SIDS - know anyone "personally"?

[jennlin]

personally being someone you know IRL or within a few degrees of separation... brother's wife's cousin's neighbor's coworker doesn't count.... but neighbor's sister...or something like that can count.

do you know anyone who has had this happen? describe the family "in-general"....how many kids? lots of family support? drugs/alcohol present? low/mid/high income?

just curious...

[sarack]

yes. i know a family, the children were significantly different in ages. the mom ended od'ing on drugs in the bathroom to cope. my case is probably different. it's just sad. they were mid income, i'm not sure if drugs were present when it happened, but judging by the way the mom went, probably. i was little.

i am wondering if they 'forgot' about the kid or something since they had a 6-10 year old at the time. i mean, i feel horrible saying that, but i wonder.

[jennlin]

the reason i ask is....remember that one very-very-low-income family i became friends with via fb-mommy-group? the one that couldn't afford a $1 pregnancy test? well, i follow a lot of her posts on the groups (she seriously posts 15x's a day). i don't interact, i just read her posts bc i'm so intrigued with her/her family.

either way, i saw yesterday that her husband has had two kids who did not survive. i don't know when they died, but they are not here anymore. also, the girl, has a younger brother that is no longer here.

and i was thinking back to the families i know IRL that had someone die from SIDS and only one i know close enough (my friend's sister) is also a very-low-income family.......another one is a friend's mom's neighbor...but i don't know them well enough, but i know they're not high-income, but not low-income either........and i'm sure if there was some sort of connection with low-income families and SIDS it would've been published by now...but i just found it interesting that of the people i know, it seems to be low-income.

just some random thoughts...

[jamer]

I think there are more "risk factors" with low income families.

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 10:26:27 GMT -5 jamer said:

I think there are more "risk factors" with low income families.

how so?

[sarack]

do you think he killed them? this makes me sick.

[jamer]

Apr 4, 2013 10:27:17 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Apr 4, 2013 10:26:27 GMT -5 jamer said:

I think there are more "risk factors" with low income families.

how so?

Sent you a message

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 10:29:50 GMT -5 sarack said:

do you think he killed them? this makes me sick.

nonononono. i don't think that. i am just shocked to hear that one person had TWO babies die at a young age. well honestly i don't know if they're young. i know one died "at birth" and she said he had another "who did not survive".

so i don't know for sure they are SIDS, or that her younger brother was....it just seems like a lot of kids dying. i don't know very many under-20-something's that died.

[sarack]

Apr 4, 2013 10:34:23 GMT -5 jamer said:

Apr 4, 2013 10:27:17 GMT -5 jennlin said:

how so?

Sent you a message

i want to know this too.. why not post it? i think it's true that in lower income houses there is more of a chance because of the chance of drugs and alcohol being present. 

[sarack]

Apr 4, 2013 10:36:48 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Apr 4, 2013 10:29:50 GMT -5 sarack said:

do you think he killed them? this makes me sick.

nonononono. i don't think that. i am just shocked to hear that one person had TWO babies die at a young age. well honestly i don't know if they're young. i know one died "at birth" and she said he had another "who did not survive".

so i don't know for sure they are SIDS, or that her younger brother was....it just seems like a lot of kids dying. i don't know very many under-20-something's that died.

maybe his ex got pregnant and miscarried in the 2nd or 3rd trimester? maybe ask..

didn't you also say that they had another kid who isn't there anymore? how are kids randomly around and then they aren't? seems fishy.

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 10:43:02 GMT -5 sarack said:

Apr 4, 2013 10:36:48 GMT -5 jennlin said:

nonononono. i don't think that. i am just shocked to hear that one person had TWO babies die at a young age. well honestly i don't know if they're young. i know one died "at birth" and she said he had another "who did not survive".

so i don't know for sure they are SIDS, or that her younger brother was....it just seems like a lot of kids dying. i don't know very many under-20-something's that died.

maybe his ex got pregnant and miscarried in the 2nd or 3rd trimester? maybe ask..

didn't you also say that they had another kid who isn't there anymore? how are kids randomly around and then they aren't? seems fishy.

no..she has a daughter that she does not have custody of. lives with her dad.

as far as i know..

girl (R) and H have one son together.

R has one daughter from previous relationship

H has 1 grown daughter with first wife, who was a twin, and the twin did not survive.

H has 2 teenagers with 2nd wife, and one that did not survive.

R has a younger brother that did not survive.

[sarack]

if i were that guy, i probably wouldn't want to have children, and possibly sex anymore. i feel like all that death is horribly saddening.

[meshimeshi]

I know someone personally whose daughter died of SIDS. She was about 2 weeks old. She was not low income. Maybe middle class?

I hate to this though, but she is pretty uneducated and idk. Some of her parenting choices in just those two weeks made me side eye. But maybe it's just me being over-cautious. But I remember when the baby was a week or something, maybe less, maybe more, she posted a picture on FB of her daughter out at Starbucks...and I think it was at a mall? I don't remember the specifics. However, I am pretty sure I won't be bringing my one-week old baby out anywhere public like that....Does that make me overly cautious? idk. I'm not a mom yet, but I feel pretty educated about child development being a teacher.

[jennlin]

meshimeshi, definitely not. i'm chinese, and we follow a very strict "house-arrest" after baby is born. both mom and baby are adjusting and healing, for at least a month. i slightly side-eye parents that take their babies out before 1 month, but that's just because i'm so engrained in my culture. i know it's normal to do so in the US, but i just find it hard to take the baby out so young....

spunbutterfly did the same house-arrest i did.

[meshimeshi]

Apr 4, 2013 11:28:11 GMT -5 jennlin said:

meshimeshi, definitely not. i'm chinese, and we follow a very strict "house-arrest" after baby is born. both mom and baby are adjusting and healing, for at least a month. i slightly side-eye parents that take their babies out before 1 month, but that's just because i'm so engrained in my culture. i know it's normal to do so in the US, but i just find it hard to take the baby out so young....

spunbutterfly did the same house-arrest i did.

Yah, I remember this. But even if that's not your culture, isn't it still advised against to bring baby somewhere that public before they are at least one month? Maybe I am making this up in my head. lol.

[jamer]

Here is a link from testimony regarding infant deaths and safe sleep. Lack of information, life circumstances but there are some facts in there.

www.governor.wa.gov/ofco/legislation/2011/safe_sleep_20110204.pdf

[catbus]

Apr 4, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 meshimeshi said:

Apr 4, 2013 11:28:11 GMT -5 jennlin said:

meshimeshi, definitely not. i'm chinese, and we follow a very strict "house-arrest" after baby is born. both mom and baby are adjusting and healing, for at least a month. i slightly side-eye parents that take their babies out before 1 month, but that's just because i'm so engrained in my culture. i know it's normal to do so in the US, but i just find it hard to take the baby out so young....

spunbutterfly did the same house-arrest i did.

Yah, I remember this. But even if that's not your culture, isn't it still advised against to bring baby somewhere that public before they are at least one month? Maybe I am making this up in my head. lol.

No, that's not necessarily standard advice. It's smart to avoid crowded spaces, especially during cold and flu season, but otherwise it's generally accepted as fine. We actually had a thread on MM Moms about this last week: pandce.proboards.com/thread/155702/newborn-out-survey

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 meshimeshi said:

Yah, I remember this. But even if that's not your culture, isn't it still advised against to bring baby somewhere that public before they are at least one month? Maybe I am making this up in my head. lol.

i've never seen it as not recommended anywhere, i think it's just your judgement...based on how many people i see do it, i don't think dr's actually advise against it or anything....it really should be not-recommended, but also, the chances of something happening, are still low, bc so many people do it and don't have issues.....right?

[meshimeshi]

Apr 4, 2013 11:33:35 GMT -5 catbus said:

Apr 4, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 meshimeshi said:

Yah, I remember this. But even if that's not your culture, isn't it still advised against to bring baby somewhere that public before they are at least one month? Maybe I am making this up in my head. lol.

No, that's not standard advice. It's smart to avoid crowded spaces, especially during cold and flu season, but otherwise it's fine. We actually had a thread on MM Moms about this last week: pandce.proboards.com/thread/155702/newborn-out-survey

Oh, maybe it's just engrained in me also. For some reason, I have just always thought it was a bad idea. lol.

[jennlin]

catbus, interesting. i'm always shocked to see people take their babies out before 1 month...but like i said..i'm just so deep into my culture for this specific thing. it's hard to let go and remember it's "normal" to take babies out so early for non-asians haha.

[meshimeshi]

This girl though that it happened too, I just she was just not well informed about the risk factors. Or just didn't really take the time to learn about pregnancy during that child. For instance, I remember seeing baby in her carrier and her head was flopped over to the side. She had no neck support. I just think with things like that, she probably wasn't very informed when it came to sleeping procedures too? idk. Maybe that's me being judgmental.

However, I do want to know of a case where the mom was very educated about pregnancy and infancy and took the time to learn everything, but still had a child die of SIDS. I'm sure there are cases, but I feel like they happen less often. I'm with you Jennlin and wanting to know if there is a link. But for me I think it's more about knowing the risks versus not? rather than income? but then income can often play into how educated you are and how much time you have to give to learning about pregnancy.

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 11:42:58 GMT -5 meshimeshi said:

However, I do want to know of a case where the mom was very educated about pregnancy and infancy and took the time to learn everything, but still had a child die of SIDS. I'm sure there are cases, but I feel like they happen less often. I'm with you Jennlin and wanting to know if there is a link. But for me I think it's more about knowing the risks versus not? rather than income? but then income can often play into how educated you are and how much time you have to give to learning about pregnancy.

well i do "know" a girl online who writes a blog about natural parenting (https://www.facebook.com/TheProgressiveParent?fref=ts) ...i didn't start following her until after her baby died (in january). her baby was about 2 mos older than bjl, so it hit home hard when i heard about it.

she's very involved with her baby (as far as i know, i only know her post-sids), but i do know she also uses marijuana. i'm pretty sure she's responsible with it (she has a prescription), but drugs DO become a factor for me here in speculation.

what scares me about her is that she seems normal, sane, in tune with her baby......but i also don't know that for sure.

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 11:44:34 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

In Korea, the reason for the mother being under 'house arrest' is to make sure:
1) she rests
2) that her bones don't get 'cold' cause there are old wives tales that going outdoors before your body has a chance to flush out all the hormones and readjust, you can get a 'wind' in your bones and that can lead to later osteoporosis.
3) bonding time for mother and child.

in chinese culture, the "cold in your bones" causes arthritis and headaches. the "cold in your bones" also happens after swimming and/or showering, which is why you're technically not supposed to shower during the one month-healing period, either. i washed my hair once a week as an alternative.

[7costanza]

Interesting discussion, especially hearing about the traditions in other cultures! I don't know anyone who had a baby die of SIDS, but I'm due in late July and am planning on taking baby to a wedding on July 27th (if he's here) and to the Blue Angels the first weekend in August.

[cdmay]

I know two people personally affected by SIDS. One is highly educated, upper middle class, with no drug or mental health issues. The other lower middle class and i don't know other details. Both families are white.

SIDS occurs in all demographic groups, though rates are higher among lower socio-economic status and among certain racial groups. SIDS rates are decreasing among all groups. Here are some articles and powerpoint presentation slides (the abstracts are pretty accessible) that talk about these patterns and recent efforts, in case folks are interested in learning more about the socio-economic factors associated with SIDS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449471/
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00043987.htm
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/pdf/v058p00366.pdf and www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/
www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/ms/ms-sids-0518.pdf

[InBetweenDays]

Just had to chime in - I would have gone stir crazy if I had to be on house arrest for a month. We had DD out to lunch at 3 days old, to Target at 4 days old, and went to the Oregon Coast for a long weekend at 1 week old. Also flew cross country with her when she was 5 weeks old. When we were out and about I either wore her in wrap or she was in her carseat so her interaction with others was practically nil.

I think it is all what individuals are comfortable with, but I don't think it is judgement worthy to have a young baby out and about if you take some precautions.

[catbus]

Apr 4, 2013 13:15:22 GMT -5 @jennuinne said:

Apr 4, 2013 12:47:47 GMT -5 cdmay said:

I know two people personally affected by SIDS. One is highly educated, upper middle class, with no drug or mental health issues. The other lower middle class and i don't know other details. Both families are white.

SIDS occurs in all demographic groups, though rates are higher among lower socio-economic status and among certain racial groups. SIDS rates are decreasing among all groups. Here are some articles and powerpoint presentation slides (the abstracts are pretty accessible) that talk about these patterns and recent efforts, in case folks are interested in learning more about the socio-economic factors associated with SIDS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449471/
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00043987.htm
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/pdf/v058p00366.pdf and www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/
www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/ms/ms-sids-0518.pdf

I *think* I read that it is more common in African Americans (and one other race) than whites, and more common w/ boys than girls. 

This thread is starting to give me the hibbie jibbies, let's knock on wood, shall we?

IIRC, Native Americans. I don't know the studies behind those conclusions, though, because statistically people of AA and NA heritage are less educated and lower incomes than other races (in the U.S.). It's difficult to extricate those factors, though, especially with SIDS when so many factors are at play. 

Unfortunately, SIDS is more common in lower socioeconomic households, as is shaken baby syndrome. In both SIDS and SBS, resources are important. Poorer parents/caretakers typically have fewer resources of all kinds than their wealthier counterparts. This includes economic, emotional, and monetary. 

Edit: I got distracted and forgot to actually finish my thought. I would think it's the lack of resources that make SIDS more prevalent in those situations. Parents are maybe less likely to be aware of certain risk factors, such as smoking (even if they don't smoke in the home, SIDS risk goes up significantly if a primary caregiver smokes), blankets in the crib, room temperature, etc.

[jennlin]

Apr 4, 2013 12:47:47 GMT -5 cdmay said:

I know two people personally affected by SIDS. One is highly educated, upper middle class, with no drug or mental health issues. The other lower middle class and i don't know other details. Both families are white.

SIDS occurs in all demographic groups, though rates are higher among lower socio-economic status and among certain racial groups. SIDS rates are decreasing among all groups. Here are some articles and powerpoint presentation slides (the abstracts are pretty accessible) that talk about these patterns and recent efforts, in case folks are interested in learning more about the socio-economic factors associated with SIDS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449471/
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00043987.htm
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/pdf/v058p00366.pdf and www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/
www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/ms/ms-sids-0518.pdf

So your personal reference proves me wrong, but your link #3 shows there may be a link. Interesting thanks.

[cdmay]

Apr 4, 2013 13:30:21 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Apr 4, 2013 12:47:47 GMT -5 cdmay said:

I know two people personally affected by SIDS. One is highly educated, upper middle class, with no drug or mental health issues. The other lower middle class and i don't know other details. Both families are white.

SIDS occurs in all demographic groups, though rates are higher among lower socio-economic status and among certain racial groups. SIDS rates are decreasing among all groups. Here are some articles and powerpoint presentation slides (the abstracts are pretty accessible) that talk about these patterns and recent efforts, in case folks are interested in learning more about the socio-economic factors associated with SIDS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449471/
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00043987.htm
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/pdf/v058p00366.pdf and www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732769/
www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/ms/ms-sids-0518.pdf

So your personal reference proves me wrong, but your link #3 shows there may be a link. Interesting thanks.

It only says you are wrong if your hypothesis was that it is specific to lower-income families.   But i think you were hypothesizing that it's less common -- not non-existent -- among higher-income families (right?).  Either way, I think all of those sources indicate an economic link.

jennuinne, rates are reducing across the board!  And research shows that knowing and acting on information significantly reduces the SIDS risk.  But knocking on wood is always a good backup

Here are some diagrams especially relevant to the discussion:
Rates of SIDS per 1000 live births by mother’s race/ethnicity and social class in the before and after Back to Sleep birth cohorts.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449471/bin/059063.A1.jpg

General SIDS statistics
www.sidscenter.org/Statistics.html

SIDS Deaths by Race and Ethnicity, 1995–2009
www.sidscenter.org/images/stats_chart2ethnicity.gif

International SIDS Rates, Ordered from Lowest to Highest SIDS Rate in 2005
(shows significant decreases in SIDS rates in Western nations)
www.sidscenter.org/images/stats_chart3international.gif

[karebear219]

My grandparents on each side had a daughter die of SIDS. That was a long time ago and things were different so I wouldn't count that as relevant here.