UK Immigration changes (family)

[ninjatofu]

Innnnteresting....

www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2012/june/13-family-migration

The gist of it:

To sponsor a spouse to come to the UK a person must make a minimum of £18,600/annum. If they have a child, the minimum is £22,400 and £2,400 per annum for each additional child. So, for a UK person to bring over their wife and two children they must make a minimum of £24,800/year.

I think this is really interesting, as there is a problem here of migrants coming over as spouses and dependents and going directly onto the benefit system. Very interesting, but we'll see if it is challenged in the high court because it discriminates against ECHR's Article 8 Right to Family and Private Life of a UK citizen that doesn't make that income threshold. Hmmm...

I agree with the change in principle, though.

Other changes:

FAMILY VISAS GOING FROM 2 YEAR SETTLEMENT TO 5 YEAR SETTLEMENT. Holy crap, that's a major shakeup. I think it's good, but it's a big arse change.

No more immediate settlement for foreign spouses that have been living together overseas for more than 4 years. Ie: An American and Brit are married and live in the States, they move over to the UK - the American has to go through the 5 year marriage visa route now.

You can only get your elderly parents here if you are an only child and they are incontinent, blind, missing limbs and extremely diseased.

Fantastic!

[allibally]

I remember us talking about the income cut off before.

It's the same for family visa's in the US. Since we didn't have stable jobs in the US and we didn't live there. My parents had to "sponsor" DH's visa. I don't remember what the amount you need to make is.

[ninjatofu]

But other people can't sponsor someone here, a person's parents wouldn't make a difference.

The US has always been interesting with family and friends able to sponsor a person, I feel.

[allibally]

It is very interesting how the US sponsors it. My dad is basically responsible financially for my husband till DH decides to go for
Citizenship.

We obviously don't rely on them. Have our own home and money now. But we would of never been able to move together if it wasn't for that.

[clogged]

Looks like you guys are tightening up like everywhere else. Is that yearly wage net or gross?

Oh, and LOL on the elderly parent requirements. I am sure you played that up a bit, right? RIGHT!?!?

[ninjatofu]

It's gross.

And yes, of course. I simplified it. The real quote is:

allowing adult and elderly dependants to settle in the UK only where they can demonstrate that, as a result of age, illness or disability, they require a level of long-term personal care that can only be provided by a relative in the UK, and requiring them to apply from overseas rather than switch in the UK from another category, for example as a visitor; and

Which actually means that they need to be over 65 years old and must receive a significant amount of physical care - not just taking care of a diabetic parent that needs daily injections and food monitoring, something like physical handicaps, significant mental disabilities such as alzheimers (severe), dementia (again, severe, danger to self) and receiving near-pallative care at home. Another kicker in this wording alludes that the parent or child must not have the financial means to pay for a long term care facility in the parent's home country or elsewhere (the parent can't just choose to live with their child in the UK instead of entering into care).

I wasn't making up the only child thing. If you have siblings, you will have to prove that your siblings cannot possibly care for that parent. And no, the parent cannot simply choose which child to live with. You have to absolutely prove that the other sibling cannot possibly care for the parent, which could be proven with a chartered surveyor report of the other sibling's home confirming that it is too small for another person to live in by UK standards, which is 2 adults per bedroom in a dwelling and something like 1 bedroom for 3 children, prove their financial poverty with wage slips, bank statements, asset statements, debt statements, etc. of the sibling AND the elderly parent showing why they cannot pay for in home care themselves or enter into a long term care facility, etc.

So I simplified, but it's still pretty accurate. LOL.

[clogged]

Holy crap. If you can afford all that proof for you being the only care option, then you could probably afford care. Insane!!!

[ninjatofu]

Yep, it's not easy, and they've just made it much harder. The thing about needing to apply for that visa from outside of the UK (cannot switch from visitor route) is actually a really big deal. A lot of people got through because they would come here as a visitor and then be "too sick" to leave the care of their child in the UK. They would apply for a visa as an elderly dependent from within the UK, get refused and then appeal based on human rights grounds, and then win.

Now they cannot access those human rights grounds because they can't be refused that visa in the UK because they can't apply for that visa from within the UK - and the kicker - if they apply for that visa outside of the UK and they are refused, there is no longer a right of appeal against that decision. Human rights appeals grounds have been completely ( and sneakily ) removed from the situation. Brilliant move on the part of the UKBA, to be honest.

[cricketwife]

I mostly think this is a good thing for the U.K., but it will be a PITA if/when DH and I decide to move to the U.K. It's sort of in our "down the road" plan. He's British, but I've never lived there.

[ninjatofu]

Oh, I agree that it is a good move for the UK overall. However, I think that the vast majority of us nesties here in the UK now wouldn't get our visas if we applied now.

Most of us are here under Tier 1 General (route closed), Tier 1 PSW (route closed) after being here as a student (route dramatically changed, cannot bring dependents), Tier 2 General (I am, and wouldn't get a visa if I applied for the first time now, very difficult to get now from outside of the UK - cap on number of Tier 2 migrants from outside the UK per year unless you make over £140,000/year) or marriage dependents (some of us don't have British spouses that meet the new minimum earnings criteria). The only safe ones are the high earners and the EU spouses, really.

Also, cricketwife, the indication of how this is going to effect you when you move to the UK isn't yet clear. We know that you won't qualify for automatic settlement based on having been married and living together for at least 4 years overseas, because that route has just closed. We know that you'll have to apply for a marriage dependent visa (which will be a new visa replacing the closed route), but now that there is a minimum earnings criteria, will your husband have to have a job meeting that criteria in the UK before you apply to come here? Will he have to come here first and prove minimum earnings for a year before you can join him? Will there be a transitional visa for this purpose?

All very interesting. To me. Because I'm clearly a nerd.

[cricketwife]

Jun 12, 2012 7:58:29 GMT -5 ninjatofu said:

but now that there is a minimum earnings criteria, will your husband have to have a job meeting that criteria in the UK before you apply to come here? Will he have to come here first and prove minimum earnings for a year before you can join him?

This is what concerns me - my first thought was, crap, he'd have to go first and have me join him later, but I guess it all remains to be seen. No need to worry about it now, it's more in our 5-10 year plan, anyway. Who knows what the rules will be then?

[Deleted]

Holy crap, I know LOTS of British families who don't make that much money....

[dulcemariamar]

Jun 12, 2012 4:52:51 GMT -5 allibally said:

I remember us talking about the income cut off before.

It's the same for family visa's in the US. Since we didn't have stable jobs in the US and we didn't live there. My parents had to "sponsor" DH's visa. I don't remember what the amount you need to make is.

Do you have to have someone sponser you? Do they take into the savings you have in the bank?

[frlcb]

Jun 12, 2012 12:43:10 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Jun 12, 2012 4:52:51 GMT -5 allibally said:

I remember us talking about the income cut off before.

It's the same for family visa's in the US. Since we didn't have stable jobs in the US and we didn't live there. My parents had to "sponsor" DH's visa. I don't remember what the amount you need to make is.

Do you have to have someone sponser you? Do they take into the savings you have in the bank?

You do not have to have someone sponsor you if you can show you have a certain amount of money.

[dulcemariamar]

frlcb: Do you know the amount?

[allibally]

Jun 12, 2012 14:53:18 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

frlcb: Do you know the amount?

A lot. I don't remember the amount off the top of my head. But when you go this route your more likely to have your paperwork sent back and asked to find a different way to show financial support.

[frlcb]

Jun 12, 2012 14:53:18 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

frlcb: Do you know the amount?

Here are the guidelines:
www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-864p.pdf

Here is the form:
www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-864.pdf

[frlcb]

For 2 people it appears to be around $19000. I can tell you that we moved over with no income and were able to get by with savings/investments, but they were quite a lot higher than that amount.

[allibally]

Jun 12, 2012 15:43:31 GMT -5 frlcb said:

For 2 people it appears to be around $19000. I can tell you that we moved over with no income and were able to get by with savings/investments, but they were quite a lot higher than that amount.

But that's the amount you need to make in US income to sponsor your spouse.

I remember reading that the amount in your account needs to be much higher then that.

[allibally]

Okay I found it. If you were to sponsor your spouse through savings.

travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3183.html#6

"What Cash Value of Assets is Needed?

The total net value of assets, less liens and liabilities against them, must equal five times the difference between the sponsor's income and 125% of the poverty level for the household size

Sponsors of spouses and children of U.S. citizens must only prove assets valued at three times the difference between the poverty guideline and actual household income. "

"What can be used as assets?

Assets easily convertible to cash can be savings, stocks, bonds and property.

Can the immigrant visa applicant count assets that he or she owns that are outside the United States, such as real estate or personal property?

Yes, under the following conditions:

The assets must be convertible to cash within 12 months
The applicant must show that the assets can be removed from the country where they are located. Many countries have limits on cash or liquid assets that can removed from the country
The net value of assets is at least five times the difference between the sponsor's income and 125 percent of the poverty guideline for the household size."

[meggers5]

I don't even understand most of these changes or how they will affect bf and I if/when we get married, but I can only guess that it will now be much harder

[ninjatofu]

Pubilus: yes, no cap on company sponsored high earners of over 140k/year gross, including bonuses, but you must earn those bonuses. There is no more self spObsorship unless you gO into the investor category. For people sponsored but earning less than that amount coming into the UK for their first sponsored visa there is an annual limit of something like 22,000 people. The higher your earnings the better your chances.

[ninjatofu]

Meggers: is he British? If so, you should still be fine if he makes enough money. If he's not, well, I heard Australia is nice.

[blushing]

Jun 12, 2012 7:58:29 GMT -5 ninjatofu said:

Oh, I agree that it is a good move for the UK overall. However, I think that the vast majority of us nesties here in the UK now wouldn't get our visas if we applied now.

The only safe ones are the high earners and the EU spouses, really.

And me! I am on an ancestral visa. They have not broken those ones yet, lol.

[meggers5]

Jun 13, 2012 1:07:32 GMT -5 ninjatofu said:

Meggers: is he British? If so, you should still be fine if he makes enough money. If he's not, well, I heard Australia is nice.

He's not British yet. He gets his indefinite leave to remain next year, then my understanding is that he is able to get citizenship not too long after that.
He makes enough money, but I'm guessing that until he's a citizen I can't go over with him (on his visa), even if we're married?

[pittpurple]

Ugh, I guess I can't get my dad over here then. We had a vague fantasy of my dad moving over here and babysitting for us. He can support himself, but he needs the NHS. Hm... now I'm wondering if I could sponsor him as a nanny?
It's all always so complicated!!

[cupcakes]

Jun 12, 2012 11:51:57 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Holy crap, I know LOTS of British families who don't make that much money....

Really?
I do not consider myself a high income earner by any standard, teacher and I earn more than that on my own. I'm honestly shocked by the LOTS.

Is it because I live in London?

[ninjatofu]

I think living in lOndon is part of it.

[cupcakes]

Jun 13, 2012 11:46:37 GMT -5 ninjatofu said:

I think living in lOndon is part of it.

I know the teacher's salery is several thousand more for living in London.

I think a starting teacher earns £23,000 out of London and inner London it's £27,000. Then London breaks down more between 23 and 27 for the first year of teaching, going up each year with expirence. Just as a starting point though.

[frlcb]

Jun 13, 2012 11:30:20 GMT -5 cupcakes said:

Jun 12, 2012 11:51:57 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Holy crap, I know LOTS of British families who don't make that much money....

Really?
I do not consider myself a high income earner by any standard, teacher and I earn more than that on my own. I'm honestly shocked by the LOTS.

Is it because I live in London?

I was thinking this too, but maybe it is also because we lived in London. Although our friends who live in Ncastle and York make more than that as well.