Moms: NDR Q about kid expenses

[tarheels]

Thanks for playing guys.  I DD'd so all my friend's info isn't out there.  She's still awesome, even if she's really weird about money

[emjacobs]

Is it possible that one of her children has special needs (either medical or dietary)? Do they eat especially clean / organic? Maybe she's super strict about a budget and can't allow herself to stray? Sounds strange to me but I don't have kids.

[tarheels]

Feb 5, 2013 11:30:08 GMT -5 emjacobs said:

Is it possible that one of her children has special needs (either medical or dietary)? Do they eat especially clean / organic? Maybe she's super strict about a budget and can't allow herself to stray? Sounds strange to me but I don't have kids.

Nope, no problems. They do eat green, but I really can't see that bankrupting a $75k salary.

[emjacobs]

Feb 5, 2013 11:34:53 GMT -5 tarheels said:

Feb 5, 2013 11:30:08 GMT -5 emjacobs said:

Is it possible that one of her children has special needs (either medical or dietary)? Do they eat especially clean / organic? Maybe she's super strict about a budget and can't allow herself to stray? Sounds strange to me but I don't have kids.

Nope, no problems. They do eat green, but I really can't see that bankrupting a $75k salary.

Neither can I but given everything else that's the only thing I could see being a higher expense.

Are they religious?  They could be tithing 10% of their income. That added in with 401k contributions, putting money away for kids college funds, etc.  Maybe they are just putting a ton of money in savings?

[sjh722]

Maybe they are super savers, at the expense of everything else? I have a few friends and relatives like that.

But yes, $75k should cover you with kids in lcol, especially if you have good insurance. I have a rough idea of what a lot of our friends/acquaintances make and as long as you're not paying costly medical and spending like crazy, you can more than make ends meet on that income.

[Deleted]

Sometimes, it is hard for people. Like you said though 75K in a low cost of living area should be manageable.

How is there health insurance and does work pay for it? H and I live comfortably and budget accordingly, but we see where health insurance with kids kills people. I shell out just about 10k a year on health insurance for the 3 of us..and it's pretty basic insurance. No frills, no extras.

Some of it is, it's the Martyr Mom thing to do to be honest. It's like the Moms who never seem to find the time to shower. I have a friend with 3 kids and a comfortable life but never buys anything for herself/dresses nice etc. because "It's all for the kids! They "need" the latest, greates and best!"

I try to balance. Fun things for me. Fun things for Rubes. At this point I still come first. Rubes isn't even 2. She doesn't care and need much. Maybe it'll change later, but I'm just selfish enough to take care of me too. I want Rubes to learn about moderation, balance, working hard, taking care of yourself and life isn't about getting everything you want.

I will also say we cut back so we can save for bigger priorities. A trip to disney someday, the college fund, etc. Still doesn't mean we're not getting stuff for ourselves sometimes.

IMO, kids are as expensive as you make them. Sure they cost money, but there's handmedowns to be had and sales everywhere. Some things (carseats, cribs) require the best, the rest doesn't matter so much.

Signed,

Dairy, who's probably going to Mommy Hell and whose child will grow up to lead a deprived little life because mommy likes nice purses and a decorated house.

[ssmjlm]

Our biggest expense will be daycare, coming in just under $1k/month.

Otherwise, even though she's not here yet, I can't imagine her being that expensive day to day. Kids are really simple and they don't need all the latest and greatest (and my house doesn't have the room).

Either she's one who grew up poor and can't get out of the mindset or there some sort of large expense or savings they're doing that she doesn't talk about.

[adhdfashion]

I was going to say medical costs. She might be preparing to pay out two full deductibles? For her and baby after the deliver.
Does she actually cook ? Like from scratch. Because food could really be eating up her budget. Also big old cars take all the gas in the world. Do her kids have lots of activities? That stuff can get really pricey. Everyone spends money differently. Me/shrugs

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 11:52:45 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Our biggest expense will be daycare, coming in just under $1k/month.

Otherwise, even though she's not here yet, I can't imagine her being that expensive day to day. Kids are really simple and they don't need all the latest and greatest (and my house doesn't have the room).

Either she's one who grew up poor and can't get out of the mindset or there some sort of large expense or savings they're doing that she doesn't talk about.

This is true too. Are her kids in daycare? I'm lucky and daycare is affordable here. I pay about $200.00 every two weeks in actual daycare and babysitters. I make enough to cover it, but I see people working full time, lower paying jobs have a hard time making it happen.

And Rubes isn't really that expensive day to day. My biggest cost for her was formula. I didn't buy her much her first year. It's getting a little more now in terms of clothes and certain toys, but that's my choice and something I do for fun not at the expense of other things.

[boiler717]

Could they have to support family? Maybe their parents have high medical costs

[pitterwoo]

maybe they go out to eat? that's one of the fastest ways to spend all your money and have nothing to show for it.

otherwise, well we don't have kids yet so I don't know either.

[Deleted]

It can't be childcare b/c TH said the mom is SAHM. I'll bet one or both of them came from either a poor background or at least had parents who were just cheap and they didn't grow up in a house full of possessions. I find it strange that the house doesn't even have lamps or curtains. They sound like the types who just don't like to spend money. They probably have a ton in savings though.

My beef with someone like this is if you are complaining about how tight your budget is with your current kids, exactly why are you PG with another one?

[emoflamingo]

We live on about that in a pretty LCOL. We have money to buy things, but we don't generally save a lot. H contributes to his 401K but I don't have one. We both have SL debt (H has his in deferment since he is taking classes again), we have one car payment but we have 2 mortgages currently.

It gets tight. Incidentals with kids add up. Diapers, wipes, formula if you don't BF, all of it adds up. Then, when they get into activities, the fees, the required equipment, the extra stuff all add up too. Monkey isn't in any activities but my nephew plays baseball so I see how it adds up quickly for the actual season, new gear every year because he grows out of stuff, the uniform is an extra cost, then there are batting and pitching lessons, tournaments are an added cost, etc.

[sjh722]

Feb 5, 2013 11:54:35 GMT -5 adhdfashion said:

I was going to say medical costs. She might be preparing to pay out two full deductibles? For her and baby after the deliver.
Does she actually cook ? Like from scratch. Because food could really be eating up her budget. Also big old cars take all the gas in the world. Do her kids have lots of activities? That stuff can get really pricey. Everyone spends money differently. Me/shrugs

This is where good insurance is worth its weight in gold, LOL. She said they have good insurance and no medical bills.

This baby is costing us $6K in deductibles and we have decent insurance - but we pay out $$$ per paycheck to insure me, it's tripling when we add a baby, and we have to put $ into an HSA to pay bills. If you don't have all that  money coming out every week, it makes a huge difference in your take-home.

[statlerwaldorf]

The biggest cost for us has been medical related expenses.

Dance is really expensive. We looked into it for DD, but ended up not doing it. There are costume expenses and you have to buy their shoes through the dance company. Plus the monthly expenses. Our gym membership is more expensive because we wanted one with childcare.

Clothes can be expensive. Even a wardrobe from Target can add up fast when you are having to buy new clothes each season. I buy a lot second hand or at the end of the season to save money.

I live in a LCOL area, but housing can be expensive if you live in certain neighborhoods or school districts.

[statlerwaldorf]

I have also spent an obscene amount on infertility treatments. Our health insurance does not have any infertility coverage. I've been pretty open about my infertility issues, but I know many people like to keep that private.

[stephm0188]

She sounds obnoxious.

Different families have different financial priorities. Maybe they have debt. Maybe they stash everything away in savings and retirement. Maybe they put it away for college. Who knows? Those are their choices though, and making comments about how you wont want to buy a $45 pair of shoes once you have kids is just crazy.

As far as our costs go, they vary. Right now, he's cheap. But there was a period of time where we were paying several hundred a month for therapy. Kindergarten is $300 a month, and I'm not looking forward to that expense. It constantly changes.

[SusanBAnthony]

I first read it as vHcol and thought you were crazy.

But yes, I agree with you.

We spend about 500 a month for envy thing except health insurance and medical bills. That is toys, snacks if we are out and about (for example we MUST have popcorn every time we go to target), activities like swim lessons, clothing, and babysitters (no family near by so we spend about 150 on that). And we are not super careful by any means. Could spend half that without too much pain.

There are other costs like furniture and car seats that are a one time thing, and you can spend however much you want one that, depending on if you go hand me down/ thrift store or high end.

eta: things feel tight for us for the main reason that we save 20% for retirement (which we don't consider optional in any way) and about 20% for medical costs.  Then we spend more than average on groceries (which have doubled in cost since having kids, partially due to them eating, and partially due to rising costs).  And we are buying a house at the top of our budget which is obviously totally optional.  I am hoping that our health costs are a little bit more under control going forward, but we will see.

[ktzmoh]

Depends on their ages - diapers can be a big burden, and formula if they are formula feeding. Activities and food and toys all add up - not to mention the gear (car seats swings, cribs etc).

You can do infants cheaply if you cloth diaper and breast feed, but not everyone does. As they get older, preschool costs a lot of money and activities start to add up.

Our biggest expense far and away is childcare, way more than our mortgage. BUt if she's a SAHM then her childcare expenses aren't that high.

The other thing is savings. College is expensive and the amount you have to put away each month to prepare for that is kind of a lot. And kids make it even more important to have a healthy emergency fund - you never know when something will come up with them.

[sailorgray]

It's scary being a SAHM and not bringing in any money. There's also a lot of guilt with it. She shouldn't make those comments, though. It just makes people uncomfortable.

ETA:  My H's employer pays for his health insurance. We are resp. for the rest of us. For our two little boys and me, it's almost $700/month.

[sierramist03]

My SIL is kinda this way. I think it just has to do with choices. If you are choosing to never spend money on your self and only on the kids that's your choice.
My SIL is always commenting on my clothes and jewelry and hair. Sometimes she makes the comment must be nice to not have kids. Yes if we had kids my spending would be scaled back but I'm sure I'd still be buying a few key pieces every season. My SIL is a big saver and all about paying things off as fast as you can.

[april37]

There are so many variables that make this a hard question to answer. Kids can be expensive. For your first kid, there are so many things to buy (crib, mattress, toys, car seat, stroller, etc.). Those things really add up. Obviously you don't have those expenses with additional kids. Diapers are expensive. I breastfed but formula is crazy expensive. Even clothes from Target and Kohls can add up. I was able to buy baby clothes resale but I find the selection gets worse as kids get older. Plus, if your second kid is a different sex, you pretty much need a whole new wardrobe.

We live in a medium cost of living area but we chose our home according to school district which came with a price tag of $10k/yr for taxes. Not cheap.

Some of the other posters mentioned food. We rarely eat out but, for those who do a lot, it's super expensive. Once I had kids, I stared watching what we eat (virtually no store bought frozen meals) but meat & veggies can get pricey. And we don't even eat organic.

Activities can cost a lot. I've always stuck to REC center classes but I'm sure Gymboree class are expensive. We just started DD in karate and that's $100/month. I couldn't believe it!

We don't have cable and we only pay about $30/month for two cell phones. That's obviously not the norm.

Then there is college savings for the kids. Oh, and if she's a SAHM, her husband is probably taking out retirement savings for both of them which cuts into their take home pay.

[ktzmoh]

I want to add, in defense of new moms out there, that it is REALLY hard to make time and money for yourself when you have young kids. You're hard wired to prioritize the children and take care of the kids before yourself. Even if the choice is something not necessary like a zoo membership for the kids versus haircut for yourself - it's VERY hard to choose haircut.

I didn't buy new clothes for years after the kids were born because money was much tighter than before, we prioritized them and (frankly) I found it depressing to buy clothes for my post-baby body. I'm sure that I bitched about how expensive clothes are when the real reason was some mix of 'i hate that I am not buying size 4 jeans anymore' and 'the kids need xyz right now so I don't have $50 for new jeans, certainly not $150 for the jeans I really want'

And I spent the entire first year of my life with both kids living in sweat clothes and pony tails. You just aren't sleeping, your life is upside down, you may have a touch of depression and it's not always easy to find a half hour in the morning to shower and put make up on.

[sratsey]

The incidentals that come with babies tapers off after they're out of baby stage and then other expenses come into play.
I'm going to guess that it's school and activities.

Preschool, if it's not free can run anywhere from $200/month to $900/month.
We were jumping up and down when my son started public Kindergarten.
Right now I'm paying $200/month for DDs preschool  and now my son is in various activities that tend to suck up all sorts of disposable income.
Both my kids take Taekwondo $200/month.
My son take piano lessons $100/month
If DD decides to start either gymnastics of dance that will be another $100/month...I keep pushing her off those ideas because I already feel like a taxi cab half the time.
Football is $300 for the 4 month season Aug-Nov.  Lacrosse is $250 for the 4 month season March-June...so that's just shy of another $70/month for those.
So I spent about $600/month on preschool and extra-curricular activities.

We eat out 1-2x week as a family.  That's about $60-$120...so there's another $500

Those are the only things which are regular expenses with my kids.  $1100/month

I budget a clothing allowance for both of them 3x/year.  Back to School/Spring/Summer
When my son was little I was really spendy and bought him clothes ALL.THE.TIME.  I've come a long way since then, but at my peak, I was spending $500/month on baby/toddler clothing. 

Mind you, NONE of the above is necessary and most of it is indulgent.  But when you have kids, it's really hard to not spend money on them.  My daughter has better shoes than I do.
Her comment was still snarky.  It's not your fault she can't afford $45 shoes.

[sratsey]

Feb 5, 2013 13:27:19 GMT -5 ktzmoh said:

I want to add, in defense of new moms out there, that it is REALLY hard to make time and money for yourself when you have young kids. You're hard wired to prioritize the children and take care of the kids before yourself. Even if the choice is something not necessary like a zoo membership for the kids versus haircut for yourself - it's VERY hard to choose haircut.

I agree with this as well. 
Even if we're putting money into retirement and college funds I still find it very difficult to splurge on myself with any regularity.  I feel a lot of guilt when I take money away from what could go into my home or my kids and spend it solely on myself.

[Deleted]

All of this makes me glad I live in area where classes are like $40.00 for an 8 week session at the local school run ECFE.

I don't know a single kid wrapped up in 1K dance fees, $400.00 tutoring sessions etc. The school here has a $100.00 fee per year for all the seasonal activities you can join and a summer of Community Ed. is $50.00.

Sometimes, while my simple little area can drag, there are perks.

And maybe I need more of a guilty conscience. I just don't. We're all happy and healthy and I believe in taking care of everyone. Sometimes my kids are first sometimes H, sometimes me. It's all about balance. And like I said above I really don't want my kids to have the "ME ME ME FIRST FIRST ALWAYS" attitude. Someday my kids wil be grown and gone and then where do I start because I forgot all about me and the things I love and want to accomplish. It's about give and take around here.

I do understand all sides of the stories posted for sure and it's definitely hard.

[tarheels]

DD'd for privacy.

[sratsey]

She's probably spending a crap ton on clothes and toys for her little ones. LOL

[Deleted]

THR:

I just read your response!
Is she whittling away money on little things for her kids? Even $8.00 generic toys add up fast and the cash is gone before you know. I know I've really had to watch myself doing that. Now I save cash to get her something good/long term she can play with grow into and try my damndest to cut the junky toys. I buy Rubes $10.00 dresses and sleepers at Sam's and Gymboree because I can and want to. However, I'm fully aware it adds up fast and that'd be the first thing to go if necessary. If we're saving for a big goal I cut back.

From you posted though, sounds like it's just her personality to save, save, save and like I said a bit early a bit mommy martyr.

I hear you on the 75K as well. That's big money here. I know people who make half that here and still manage just fine without extreme deprivation.

[sjh722]

Feb 5, 2013 14:02:11 GMT -5 tarheels said:

And yall, $75k is BIG MONEY here. ILs are of course in their 60s and have been working all their lives and their combined household income is less than that after 40 years climbing their respective work ladders. You can buy a nice 2500 sq ft house on a couple acres in the country for $80k.

I think I live in LCOL, then someone posts house prices like this.