Last night's counseling session with the in-laws

[blackcat]

I need some advice, badly. Last night, I had a counseling session with DH and his parents. It was a really rough, rough session. His parents were extremely angry and combative. They kept challenging our counselor and just getting shitty about the questions he was asking them, and MIL would not let anyone (me especially) get a word in edgewise. At one point, our therapist said in a very stern tone to her, "MIL, you have had your chance to talk, now you need to let other people take their turn, blackcat is talking." And she STILL continued to interrupt me, it was craziness. They blame all of the problems on me, of course, and said that DH needs to stand up to me, that I am manipulating him and trying to keep him from his family ("attack and shun" as FIL repeated over and over), when in reality, his mother is the one who continues to stir the pot and take passive aggressive shots at me (she used to use Facebook to do this, but I unfriended her almost a year ago). The final straw came in August when she went after me, and DH stood up to her and basically since then, the relationship has been very cold between DH and his parents. The in-laws said that no one in their family likes or wants to be around me, that I don't talk to anyone when I'm at family functions (yes, I tend to be on the quieter side, mostly because I know they don't want me there!). I could feel the hatred radiating from them. Our one hour session turned into an hour and forty minutes.

Our therapist suggested sitting down with MIL and me and doing a separate session, to work on our issues, but MIL said no, she has to have FIL there (her excuse: "he has problems with blackcat too."). Both of them, even with a lot of pushing, refused to accept or acknowledge that they've had any part in these problems, that they have hurt ME. They also indicated that they don't think my intentions are genuine with the counseling (I was like, I wouldn't BE here if I didn't want to fix things or make them better). DH stayed pretty quiet during the session but told me in the car on the ride home that he was very disappointed with his parents and their behavior in the session. Our next session is June 3 (unfortunately the only one we can get at that time of the evening). I cried and cried most of the evening. I just don't know what to do. I feel like the only thing that would placate the in-laws would be us splitting up.

I did have a thought this morning, though: maybe the best way to move forward is for me to not attend any more of their family functions and to just cut them out, yet encourage DH to maintain a relationship with them. The way they kept indicating that DH's family doesn't like or want to be around me does nothing but justify this. I mean, it would suck to be alone on holidays and stuff (my family lives far away mostly), but it would take (or at least I think it might take?) some of the toxicity out of my life. It would be very weird for DH to go to these things on his own - or would it? Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks for listening. I am exhausted today from so much crying.

[spitforspat]

Oh, man. I don't know backstory, but ((blackcat)).

[karmasabiotch]

Why do you want your DH to see people that treat you so poorly? Why would he want to see them? Will you be ok with him continuing a relationship with them or do you feel as though he should pick between them or you?

[dana2006]

I'm really sorry for what you have to endure from your ILs. Honestly, they sound crazy. I'd cut them out, without a question. Even if your H still wants to spend time with them by himself, it doesn't mean that he needs to spend all major holidays with them. Focus on how you and your H tackle this together.

[themoneytree]

That sounds awful, I'm sorry. : (
I don't know if there is back story where you have seriously wronged your husband in some way, but if you haven't done something REALLY bad, then their attitude towards you is really unacceptable. Why didn't your husband stand up to them during the session?

I do not think he should go to holidays stuff without you. Honestly it sounds like he needs to man up and decide what he wants to do. If he wants to visit them without you then he can do it on a regular weekend. Holidays are for family and YOU are the family he chose.

If you DID do something terrible to your husband then pretty much the same thing applies except I would keep trying to chip away at warning the trust back. Either way your husband is an adult and his parents need to start respecting his decisions and if they include being married to you then HE should be the one taking a stand with his parents.

[idoinjuly]

I don't think it's wierd for your dh to go to family functions alone. I'll be damned if I spend any time with people who have told me they dislike me. I think you could cut them out without your dh cutting them out. Of course, I would expect him to not spend an entire holiday with them, but instead maybe visit for a couple of hours then come home.

[Deleted]

May 7, 2013 10:57:22 GMT -5 karmasabiotch said:

Why do you want your DH to see people that treat you so poorly? Why would he want to see them? Will you be ok with him continuing a relationship with them or do you feel as though he should pick between them or you?

I'm not familiar with backstory either, but ditto to the bolded. Why invest so much to save this? They sound like horrible people.

And I'm not assuming anything, but if there is any possibility that eventually you will have children, think long and hard about the idea that H will continue a relationship with them that doesn't include you.

[calledout]

Why did you sign up for a counseling session with them in the first place?

[thebamker]

I personally think you're an amazing wife for going through all this instead of just saying FU!

[tulip]

I did have a thought this morning, though: maybe the best way to move forward is for me to not attend any more of their family functions and to just cut them out, yet encourage DH to maintain a relationship with them. The way they kept indicating that DH's family doesn't like or want to be around me does nothing but justify this. I mean, it would suck to be alone on holidays and stuff (my family lives far away mostly), but it would take (or at least I think it might take?) some of the toxicity out of my life. It would be very weird for DH to go to these things on his own - or would it? Anyone have experience with this?



We live 1200 miles from MIL so my situation is different because of this. However, I cut MIL off almost a year ago. DH still talks/texts/emails her but he wants to cut her off but won't because he is her only family. She is planning to get remarried we think this summer so he may after that. We don't talk about her because I don't care.

If we did live back home he would have to see her on his own without me. She is 100% his responsibility and she will never step foot in my house again. The last time she was a disaster so never again. DH told me that she called him and told him she was coming this spring and would stay at our house. DH knew that I would leave and might possibly never come back. All I know is that she never came and it not coming.

It can work but your H has to understand what his part in on supporting you in this. Also, no way would I be okay with my H leaving me alone on the Holidays. Your H will have to find an alternate way to spend the Holidays with his family. You are his FAMILY now and come first. PM if you want, in law problems are awful. I have made myself sick over the issues with my MIL. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

[psychmom]

Your inlaws sound like toxic people. Because they're so combative and only point the finger at you, I wouldn't even encourage H to have a relationship with them.

[themoneytree]

May 7, 2013 11:02:52 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Also, why is he telling *you* that he's disappointed in them? He should be telling *them* that.

100% agree. That's the part that seems really off in this story.

[Deleted]

If what you're saying is telling him "I'm done, no more, don't ask me to see, talk to or have anything to do with them" without telling him he must do the same, then yes. I think I would do that. I would really hope he'd decide on his own to tell them that HE wants nothing to do with them because or THEIR behaviour. But I wouldn't force him to. It is something he needs to decide for himself.

[karmasabiotch]

I'm sort of anti marriage today but I would end up resenting my H is he was consistently making the choose to talk with or see these people. If you decided to have kids with him it would amp it up even more.

It's just such a sucky situation. I'm sorry.

[pantsparty]

That really sounds awful. I have no idea what the backstory is, but I can tell by the session how unreasonable and nasty they are.

You can certainly encourage your H to have a relationship apart from you, but I think that is going to get tricky during the holidays. You should not have to spend your holiday alone because your ILs are assholes. Secondly, I agree with missusbee that this is going to go badly very quickly if you have kids. They will want to see the kids, but will they be big enough to start treating you with kindness and respect? I doubt it. So you won't want your kids to spend time with them, which your H will probably resent, and will add another layer of dysfunction.

Good luck - the fact that you even went says a lot about you, but I don't think I'd waste much time trying to appease these horrible people.

[anlo]

Holy shit. Just the subject line of this post gives me anxiety. That session sounds like the stuff of my nightmares. I'm so sorry things didn't go better. Thank goodness your H sees things for what they are and is being supportive of you. I think that is the most important thing here. My only advice is to know that you don't have to continue going to these sessions. It doesn't sound like your inlaws are willing to actually do some work on the relationship. Good luck going forward.

[thebamker]

May 7, 2013 11:02:24 GMT -5 tulip said:

I did have a thought this morning, though: maybe the best way to move forward is for me to not attend any more of their family functions and to just cut them out, yet encourage DH to maintain a relationship with them. The way they kept indicating that DH's family doesn't like or want to be around me does nothing but justify this. I mean, it would suck to be alone on holidays and stuff (my family lives far away mostly), but it would take (or at least I think it might take?) some of the toxicity out of my life. It would be very weird for DH to go to these things on his own - or would it? Anyone have experience with this?

No. I disagree completely.  Please don't do this. YOU are his FIRST family. If they can't deal with you two together - tough titties!
I strongly recommend you don't propose this solution.

Quoted the wrong one.  sorry tulip!

[blackcat]

Thanks for all the support. To answer some of the questions:

1. Backstory is long, I have not done anything terrible to DH, but his mother treats me very poorly (e.g. the passive aggressive comments on facebook - last summer she saw a post I had written to another friend about an annoying neighbor, and then went on her wall and did a rant on how she was glad to be from the south (I'm a northerner), where they have good values and do not focus on petty things, etc. It was directed at me, and after this kind of stuff happening repeatedly, it was just it for me, so I demanded that DH stand up to them, and he did, we stopped going to family functions completely, which his family claimed "devastated them." Thus, where they are getting the whole "she's taking our son away from us" stuff. So they won't recognize it for what it is, their son standing up for his wife from poor treatment from his mother.

2. I suggested a group counseling session because his mother kept whining to DH about he is so cold to her and didn't call her on her birthday, etc. I felt we needed to get our issues out on the table with a third, neutral party to kind of guide the conversation. I was foolish to think they could be adults about this and actually LISTEN to what I had to say and own some of their past behavior.

3. DH is very introverted and hates confrontation and I am disappointed he didn't say more in the session. Very disappointed. His parents said they "didn't even know who he is anymore." (because of how he stood up for me outside the session)

4. karma - I tried that tactic in the past, I told DH that it is unacceptable for him to continue a relationship with people who crap on me. But the more he stays away from them, the more they claim that I am trying to tear apart the family and keep their son away. They even brought up the fact that they heard I was pissed that DH went to their house for dinner (and didn't tell me about it) when I was away on a business trip (they NEVER invite both of us over).

[Deleted]

listen, i either never knew or don't remember the backstory, but what is it that they say is so terrible about you? like "she doesn't like us and acts snotty" (i.e., something vague and unproveable) or like "she said X to me and it hurt my feelings and also didn't send me a birthday present" and you KNOW and can SHOW that those things are false?


because, while i wouldn't hang out with either type of person and i'd be hella pissed at my husband for even asking me to while they remain unrepentant, i'd be livid beyond measure that he didn't cut them off forevah (he's the one who decided with your fil that you and your mil should get over it, right?) if it was the later.

[Deleted]

These people are toxic and I do think it's best for you to cut them out of your life.  I think your DH needs to spend major holidays with just you, though - the new family he created.  He can still see his family on random days, go to family events like birthdays, and maybe see them without you on minor holidays like the 4th of July.  It sounds like you don't have kids. If you plan to have them, you and DH need to get on the same page about how that will work.  Your kid will pick up on the tension and it will not be good.  My mom had toxic parents, and my parents had to eventually cut them off.  Growing up, my mom and I would go visit them for one week one time a year, and that is the only time I ever saw them.  It was hurtful to my mom that her parents couldn't act like adults, but if parents force you to choose between them and a spouse, you pick your spouse.

[SusanBAnthony]

We if he hasn't seen them or talked to them, how do you even know (any why do you care) that they are getting madder and madder?

[Gato]

I don't know the back story, but you sound like the reasonable person here, not your ILs. I'm sorry you're going through this. If it were me, I wouldn't want to give up all my holidays with my H just to keep the peace, even if it were MY peace of mind. That's just too much to give up. Maybe he could attend some limited number of family events without me, but I'd want him with me for important holidays.

You two are a family now, each other's closest family, and your ILs have to either accept this, and make a place for you, or lose out on their son. They will have pushed him away with their awful behavior - it is NOT your fault.

[Muddled]

Nope. You guys are a team, if they don't accept you, they don't accept your family (you and H). If they insult you, they are insulting your family.

If he wants to go over for a random visit from time to time without you, fine, but holidays are to be spent with you, period.

I am surprised that your H was silent during all of this. He needs to show what side he is on. Not choosing a side is not going to be an option.

[blackcat]

May 7, 2013 11:09:59 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Why exactly is it you feel you have to give these sick, miserable people what THEY want? Your dh is on your side; he sees the horribleness of their behavior to you, and he doesn't want to have anything to do with them. WHY DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO THROW HIM BACK INTO THAT PACK OF WOLVES? Can you consider, for one minute, how your dh feels knowing you won't stick with him on this?

See, I sometimes question whether he is on my side or just doing this to shut me up. He says he is "in the middle," which puzzles me, how can you be in the middle when there is one side that is clearly wrong?
 
The in-laws have really twisted things in his mind, I think, they claim that they feel they have to "walk on eggshells" with me. The best, BEST part of the session was when our therapist asked MIL how she thinks I probably felt when she made the comments she did, and her response: "I don't know, there is no way *I* would have gotten offended by that!" Therapist was like, I'm not asking you if you would have been offended, I'm asking you how BLACKCAT felt. She still couldn't or wouldn't even go there, it just kept going back to her and what she would have done.

I do not wish to throw DH to the wolves, but I am really grabbing at straws here for a solution, I am just not sure what that is. He does see the horribleness of their behavior but I think he is too scared to cut them out completely.

[karmasabiotch]

Let them bathe in their anger. If you and your H don't have anything to do wth them who cares what they think? If your H is willing to stand with you on this then end the talks and cut off contact from this minute forward.

[mrsukyankee]

Sounds like time to have a counselling session with just you and your husband to talk about this issue again and make some decision then (instead of responding to what just happened). I would not invite your ILs back to the therapy sessions for any reason as it won't work (manipulative people never seem to do well in therapy). You are in a tough situation, but you can't control what others do, just what you decide to do. I hope your DH works with you on this as you are now family.

[pedanticwench]

I get why you're doing this, but I think it will be fruitless in the end.

I mean, how do you come back from the things your MIL has said to you? I understand your H being torn, but he will ultimately have to choose between you and his family, I think.

What a sucky situation, I'm sorry.

[blackcat]

May 7, 2013 11:13:58 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

We if he hasn't seen them or talked to them, how do you even know (any why do you care) that they are getting madder and madder?

They text him.

[Deleted]

May 7, 2013 11:11:21 GMT -5 blackcat said:

4. karma - I tried that tactic in the past, I told DH that it is unacceptable for him to continue a relationship with people who crap on me. But the more he stays away from them, the more they claim that I am trying to tear apart the family and keep their son away. They even brought up the fact that they heard I was pissed that DH went to their house for dinner (and didn't tell me about it) when I was away on a business trip (they NEVER invite both of us over).

How do you know each others' reactions if there's little/no contact? I wonder if there's someone who's helping to stir up drama. This isn't to minimize what the in-laws are doing, at all, but it seems like there's a lot of unhelpful communication going on in this situation.

[Deleted]

I could have written this a year ago about my H and my own family. They are toxic people who never accepted my husband, mostly because they are all co-dependent and hate outsiders. He told me for years he felt they didn't treat him well (and really, they did not treat me well either) and I stood up for them or just let things slide. I have many concrete examples of fucked up things they have done to me and him.

I am so regretful that I let it go on as long as I did.

I have cut out my toxic family, and while there is still damage to my marriage from the drama, I can say that I know my husband is glad that I finally stood up to them. For me, and him, and for our kids.

Is your H in individual therapy?