Yep, similar situation here as well. After years and years of going back and forth between my mil, my h and I, I finally told my h that he needed to chose his side. Sure he would stand up for me and everything, but when he would go over to his parents house without me it was almost like he was validating his crazy ass mom. I know I'm not explaining this well, but she treated me like absolute shit and I started to feel like if h continued to visit her, it was like he was saying "sure, you can keep treating my wife like garbage because I'll still be in your life no matter what". Yeah, no. After explaining it to my h like that, he understood where I was coming from and why I was feeling so much resentment towards him. We both finally made the decision to cut her out of our (and our kid(s)) lives and it's been the best decision we've ever made as a couple. Our marriage is 100% better and it's just SO nice to live drama free.
I'm likely going to be the outlier here, but I'm totally confused as to why you suggested a group therapy session. Your MIL makes passive-agressive comments to you FB (and presumably, sometimes in person?) That sucks and would cause me to think that I'd never want to pursue a "real" relationship with these people. And so I'd prob commit to spending a few hours in their company 2-3 times a year and call it a day. Trying to "work things out" with people who pretty clearly don't like you just seems too forced. And now asking your H to essentially choose between his parents and you - again - it just seems a little dramatic to me.
This is what I'm struggling with, too. At first, I felt bad for you, blackcat, because your initial post really did sound like your in-laws had an established pattern of treating you horribly over time. But then you came back and explained that this all basically blossomed out of a FB rant that you presumed was directed at you, and it all spiraled so out of control that your husband cut them off for a short time and you all find yourselves sitting in therapy to discuss your differences and work them out. That just screams making a mountain our of a mole-hill. If I ended up in therapy with every family member I disagreed with on FB, I'd need my own, personal psychologist on staff.
As for your husband's behavior, there's a reason he's not speaking up in therapy, and it's not because he's non-confrontational. It's because he doesn't want either of you to realize that he's on neither of your sides. He doesn't think either of you are right in this argument, and he does, very much feel stuck "in the middle" just as he said. I'd say he probably is still trying to figure out how this got so blown out of proportion, but he's married to you and known his mother all his life, so I'm guessing he knows exactly how you two were able to create War of the Roses out of a self-indulgent FB rant.
It sounds to me that he turned into his father, appeasing and "standing up" for his wife in public, and married someone just like his mother.
I can't urge couples therapy and individual therapy for you strongly enough. You need to find out why you'd let passive aggressive comments come so close to destroying your marriage (even if they are persistent) and why in the world you married someone you don't think is "strong." I can't imagine thinking my husband is still afraid of his parents (why should he have ever been afraid of them?) and not a strong person.
I actually see ONE benefit to doing these group sessions - w /a neutral 3rd party there and your MIL STILL being so horrid and mean to you and not letting you talk, making no effort to work things out... maybe, just maybe, this will be what makes your DH finally wake up and see his parents for what they truly are.
He's "in the middle" because he chooses to be. And I do empathize - it's hard to admit that your parents, the people who raised you, are assholes. But maybe these sessions will speed up HIS realization of this.
Post by fuckyourcouch on May 7, 2013 13:33:37 GMT -5
they sound EXACTLY like my h's parents (down to the letter - his mom hates me for being from the north, a brunette, etc.). we eventually told them to fuck off and stopped talking to them. they were not invited to our wedding. a couple of years later, they tried to get us to do counseling by phone with them (because they live in another state) and we were like HAHA NO. seriously, cut these toxic people out and be done. out lives have been infinitely better, especially my h's. the things they have said and done are unforgivable and they don't think there was a thing wrong with any of it, it was all my fault.
Post by themoneytree on May 7, 2013 13:39:02 GMT -5
What did your husband say when you asked him why he told your MIL that you were upset you weren't invited for dinner? Was he trying to help?
This confuses me. My FIL is ALWAYS complaining that his wife and sister don't get on. There's been a feud since shortly after they were married 10 years ago. From what I can tell pretty much the entire problem stems from FIL's inability to STFU. He tells his wife what his sister says about her, and his sister what his wife said. As far as I'm concerned he is the architect of his own issues and he is forever whining about being stuck in the middle too.
Is this what your DH does? Because a small comment can become some huge issue once it's been relayed back out of context.
If your DH is doing this then he needs to learn to keep his trap shut sharpish.
I would also like to hear more about the backstory and how the relationship took a turn for the worse in the beginning.
i could have written this post. word for word, everything here happened to me with my ILs. only, they refused to go to counselling with H (but our situations are similar in that *I* was the problem, when really, it was just that my H finally had the support to stand up to their behaviour and when he did, they blamed it on me controlling him).
anyway, they refused to go to counselling regularly. they attended a handful of sessions, all spaced out with months in between (b/c they were 'busy'). and the sessions were similar to yours, only i wasn't there (yet...the hope would be that i eventually joined in). they spent the whole time in denial, fighting with the therapist, lying, etc.
ultimately, b/c they wouldn't make a committment to the process, my H felt that his only choice going forward was to cut them out completely. so he did. for 7 years. it was really hard for him, but entirely necessary.
we now have a superficial realtionship with them, which started after we had our first child. there was NO WAY i was going to let them trash me to anyone who would listen and say that i was the reason they never see/met their grandosn. so, we decided to let them in just a little.
it works well now b/c they know if they pull any of their fuckery, they will not be able to see their grandson, or their son. they know now that H has the ability to write them off on a moment's notice. he has proven it to them.
i don't have any advice for you - i mean, you do what works for you. i am a little surprised that you are OK with the option of your H continuing a relationship with them. IMO, you are giving in to their craziness. it should be a package deal, you and your H. i would be really upset if my H didn't have the cajones to stand up to his family on my behalf. and i'm not trying to knowck your H -- with my H, it took him many months in individual therapy to realize that it was the right decision for his situation. i don't think our marriage would have survived otherwise.
(heart) i could have written your post too. it took my h a long time to finally reach the conclusion that they were just insufferable assholes and it was best for him mentally. he struggled for a while with the decision and now he knows it was best.
you are a much better person than me for letting them have a relationship with your kids. i couldn't do it.
I would never ban my husband from his family because they didn't like me. What difference does it make if someone has a meal at their parents' house? Just go once in a while and don't engage or let him go on his own.
Yep, similar situation here as well. After years and years of going back and forth between my mil, my h and I, I finally told my h that he needed to chose his side. Sure he would stand up for me and everything, but when he would go over to his parents house without me it was almost like he was validating his crazy ass mom. I know I'm not explaining this well, but she treated me like absolute shit and I started to feel like if h continued to visit her, it was like he was saying "sure, you can keep treating my wife like garbage because I'll still be in your life no matter what". Yeah, no. After explaining it to my h like that, he understood where I was coming from and why I was feeling so much resentment towards him. We both finally made the decision to cut her out of our (and our kid(s)) lives and it's been the best decision we've ever made as a couple. Our marriage is 100% better and it's just SO nice to live drama free.
This is what I am afraid of if he still goes to functions without you. They win and that is bullshit.
I would never ban my husband from his family because they didn't like me. What difference does it make if someone has a meal at their parents' house? Just go once in a while and don't engage or let him go on his own.
You didn't read the post if you think it was as simple as them not liking her. They are being awful/toxic people. Look, I really don't give a crap if my in laws like me, don't like me or just put up with me. But if that moves into a territory that is damaging a marriage (just not liking someone doesn't ruin a marriage,it's all the garbage they are pulling), then he needs to stick up for his wife which may mean no longer talking to them ever again.
Thanks to everyone for the responses, even some of the tougher ones, I just got out of a meeting.
To answer the question about marriage counseling, yes we have been going since October.
I didn't want to go into a super long backstory but we have been married for four years and my first argument w/ MIL started two days before my wedding. She had committed to getting her makeup done with my bridal party, I had already paid for it and she was supposed to pay me back, etc. but she backed out right before, saying that I had lied to her about the cost (I didn't) and that she wants to go with someone cheaper. I sent her an email, I was upset, and I said, please reconsider, I really don't want to be out this money right before my wedding, I have enough expenses going on, etc. Well she ignored me, I got DH involved, told him this was crap, told him she had already committed to this, etc. Well she says I overreacted, etc. and a lot of it was due to wedding stress, I'll own that, but she then sent me an email saying that if this was the kind of person I am, to overreact like this, then I should reconsider marrying her son and that she and I were going to have a long road ahead. Two days before my wedding.
The next incident came about a year later, we were with my new nephew (her grandson), a neighbor stopped by and said "Ooh blackcat, you're next!" and MIL wagged her finger in my face and said "You WILL have children."
Next incident: I FB posted a satirical article from CNN on "parents who don't curb their kids in restaurants." Well, she took that opportunity to start posting on that article about how not having kids is a mistake, then started calling out family members who decided not to have children (by name!) and talking about them, how they had made a mistake, etc etc. I did not react kindly to that and basically told her the decision to have/not have children was none of her freaking business.
Latest incident: The FB status update she posted after she must have been my comment about my annoying neighbor, where she said she was glad to be raised southern, they had good values, were not petty, etc. CLEARLY aimed at me. And because of the pattern of crappy comments, I just had enough. I sent her a private message and said, "Why did you have to go there? I thought we were in a good place." And at that time, we had been! For at least a few months. Sigh. She wouldn't write back and answer me.
I am not claiming to be innocent here. I can definitely get riled up. But I have not been the instigator. MIL knows exactly how to stir the pot. And I fell for it, each time. However, last night, I was willing to own up to MY mistakes, acknowledge MY wrongs and maybe how MIL felt, but she and FIL refused to do the same. Refused. Wouldn't even hear me out.
I would never ban my husband from his family because they didn't like me. What difference does it make if someone has a meal at their parents' house? Just go once in a while and don't engage or let him go on his own.
You didn't read the post if you think it was as simple as them not liking her. They are being awful/toxic people. Look, I really don't give a crap if my in laws like me, don't like me or just put up with me. But if that moves into a territory that is damaging a marriage (just not liking someone doesn't ruin a marriage,it's all the garbage they are pulling), then he needs to stick up for his wife which may mean no longer talking to them ever again.
Yes, this is true. They are very toxic and cause a lot of problems for me and DH. MIL hates me for many reasons, one of which is that I don't have and don't plan to have children. The things she said about me in last night's session were awful. I was not awful to her and FIL. I listened to what they said objectively and was trying to make the session productive. If I just outright wanted to control DH and keep him front his family, I would have done it from the start, but when we got married, I used to invite his parents over all the time, would go over there all the time, etc. I tried. But after the last incident, where MIL refused to even acknowledge how hurtful her comment was and refused to apologize, that was kind of the last straw. So yeah, I was kind of pissed that he went over there after that.
I haven't read all the posts on here so this may have already been said: I would not stop going to family functions. If you don't go, they win. I'm just kind of stubborn like that.
It's refreshing to me that you do see your part in this whole thing. It sounds like your MIL has been petty from the get-go, but I'm sure you realize that you should not engage conversations with this woman any more.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I'm likely going to be the outlier here, but I'm totally confused as to why you suggested a group therapy session. Your MIL makes passive-agressive comments to you FB (and presumably, sometimes in person?) That sucks and would cause me to think that I'd never want to pursue a "real" relationship with these people. And so I'd prob commit to spending a few hours in their company 2-3 times a year and call it a day. Trying to "work things out" with people who pretty clearly don't like you just seems too forced. And now asking your H to essentially choose between his parents and you - again - it just seems a little dramatic to me.
Yes, this is what we've been doing over the past 9 months, seeing them very infrequently. But after last night's session where they basically ripped into me for not saying hello to anyone when I first come in, not talking enough, ignoring my nieces and nephews, how other family members don't want to be around me, etc etc., that is where the whole "maybe I should just stop going altogether" thought came from. MIL also told our therapist that I have a "wall up." I AM quiet and reserved when I see them, because I feel like I have to walk on egg shells over there, I never know when MIL might come out with a nasty comment, so i figure just stand there and smile, and say very little. But clearly they do not want me around period.
I haven't read all the posts on here so this may have already been said: I would not stop going to family functions. If you don't go, they win. I'm just kind of stubborn like that.
It's refreshing to me that you do see your part in this whole thing. It sounds like your MIL has been petty from the get-go, but I'm sure you realize that you should not engage conversations with this woman any more.
Yes, my whole intention of going to counseling was to get everything out on the table. I knew I played a part in it, but my reactions were in response to her crappy treatment. I really wanted to talk it out and get to the root of everything, etc. and maybe, just maybe, see how we could all move forward. But it's VERY apparent that MIL and FIL do not want that.
But surely you recognize the disconnect that requires some explanation here. If you've really been maintaining a superficially civil, yet distant, relationship with them for 9 months, then how do you end up in group / family therapy?
I mean, I just can't imagine what it would take for me to suggest a counseling session with my MIL.
I haven't read all the posts on here so this may have already been said: I would not stop going to family functions. If you don't go, they win. I'm just kind of stubborn like that.
It's refreshing to me that you do see your part in this whole thing. It sounds like your MIL has been petty from the get-go, but I'm sure you realize that you should not engage conversations with this woman any more.
Yes, my whole intention of going to counseling was to get everything out on the table. I knew I played a part in it, but my reactions were in response to her crappy treatment. I really wanted to talk it out and get to the root of everything, etc. and maybe, just maybe, see how we could all move forward. But it's VERY apparent that MIL and FIL do not want that.
I think it's great you set up the counseling session. Now no one can accuse you of not taking action.
And I'm glad your MIL/FIL showed their true colors to a third party. I think they're scared and insecure, and they try to hide it by acting shitty.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
All I can think of is the advice therapists give when you're involved with an emotionally abusive partner. You just don't engage them. You give them the most bland yet pleasant answers possible. This is because the abusive person is an expert manipulator - when you get upset, they are getting what they want. They need your reaction to give them the feeling of power and control. They have spent their whole lives learning how to manipulate vulnerable people to get these reactions, so don't try to beat them at this game. Stay calm and neutral.
It's you and your H's decision whether to stay in contact with his toxic parents, but if you do, don't take your MIL's bait. FB stuff is easy to ignore. Lectures about having children are easy to smile at and chuckle about, if you are secure in yourself.
Stay out of all drama. Let your H handle it. If he can't handle it, bring it to counseling. You and he keep going to counseling to make yourselves and your marriage stronger. I think you need to let go a little bit, too, of trying to make your MIL someone she's not. She's a witch, but it actually isn't your problem if you refuse to let it be.
Take it from me, my XH's mom was crazy, as in mental institution crazy, so I know what dealing with that is like. Although family dinners could be tense, I didn't take it home with me. At the end of the day, when my H and I were alone together, she had nothing to do with us (other than fucking him up in his childhood), and I didn't let crazy affect my life.
I have a lot to say, but a lot has already been said. I think it's sad if the only reason you won't have kids is because of this unhealthy dynamic - is it or do you just not want to have kids in general? Also, I wonder why you chose to marry a man who would put you in the middle instead of standing up to these people?
I have been there, I am from the north and was engaged to a very southern man who hadn't cut the cord with his parents. Everything that I did was wrong, different and wasn't family oriented to them. I was shunned and often made to feel like I was the outsider in their family. I ended up leaving before we got married because it is not what kind of partnership/life I wanted. Where in NC are you located? I am in the Raleigh area and if you'd ever like to get together and talk about all this, please let me know.
I'll admit that I skimmed, but I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle missing: How does your H feel about the situation? What does he want to do to resolve the issue? Does he want them to continue to be involved in his life, or is he ready to cut them out?
Post by Captain Serious on May 7, 2013 14:45:05 GMT -5
I think you and your MIL are both drama llamas who can't stand to not be the only important person in your husband's life. How else do you let four incidents in four years spiral into this? How else can you explain someone backing out of having their hair done with your stylist turn into "should reconsider marrying her son" and "have a long road ahead?"
You are both to blame for escalating things, and unlike others here, I do not think for one moment that you thought therapy would solve your problems other than you thought that by escalating a FB status to that level, you might finally have someone with "authority" take your side in the fight.
I think you and your MIL are both drama llamas who can't stand to not be the only important person in your husband's life. How else do you let four incidents in four years spiral into this? How else can you explain someone backing out of having their hair done with your stylist turn into "should reconsider marrying her son" and "have a long road ahead?"
You are both to blame for escalating things, and unlike others here, I do not think for one moment that you thought therapy would solve your problems other than you thought that by escalating a FB status to that level, you might finally have someone with "authority" take your side in the fight.
This is a very unfair thing to say. I never said I was innocent in all of this, but at least I have been open and willing to sit down and talk out all of these issues, and try to come up with a way that we can improve things and move on, because I WANT my DH to be able to have a good relationship with his parents. MIL is completely unwilling to sit down and discuss things like adults. I was at least trying, my intent with counseling was to have a neutral third party help walk us through these things, because if we tried to sit down just the four of us, it would be uncontrolled chaos. Even WITH a therapist, MIL wouldn't let me get a word in edgewise. So by saying I just want someone to side with me, that is nonsense.