Drunk driving

[audette]

Jun 3, 2012 15:41:38 GMT -5 beans said:

Maybe I'm in the minority here. But I'm thinking "who are these people hanging out with?" I can't ever recall being in a situation with friends when someone was too tipsy to drive insisting they should drive anyway or me needing to flat out refuse to be a passenger in a car with someone like that. And I have had quite a few different circle of friends between hs, college, post college, grad school, and living at two different bases. Like, everyone I've gone drinking with finds it completely reasonable to have a DD or get a cab, or if everyone wants to drink we stay at someone's home. This is something we talk about ahead of time. I mean, yeah I get that it happens but is my experience really all that outside the norm? And when I was a freshman my college was the number one party school in America! I'm also more than happy to play dd whenever... I'm more than happy to be sober to ensure people (myself included) get home safe - not saying anyone here isnt.

Well, at DH's last dining in, some dumbass senior put booze into the alcohol-free grog. Tradition, apparently. So anyone who _wanted_ to have an alcohol free night of it had to somehow get out of drinking _any_ of the grog (damn near impossible, I'm guessing, from the dining out's that I have seen).


I've been to countless military events where people were drinking more than 1 drink an hour and driving home after. Even with an offered ride home (from me... I saw friends doing this).


It's something I feel pretty strongly about, because it is so simple to avoid the risk, and the risk is _massive_. I know, some folks can handle a drink or two, but one or two easily turns into more, especially if someone else is serving. You never know if someone serving is a heavy pour or not, or if the "servings" are standard size servings.

And, in the face of peer pressure to drink, it's easier to just say "I'm DD, no booze", than to say "I'm DD, I've already had the two drinks I'm allowed". If people see someone drinking, they'll assume they can continue drinking. It's just easier to avoid someone putting alcohol in your hand if you avoid it entirely on the DD nights.

Finally, like a pp said. .08 might be the legal limit, but regardless of the number showing on a test, you can still be a risk with less alcohol. By the time you realize you are impaired, you generally are way past the point of being safe on the road, too. Get pulled over? It's a lot easier to say "no officer, I have had no alcohol this evening", than to say "I had two drinks with supper, but that was over an hour ago".

[iluvmytxrgr]

When my cousin was 3, his mom went out to get milk one night. We know what happened next because a family friend witnessed it. She saw a car swerving in the road and pulled off the road into the parking lot of the dealership where my grandpa worked. The other car stopped, revved the engine and kicked it in gear. They ran up on the hood of her car, decapitating her and leaving my cousin with out a mother. The driver had been sitting at a bar drinking for more than 6 hours. They thought it would be funny to scare her but didn't hit the breaks or turn in time.
A very good friend of mine nearly died in HS from Anorexia. When she got to 88lbs at 17 years old, we confronted her parents, doctors. She got help. She got better. Two years later, she was driving home from college for the weekend and was killed by a drunk driver who ran her off a road and into a culvert.
While in college, my brother's best friend decided to go on a beer run. He thought he was just a little buzzed. Two miles into the three mile drive, he passed out and crashed into a tree. His car caught fire and he burned up in it before the fire department got to him on the country road. My brother found him and still has nightmares about it 10 years later.
Drinking and driving is not ok. I don't care how old you are or how stupid you are.

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 18:23:58 GMT -5 audette said:

Jun 3, 2012 15:41:38 GMT -5 beans said:

Maybe I'm in the minority here. But I'm thinking "who are these people hanging out with?" I can't ever recall being in a situation with friends when someone was too tipsy to drive insisting they should drive anyway or me needing to flat out refuse to be a passenger in a car with someone like that. And I have had quite a few different circle of friends between hs, college, post college, grad school, and living at two different bases. Like, everyone I've gone drinking with finds it completely reasonable to have a DD or get a cab, or if everyone wants to drink we stay at someone's home. This is something we talk about ahead of time. I mean, yeah I get that it happens but is my experience really all that outside the norm? And when I was a freshman my college was the number one party school in America! I'm also more than happy to play dd whenever... I'm more than happy to be sober to ensure people (myself included) get home safe - not saying anyone here isnt.

Well, at DH's last dining in, some dumbass senior put booze into the alcohol-free grog. Tradition, apparently. So anyone who _wanted_ to have an alcohol free night of it had to somehow get out of drinking _any_ of the grog (damn near impossible, I'm guessing, from the dining out's that I have seen).


I've been to countless military events where people were drinking more than 1 drink an hour and driving home after. Even with an offered ride home (from me... I saw friends doing this).


It's something I feel pretty strongly about, because it is so simple to avoid the risk, and the risk is _massive_. I know, some folks can handle a drink or two, but one or two easily turns into more, especially if someone else is serving. You never know if someone serving is a heavy pour or not, or if the "servings" are standard size servings.

And, in the face of peer pressure to drink, it's easier to just say "I'm DD, no booze", than to say "I'm DD, I've already had the two drinks I'm allowed". If people see someone drinking, they'll assume they can continue drinking. It's just easier to avoid someone putting alcohol in your hand if you avoid it entirely on the DD nights.

Finally, like a pp said. .08 might be the legal limit, but regardless of the number showing on a test, you can still be a risk with less alcohol. By the time you realize you are impaired, you generally are way past the point of being safe on the road, too. Get pulled over? It's a lot easier to say "no officer, I have had no alcohol this evening", than to say "I had two drinks with supper, but that was over an hour ago".

Well according to police officers you are never supposed to admit you've had anything to drink if you get pulled over.

I am well aware of what constitutes a serving size of which type of alcohol, and that when you are out you can't guarantee what you are getting unless you limit yourself to bottled beer only. But from taste I can usually tell when a drink has a heavy pour in it. I'm not saying I use that as a judge, but in general it's usually pretty easy to tell when drinks are stronger.

Honestly, I'm not a hawk about how much H or I drink if we're driving. We both know the huge risks for each of us if we were to get a DUI or DWI, and aren't willing to take those risks. We hardly ever go out, and when we do we are smart about it. But we will have a couple drinks even if we are driving.

Also, I think the argument of saying it's easier to deny alcohol as the driver by not having any at all as compared to drinking a few is ridiculous. I'm a fucking adult, and nobody is going to force me into drinking if i don't want to or because I'm drinking. Whether I say it's because I'm driving, I don't feel good, I have an early morning, I'm pregnant or whatever reason it is, that's my decision and anyone who doesn't respect that is an asshole.

[ilovelamp]

Drunk driving is never okay, and I wish punishments were more severe. Here in the state I'm in, they just passed a law that if a teenager gets in a car accident during their first year of having a permit, they get their license taken away for a year. Why can't dd laws be that serious?

Ggirl that story is ridiculous.

[sookie]

Jun 3, 2012 11:40:21 GMT -5 verycontrary247 said:

I am against drunk driving, but I think some of you are going overboard. Only 2 drinks no matter how long you're there?

This is how we are. For us, it just sets a limit to where there's no excuses or "well, maybe just one more." We usually trade off too on who's DDing and who's drinking. I have a fairly high tolerance for alcohol , but even I do the 2 drink rule. You don't NEED to have 6 drinks in 3 hours or however long you'll be somewhere.

[sookie]

As far as our friends, we all have spare bedrooms for the most part, and we usually drink in someone's house. If you come to my house and drink too much, we will take your keys, call your spouse/SO/roommate if they aren't with you and give them the option to come get you. Otherwise, you're sleeping in our spare room/our couch/whatever and then you can go home in the morning. We aren't going to be responsible or deal with you leaving and killing someone.

[ilovelamp]

Jun 3, 2012 18:49:41 GMT -5 sookie said:

As far as our friends, we all have spare bedrooms for the most part, and we usually drink in someone's house. If you come to my house and drink too much, we will take your keys, call your spouse/SO/roommate if they aren't with you and give them the option to come get you. Otherwise, you're sleeping in our spare room/our couch/whatever and then you can go home in the morning. We aren't going to be responsible or deal with you leaving and killing someone.

Same here. I may not be able to stop someone at the bar, but if you are drinking at our house you aren't driving.

[bigmamma]

It is pathetic to think that a grown adult couldn't go out without having anything to drink. When I go out and I am driving. I have a coke. Seriously.

Is it that necessary to have a drink? I think water counts as a drink. Don't be a jackass.

Besides... if you want to drink you are allowed to call a cab if you can't afford that you probably shouldn't be drinking.

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 19:57:24 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

It is pathetic to think that a grown adult couldn't go out without having anything to drink. When I go out and I am driving. I have a coke. Seriously.

Is it that necessary to have a drink? I think water counts as a drink. Don't be a jackass.

Besides... if you want to drink you are allowed to call a cab if you can't afford that you probably shouldn't be drinking.

So people should call a cab every single time they have one drink? That's ridiculous. If you want to do that then knock yourself out. But the fact that I think it's stupid doesn't mean I can't afford it or shouldn't be drinking.

[iluvmytxrgr]

Jun 3, 2012 19:57:24 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

It is pathetic to think that a grown adult couldn't go out without having anything to drink. When I go out and I am driving. I have a coke. Seriously.

Is it that necessary to have a drink? I think water counts as a drink. Don't be a jackass.

Besides... if you want to drink you are allowed to call a cab if you can't afford that you probably shouldn't be drinking.

I agree. If J and I go out, one of us drinks and the other doesn't drink at all. It's not a hard thing to do. If someone asks, I say I'm driving. Adults understand that. If it is an occasion like ball or a wedding or party, we get a cab or a hotel. It isn't that hard. Like you said, if you don't have the money for it, you shouldn't be drinking.

[iluvmytxrgr]

Jun 3, 2012 20:17:18 GMT -5 beachy said:

Jun 3, 2012 19:57:24 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

It is pathetic to think that a grown adult couldn't go out without having anything to drink. When I go out and I am driving. I have a coke. Seriously.

Is it that necessary to have a drink? I think water counts as a drink. Don't be a jackass.

Besides... if you want to drink you are allowed to call a cab if you can't afford that you probably shouldn't be drinking.

So people should call a cab every single time they have one drink? That's ridiculous. If you want to do that then knock yourself out. But the fact that I think it's stupid doesn't mean I can't afford it or shouldn't be drinking.

That's not what she said. You are completely missing it.

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 20:24:42 GMT -5 iluvmytxrgr said:

Jun 3, 2012 20:17:18 GMT -5 beachy said:

So people should call a cab every single time they have one drink? That's ridiculous. If you want to do that then knock yourself out. But the fact that I think it's stupid doesn't mean I can't afford it or shouldn't be drinking.

That's not what she said. You are completely missing it.

I agree that if you aren't going to have a DD then you should pay for a cab, absolutely. And yes, if you can't afford that then you shouldn't be going out .

But when that followed posts about not having a single drink at all when driving and saying you should drink water or coke also implies that she thinks if you have anything at all to drink then you should take a cab. Like I said, if people want to do that fine, but I don't think it makes someone an asshole or immature if they don't do that while completely following the law.

I'm not trying to be an ass, and I'm sorry for all the tragedies you have dealt with TX. I fully understand why you have the feelings you have about it. I'm not saying that I go out and get hammered and drive. If I'm driving when we go out and are out for a few hours I will most likely have a couple drinks throughout the night. I know when I am at my limit to drive, and usually don't ever have a drink within the last hour before leaving. H and I have taken cabs many times, and when we are close we have walked. But I will never be on board with the mentality that everyone is an asshole if they have a drop of alcohol when they are going to drive.

[basilosaurus]

I'm with beachy. Sure I can refrain from drinking entirely for a night, but I like wine or beer or mojito and don't see the point in abstaining from that enjoyment. I don't feel it's irresponsible or childish to have a drink with my meal, nor is a lack of desire to abstain proof of alcoholism which is kind of being implied.

I won't have more than 2 drinks, and I won't have anything in the last hour, but if I have a glass of wine with dinner, I'm perfectly ok to drive home afterward. I'm happy to take the bus, cab, or walk if I have more.

[iluvmytxrgr]

It takes, at minimum if you are fully hydrated, for each drink to clear your system. If you are adding on top of drinks, you aren't giving your system time to burn it off, so it takes longer. If you have 3 drinks in 3 hours, you need at least another two hours for the effects of that drink to wear off.
I did a test once. I am 5'4" and weigh 140lbs. It takes me 2 glasses of wine to be over the legal limit to drive. At that point, I barely feel buzzed. I'm really only in that happy and giggly phase.

I'll go out to dinner and have a glass of wine while we wait for our food. When that's gone, I won't drink any more if I'm driving. I eat my dinner, sit and talk. If it hasn't been at least an hour, we walk around for a bit or talk out side the restaurant for a bit longer. Yeah, I'm perfectly fine at that point, but I'd rather not risk anything.

[bigmamma]

Jun 3, 2012 20:17:18 GMT -5 beachy said:

Jun 3, 2012 19:57:24 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

It is pathetic to think that a grown adult couldn't go out without having anything to drink. When I go out and I am driving. I have a coke. Seriously.

Is it that necessary to have a drink? I think water counts as a drink. Don't be a jackass.

Besides... if you want to drink you are allowed to call a cab if you can't afford that you probably shouldn't be drinking.

So people should call a cab every single time they have one drink? That's ridiculous. If you want to do that then knock yourself out. But the fact that I think it's stupid doesn't mean I can't afford it or shouldn't be drinking.

So you think its stupid to call a cab when your drinking, but okay to drink and drive. Hmmm...

The intended statement is have an ACTUAL designated driver. One who actually refrains from drinking and makes sure you can have a good time. I feel like I've hit the rewind button and fell back into high school.

Drinking and Driving? Seriously? I drink this time - You drive. You drink this time - I drive. Is it that hard to refrain for a few hours?

Yes, if you can't afford to call a cab when you've had to much to drink you spent your money on the wrong thing.

[bigmamma]

Jun 3, 2012 20:42:52 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I'm with beachy. Sure I can refrain from drinking entirely for a night, but I like wine or beer or mojito and don't see the point in abstaining from that enjoyment. I don't feel it's irresponsible or childish to have a drink with my meal, nor is a lack of desire to abstain proof of alcoholism which is kind of being implied.

I won't have more than 2 drinks, and I won't have anything in the last hour, but if I have a glass of wine with dinner, I'm perfectly ok to drive home afterward. I'm happy to take the bus, cab, or walk if I have more.

If I'm the DD I don't drink. Period. A cop doesn't give a shit if you stopped drinking in the last hour. If you blow above the limit its black and white. How do you avoid that? Pretty simple. Don't drink that night.

I am NOT against drinking. I have a sweet love affair with mixed drinks, red wine and my husband's sippin' bourbon. I just have a strict hatred of drinking and driving.

[Jam]

I'm not even going to lie about it, I'm in my late 20s and I've driven after two drinks. Sometimes I feel like I'm even more alert than otherwise after a tequila sunrise. I wouldn't risk it if I felt like I was remotely intoxicated. I'd wait it out until I sobered up if I thought I was buzzed.

Even as a DD I've had a drink. I don't think anyone should be driving around if they're drunk, obviously, but everyone has a different tolerance level.

[bigmamma]

Jun 3, 2012 21:21:44 GMT -5 Jam said:

but everyone has a different tolerance level.

I'll agree with you there - I just don't ever feel like drinking if I'm the DD. Almost like the "party's in my head" song. No drinks/drugs required. The voices are enough.

I'll stand by the cab comment. If you can't afford a cab you shouldn't be out drinking without a DD. If your DD is a notorious D-Bag who ends up hammered you still have cab money and don't have to risk killing yourself or someone else because your DD got drunk or bailed with the first piece of ass they met (yes, personal experience has influenced my very strong opinion).

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 21:16:14 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

Jun 3, 2012 20:17:18 GMT -5 beachy said:

So people should call a cab every single time they have one drink? That's ridiculous. If you want to do that then knock yourself out. But the fact that I think it's stupid doesn't mean I can't afford it or shouldn't be drinking.

So you think its stupid to call a cab when your drinking, but okay to drink and drive. Hmmm...

The intended statement is have an ACTUAL designated driver. One who actually refrains from drinking and makes sure you can have a good time. I feel like I've hit the rewind button and fell back into high school.

Drinking and Driving? Seriously? I drink this time - You drive. You drink this time - I drive. Is it that hard to refrain for a few hours?

Yes, if you can't afford to call a cab when you've had to much to drink you spent your money on the wrong thing.

As I said in my next post, I agree with the sentiments about calling a cab and if you're going out drinking you should be able to afford a cab. What I don't agree with is that you should take a cab every single time you've drank even one drink, which is what you're making it sound like.

Also, having one or two drinks doesn't automatically mean you're over the limit. If I'm out for 3-4 hours and had 2 bottles of beer, I'm not going to be above the limit or near it.

[bigmamma]

No, what I am saying is that if you are going out have a designated driver or cab money (always have cab money).

Is it really that hard to imagine going out and not drinking? Not every time, but the one time you agree to be the designated driver. What is the big deal?

Besides, being sober can really assist those with drunken vision or judgement impairment.

[beachy]

H and I always have a plan when we go out. Whether it's one of us is driving, we are walking, taking a cab, calling someone, we always have a plan. I had a wedding to go to when I was just home and one of my friends parents drove us there and my dad came to pick me up.

And there are nights when I don't drink at all. Whether I don't feel good, just don't feel like it, or whatever reason. But generally, when we are out I will have a beer or a drink or a glass of wine. I enjoy drinking, and enjoy the taste of it. I would never just say I'm driving, just give me 2 shots of SoCo and I'll call it a night. I would get something I enjoy the taste of. I don't see why it's that big of a deal to have a couple drinks when I know my tolerance and my limits. I don't weigh 140 pounds, 2 or 3 beers in 4 hours isn't going to touch me.

And no, wanting to have a drink when I'm out with friends or at dinner does not make me an alcoholic, which I feel like you are implying.

[bigmamma]

I don't imply. I state openly. I didn't say or imply anyone was an alcoholic. Don't be so sensitive. I said, Can't people go out for a night, be the DD and not drink?

Is it possible to drive when you've had a few drinks? Yes. Do I personally feel it is a responsible mature action. No. Does that mean YOU - beachy - should feel judged or persecuted because I don't feel its right to drink and drive? No, you do your thing. Drink one or two. No need to find a sponsor or turn yourself in to the nearest check point.

Don't twist words or read into things. At least not when I'm the one writing. I can't speak for anyone else.

I'm just sayin - bring cab money and if you say you'll be the safe DD live up to it.

[audette]

Jun 3, 2012 18:36:28 GMT -5 beachy said:

Well according to police officers you are never supposed to admit you've had anything to drink if you get pulled over.

So, what do you do when the cop asks if you have been drinking? Lie?

It's a fairly simple risk/reward calculation - drink, and enjoy the alcohol, and put yourself at risk of a DWI or DUI. Or, avoid the enjoyment of an alocoholic beverage, and avoid the risk.

The reward is minimal, and barely mars your life to not have it (the alcohol - really, we're all adults, and, hopefully, not addicted to alcohol, so none of us need it for anything more than a bit of enjoyment or enhancement to an evening/meal). The risk is _massive_ - it goes well beyond simply getting caught with alcohol in your system, it includes the various things that can happen because the alcohol impairs your reaction time and your cognitive processes. Even one drink has some impact, although it might be less than what is written as the "legal limit". And by the time you "feel" tipsy, you are _well_ into the range of significant impairment.


So, it comes down to a huge risk for minimal/negligible reward.


It's a calculation that puts me firmly in the no alcohol if driving camp.

[bigmamma]

audette - FTW

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 21:58:13 GMT -5 audette said:

Jun 3, 2012 18:36:28 GMT -5 beachy said:

Well according to police officers you are never supposed to admit you've had anything to drink if you get pulled over.

So, what do you do when the cop asks if you have been drinking? Lie?

It's a fairly simple risk/reward calculation - drink, and enjoy the alcohol, and put yourself at risk of a DWI or DUI. Or, avoid the enjoyment of an alocoholic beverage, and avoid the risk.

The reward is minimal, and barely mars your life to not have it (the alcohol - really, we're all adults, and, hopefully, not addicted to alcohol, so none of us need it for anything more than a bit of enjoyment or enhancement to an evening/meal). The risk is _massive_ - it goes well beyond simply getting caught with alcohol in your system, it includes the various things that can happen because the alcohol impairs your reaction time and your cognitive processes. Even one drink has some impact, although it might be less than what is written as the "legal limit". And by the time you "feel" tipsy, you are _well_ into the range of significant impairment.


So, it comes down to a huge risk for minimal/negligible reward.


It's a calculation that puts me firmly in the no alcohol if driving camp.

According to multiple cop friends, yes. If you say you have been drinking they usually will automatically do tests and/or a breathalyzer. If you say no and/or refuse a breathalyzer they can't do a test until they bring you into the station, if they chose to do that. I'm not saying that that's what I would do, but that is what I've been told you should do.

As for the rest of the stuff, I'm done arguing it. I'm not an idiot. I'm a health teacher and have heard and taught all of this stuff before. So I don't need more lessons on the effect of alcohol on different parts of your body and how it effects your driving. Most people know all of this already.

If you think I'm an asshole because I have a drink or two when I'm out and driving, so be it. Everyone has their own opinions and feelings on the topic, and are going to do what they are comfortable with. Personally I enjoy a good drink or beer and know how to enjoy it while staying within legal limits. You choose to abstain from it. Neither of us are breaking the law.

[bigmamma]

Seriously? Lie to the cops? You're right no use in arguing with you.

[beachy]

Whatever. It's what I've been told by multiple cop friends. I'm not telling anyone they have to do it, or that I even would. But what do I know, I'm too busy drinking.

[bigmamma]

As long as you're not driving, bottoms up. :drink: :beer: :drink: :beer:

[audette]

Jun 3, 2012 22:15:16 GMT -5 beachy said:

If you think I'm an asshole because I have a drink or two when I'm out and driving, so be it. Everyone has their own opinions and feelings on the topic, and are going to do what they are comfortable with. Personally I enjoy a good drink or beer and know how to enjoy it while staying within legal limits. You choose to abstain from it. Neither of us are breaking the law.

Sure, a drink or two might not be breaking the law. Not arguing that point. But, I am not incorrect when I say even just that one or two drinks can have an impact on your abilities behind the wheel. It might be relatively small. But, it's there.


Frankly, legal repucussions are the least of the risks when doing a risk/reward consideration on drinking and later driving. Imagine, if you will, the possibility of having an accident while driving. Someone gets hurt. Now, imagine this happens after having a drink or two. Yep, you might still be under .08, but will that matter to the incredible life-altering guilt and remorse that is going to come of something like this?

I've seen the fallout of someone committing vehicular homicide after a few drinks. It destroyed her, and those she most loved.

If I can avoid that with a simple, small action - abstaining from alcohol when I'm going to drive - sure. It's easy. Barely takes a thought to process that.


You say you are a health teacher, and know the body's reaction to alcohol. Most likely, you also teach students about this. I sincerely hope that when you teach, you teach a zero tolerance toward drinking and driving.

[beachy]

Jun 3, 2012 22:55:45 GMT -5 audette said:

Jun 3, 2012 22:15:16 GMT -5 beachy said:

If you think I'm an asshole because I have a drink or two when I'm out and driving, so be it. Everyone has their own opinions and feelings on the topic, and are going to do what they are comfortable with. Personally I enjoy a good drink or beer and know how to enjoy it while staying within legal limits. You choose to abstain from it. Neither of us are breaking the law.

Sure, a drink or two might not be breaking the law. Not arguing that point. But, I am not incorrect when I say even just that one or two drinks can have an impact on your abilities behind the wheel. It might be relatively small. But, it's there.


Frankly, legal repucussions are the least of the risks when doing a risk/reward consideration on drinking and later driving. Imagine, if you will, the possibility of having an accident while driving. Someone gets hurt. Now, imagine this happens after having a drink or two. Yep, you might still be under .08, but will that matter to the incredible life-altering guilt and remorse that is going to come of something like this?

I've seen the fallout of someone committing vehicular homicide after a few drinks. It destroyed her, and those she most loved.

If I can avoid that with a simple, small action - abstaining from alcohol when I'm going to drive - sure. It's easy. Barely takes a thought to process that.


You say you are a health teacher, and know the body's reaction to alcohol. Most likely, you also teach students about this. I sincerely hope that when you teach, you teach a zero tolerance toward drinking and driving.

And I seriously hope you aren't insulting my intelligence or teaching abilities by questioning what I teach.