comes out like that, it often beings the breakdown of the habit. Please feel free to PM me if you have any more questions or need to talk more about it but don't want to talk on a public forum.

[Doggy Mommy]

I also think she needs to go to therapy. Obviously she didn't connect with the first therapist, but if you find the right person, it can make a world of difference. IMO the important thing is to help her understand that you aren't taking her to a therapist to "fix" her. My parents made it clear that they were taking me to a therapist because I was messed up and needed to be "fixed" and obviously that made me feel awful. Make sure she knows that she is going to a therapist to talk, vent, share frustrations, learn coping strategies etc., but not because she is screwed up. I'm not sure if you should offer to have family counseling... on one hand, it might be a good idea for the whole family to talk with a therapist, but on the other hand she might not feel like she trusts the therapist if she knows that he or she is also talking to her parents.

I wouldn't focus on the food issues right now. My non-professional opinion is that she is both cutting and eating out of depression. The depression is the root of the problem and is what needs to be addressed, not just focusing on the symptoms.

[Deleted]

I think YOU talking to someone is an excellent idea. Someone trained in these issues will be able to advise you of the next best steps.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 20:07:34 GMT -5 tacom said:

she needs to see someone. when she disliked therapy before, did you ask her why? did she not like the therapist? was she just pissed her parents were divorced? just like any other relationship, the individuals in the therapeutic relationship need to click.

as an aside on the food issue, she's fourteen which means she can't drive and likely doesn't have an income. if she has regular access to soda, frosting, cookies, and chips (and in large enough quantities that she can take entire containers and hide them in her room) it's because either you or your husband brought all of that into the house. you likely won't see changes in your daughter's eating unless the whole family decides to make changes together.

Thanks for these points. Her issue before was she was fine, didn't need to talk to anyone, didn't think she needed therapy. Her therapist discontinued her treatment because we made no progress.

On the food issues, H and I are in agreement that no more junk will be brought in. I always try and give her some input into the groceries - I usually ask her what she'd like and let her choose 2-3 healthy snacks and one treat. She will bring food home from her dad's and it goes straight to her room, hidden in her overnight bag. Her friends bought her a jar of Nutella for her bday, a teacher (WTF?) bought her a box of Cheez-its. The frosting was bought for a friend's bday cake that I'd planned to make and then didn't. In other words, things I don't even think of are being taken so I don't notice.

It is to the point that I can't buy our boring, all natural peanut butter because she can't just have one tbsp, it has to be all of it. On the very rare ocassion I buy soda, she obsesses over it until it is gone. We buy it maybe twice a year. Normally it is a treat only allowed at restaurants.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 20:11:51 GMT -5 @peggyolson said:

I don't have advice as a parent, but I used to cut myself regularly as a teen. I was really depressed and it was one thing in my life that I felt I could control. My parents tried to force me into therapy and the school insisted on therapy with the school psychiatrist. None of it helped- I just got better at hiding the cuts.

I'm sorry you're going through this but try hard not to push her into being a better liar/hider.

This is what I am scared of. If I force her into hiding and she cuts other places, what then? I will never know.

[midnightmare81]

Jan 15, 2013 20:26:46 GMT -5 ddae said:

Jan 15, 2013 20:11:51 GMT -5 @peggyolson said:

I don't have advice as a parent, but I used to cut myself regularly as a teen. I was really depressed and it was one thing in my life that I felt I could control. My parents tried to force me into therapy and the school insisted on therapy with the school psychiatrist. None of it helped- I just got better at hiding the cuts.

I'm sorry you're going through this but try hard not to push her into being a better liar/hider.

This is what I am scared of. If I force her into hiding and she cuts other places, what then? I will never know.

What PP said. I had the food issues as well. When I was caught, I didn't want to get better. What helped/made me eventually stop was my parents being concerned and actually wanting to help me with the issues. I then decided to go to therapy on my own, seeing my behavior was not fixing things, and in some ways only making them worse. Do you have an idea of what her stress might be from?

[ddae]

I think she is stressed out by my expectations. She has 10-15 minutes of chores about every other day, plus her own laundry. She plays only one sport, by choice. My only expectation there is that she attend games and practices unless she is sick. I expect her to give her school work her best effort, but she knows I value effort over letter grades. She has a huge dependency on electronics, and I will sometimes ask her to let go of the ipod/laptop/TV/phone for a while so I can explain a homework assignment she doesn't understand rather than cry when I don't just give her the answer. When she gets a bad grade or a zero for missed homework, it is always the teacher's fault. She minimizes her own faults in life quite harshly. Everything can be explained away by someone else's shortcomings.

[pugz]

I think talking to someone yourself first is wise. There are therapists that specialize in teen issues such as eating disorders and cutting. It sounds like she may have some kind of binge eating disorder (some people just binge, they don't purge) or it could just be an emotional eating problem.

[lys]

family counseling

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 20:55:27 GMT -5 @gypsy said:

I agree she needs counseling for the cutting.

For the food - I mean I ate like that as a teen (and still do). I like sweets and if I had to eat 5 fruits/veggies to get a cookie I would hide out and eat stuff.
My exH is very weird about food to this day (and his sister is an anorexic) because their mother made it feel very wrong to like junk. I am not saying you are doing that - but if she isn't starving or binging, maybe tackle the cutting first?*
I could be in the minority but I don't have any food issues/eating disorders/binging/purging/anorexia - but I think nothing of eating chips/cookies/whatever in a 45 min period.

I think I worded the 5 fruit/veggie thing wrong. She doesn't have to have any amount of one to get the other, I just try to have 5 good options for 1 not so good. So bananas, oranges, grapes, carrot sticks and string cheese along with a pack of cookies.

Are you saying it's normal to eat that amount of this stuff? It was about 30 cookies total (idk, how many oreos are in a pack? Half of that, plus 10-12 of another kind). In addition, a bowl full of pretzels, a couple sodas and whatever else I didn't see/notice. Maybe I just don't eat a lot?

[ddae]

I should say, also, that the reason I buy cookies, chips, whatever is because I want DD to know that everything is okay in moderation. I don't want to be the parent who controls food so much and demonizes junk, I know that is counterproductive. Just last week DD and I went out for ice cream after school. I just want her to have a healthy relationship with food.

[pugz]

that much junk at once sounds like a binge to me. That's different than just having poor self control and eating a few too many cookies. Going on a food binge can give someone a brief "high" or an escape from stress. Food loves you back, doesn't judge you, doesn't put pressure on you. It's there to comfort you. Unfortunately I speak from experience here.

[pugz]

Jan 15, 2013 21:20:44 GMT -5 ddae said:

I should say, also, that the reason I buy cookies, chips, whatever is because I want DD to know that everything is okay in moderation. I don't want to be the parent who controls food so much and demonizes junk, I know that is counterproductive. Just last week DD and I went out for ice cream after school. I just want her to have a healthy relationship with food.

I think that's a healthy approach. I mean with many things, kids/teens will want want they are told they can't have and will sneak junk. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening here, not eating that much junk in one sitting.

[LoveTrains]

Jan 15, 2013 21:18:25 GMT -5 ddae said:

Jan 15, 2013 20:55:27 GMT -5 @gypsy said:

I could be in the minority but I don't have any food issues/eating disorders/binging/purging/anorexia - but I think nothing of eating chips/cookies/whatever in a 45 min period.

Are you saying it's normal to eat that amount of this stuff? It was about 30 cookies total (idk, how many oreos are in a pack? Half of that, plus 10-12 of another kind). In addition, a bowl full of pretzels, a couple sodas and whatever else I didn't see/notice. Maybe I just don't eat a lot?

No, its not normal to binge on food like that.

If I ate what gypsy is describing I would weigh 100 lbs more than I do right now - which is already obese.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 21:40:30 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

DH is a school counselor and this is an issue he sees a lot. You could check with her schools counseling office for a referral to a therapist experienced with these issues.

It definitely sounds like the food thing needs to be addressed as well.

Jenny - do you know if they are obligated to talk to her if I tell them? Not sure how that works w/r/t required reporting. I have friends who are teachers and they would have to report something like this (or at least it seems that way).

Everyone - thank you so much for your words of support, advice, PMs, everything. I felt so lost and now at least I think I have a starting point. Thanks

[LoveTrains]

We are here for you! *hugs* ddae *hugs*

I hope you can get your DD the help and support she needs.

[Awkward]

Jan 15, 2013 20:11:51 GMT -5 @peggyolson said:

I don't have advice as a parent, but I used to cut myself regularly as a teen. I was really depressed and it was one thing in my life that I felt I could control. My parents tried to force me into therapy and the school insisted on therapy with the school psychiatrist. None of it helped- I just got better at hiding the cuts.

I'm sorry you're going through this but try hard not to push her into being a better liar/hider.

Ok Peggy, I'm sorry you went through this.

But how is this at all helpful? Just let her keep injuring herself and pretend it's not happening? "Nothing worked for me as a teen. Don't do anything" is what I'm getting out of it. Completely unnecessary and counterproductive. :N:

Again, sorry you went through that.

[shopgirl07]

Gosh, this is very concerning. I'm thinking she could be bulimic. Regardless, she needs some help and I think it's a good approach for you to talk to some therapists and come up with a game plan.

[Deleted]

Mandatory reporting varies to some extent by state. Basically, if someone under 18 or a dependent adult is being neglected or abused by a caregiver, people in certain professions/roles in relation to the child/dependent adult are required to report it to the state. I don't think they would have to report this, but I don't know about their guidelines for sharing it amongst themselves at the school.

PP is right that cutting is often not about suicidal thoughts - it can be about control or it can be a way to release pain or even something else. I would recommend is trying to get her to go to therapy and/or going to family therapy. I would also recommend being as calm, open, and nonjudgmental as you can when you talk to her (and find a time that works for both of you to really sit down and talk uninterrupted). Ask open ended questions and really listen to what she says. Don't rush to trying to solve a problem, focus on trying to understand her experience instead. It can be scary for a parent but it's not hopeless.

I don't know that I would even try to address the food issue right now as long as you don't suspect anorexia or bulimia in addition to the binging.

[Deleted]

No offense to the school counselors a but depending on where you are, they can be good or basically curriculum advisors. Her behavior is not normal and I would get her a private psychiatrist who specializes in these issues, STAT. She may hate you now but will be thankful later. And get one for yourself. Tell her you are are really concerned about how she must be in so much pain to hurt herself and in addition to her being in therapy, YOU will get a therapist as well, to help understand and change behaviors that might make things so hard for her. And give her a hug.

You need a specialist here. Midnight and that other poster are making a lot of assumptions about your daughter that may or may not be true. Not helpful.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 22:06:09 GMT -5 @amydm said:

I have been a lurker, I just joined so I could reply to your thread.
Do you think your daughter is purging after her binge? Especially if she has her own bathroom, it is very easy to hide it. She could just turn a radio on during. That would explain the huge amounts of food she is eating. It does not sound like you are putting that much pressure on her- just normal parent stuff. I was bulimic for a year or two, and it started when I was 14. When I was counseling, most parents called when girls were 14-15. That is usually the most difficult time with them.
Cutting is harder. Sometimes I think it is a fad and kids do it because other kids are doing it. However, it can be a sign of Borderline Personality disorder, although you technically can't diagnose it until 18. I would start with the school counselor at least, but in our state we do not do actual therapy.

Thanks for your post. It is helpful to hear things from your point of view. I actually would rather the school counselor does not talk to her, but was hoping she could refer me to someone outside of the school.

I don't thi she is purging. She does have her own bathroom but it is next to our main living area so unless she is waiting until the middle of the night I don't see how. From what I understand, that isn't in the nature of purging.

She mentioned to H that her friend is doing it too, so I also wonder if it was more of an exploratory/fitting in. As far as BPD, she does fit many of the symptoms but I don't know. She can be very manipulative as well, especially emotionally.

Thanks for joining to respond. Stick around!

[Deleted]

I would tell the other parents.

[ddae]

Jan 15, 2013 22:21:38 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

No offense to the school counselors a but depending on where you are, they can be good or basically curriculum advisors. Her behavior is not normal and I would get her a private psychiatrist who specializes in these issues, STAT. She may hate you now but will be thankful later. And get one for yourself. Tell her you are are really concerned about how she must be in so much pain to hurt herself and in addition to her being in therapy, YOU will get a therapist as well, to help understand and change behaviors that might make things so hard for her. And give her a hug.

You need a specialist here. Midnight and that other poster are making a lot of assumptions about your daughter that may or may not be true. Not helpful.

Thanks Spenj, I appreciate your input on this.
As someone in the field, do you have protocol for a ptient that refuses to talk? That is my concern. She shut down last time and the therapist was like "Okay, this isn't productive! Bye!" and then I worry she will turn away from us and become better at hiding things.

My action plan:
Call a therapist for myself tomorrow. Make an appointment.
Have H keep the line of communication open. If she is more comfortable talking to him right now, I am ok with that.
Figure out a course of action (with professional help) and get DD into therapy.

I am hoping I can approach this from tbe perspective of helping me change, rather than 'fixing' her.

As a divorced parent, I struggle with whether to tell her father. He isn't the best with handling parenting, but I feel like he should know. I just wish I could manage his reaction.

[Deleted]

A good therapist would continue to see her to try to build trust.