Nearly 50 years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that people accused of a crime deserve the right to a defense lawyer, no matter whether they can afford to pay for one. But there's no such guarantee when it comes to civil disputes — like evictions and child custody cases — even though they have a huge impact on people's lives.
For decades, federal and state governments have pitched in to help. But money pressures mean the system for funding legal aid programs for the poor is headed toward a crisis.
A Legal ER
On a recent morning, one block from city hall in downtown Baltimore, a few dozen people crowd into a waiting room. The light is dim and the mood is downcast, except for a toddler in a pink stroller singing her ABCs.
This isn't a hospital. But it is a kind of emergency room, for people who need help, right away, with all kinds of legal problems.
One of them is Baltimore cab driver Rodney Taylor, who says he's "here at legal aid today to receive some help because I'm trying to get custody of my son." Another is Jasalle Coates, "here because I've been given the runaround about my property." And then there's a middle-aged lady in fashionable black glasses who didn't want to give her name, to protect her brother in a nursing home from possible retaliation.
"I need to see what his rights are," she says, "because he was not given medication, he was not fed, he was soaking wet, he had black eyes. His head was busted. And I feel that was abuse."
At Maryland's Legal Aid Bureau, the doors are open every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
"Some days," says Joe Rohr, a veteran lawyer at legal aid, "we actually have to close early because of the volume."
He has just come back from the courthouse, where he tried to help a woman who's pregnant and blind keep her gas and electricity service.
"The problem is, we have far more clients coming in than we have available staff to fully represent everyone," Rohr says.
'A State Of Crisis'
Even though Baltimore's population has dropped over the past decade, the number of poor people who need legal advice has gone through the roof — more senior citizens and more homeowners who lost their jobs, lawyers here say. All over the country, legal aid programs have had to be more choosey about the cases they accept.
"The legal services system in the United States today is in a state of crisis," says Jim Sandman, president of the national Legal Services Corp., which gives money to 135 aid programs all over the country.
The traditional funding streams, from Congress and state governments, are under attack. Aside from government dollars, there's another important source of financing for legal aid: interest that collects on trust accounts that lawyers set up for their clients. But because of record low interest rates, that money has hit record lows, too.
Over the past couple of years, Sandman estimates, more than 1,200 people who work for legal aid programs — 1 in 7 — have lost their jobs. Offices in rural Arkansas and North Carolina have closed outright. But Sandman says more than 60 million people now qualify for civil legal aid.
"We're talking about access to justice here," he says. "Access to justice is a fundamental American value. We have a great legal system in the United States, but it's built on the premise that you have a lawyer. And if you don't have a lawyer, the system often doesn't work for you."
One example, Sandman says, is that some programs are so stretched that they've had to draw excruciating lines.
"Imagine that — a woman being abused who comes in to seek a protective order against an abuser who may have a lawyer himself, and she's turned away because there aren't children involved," he says.
Scandals And New Pressures
Congress is debating how much money to give to Legal Services nationwide in the coming year. But former Legal Services officials like Ken Boehm have urged lawmakers to take a closer look before allocating public funds.
"Many of the checks and balances and reforms and methods of accountability you would find in any other government agency just aren't there," says Boehm, who runs the National Legal and Policy Center, which tries to expose corruption in Washington.
He says Legal Services — which operates as a nonprofit group, not a federal agency — has not always been the best shepherd of public money.
"You know, expensive hotels, expensive desserts, expensive travel. Limousine travel by board members to get to meetings by an anti-poverty group is not anybody's idea of good public relations," he adds.
The program in Maryland has had its share of scandal, too. Spokesman Joe Surkiewicz talks about an episode here two years ago: "Our chief financial officer, who's now serving time in prison, stole several million dollars from Legal Aid in a scheme with an outside vender for office supplies," Surkiewicz says. "We've put it behind us; we've completely revamped our financial program and our financial unit."
(harpy's note: It's awful that this happens, but isn't this an argument for instituting better oversight, not just eliminating funding? The vast majority of people who work for legal services groups are not living high on the hog. Most - gasp! - first-year public school teachers make at least as much, if not more, than most entry level legal services attorneys.
But the Maryland Legal Aid bureau, which is financially healthier than most, is facing down some new pressures. A state law that funnels a few dollars in fees to legal aid groups every time someone files a civil lawsuit will expire next year.
"That is the source of my very short nights every night, including last night," executive director Wilhelm Joseph says. "I am thinking about 2013 every day."
So much is unsettled, Joseph says. "What will it take to make sure that the powers that be who exercise their discretion understand the need to continue doing the right thing?"
That's a question legal aid leaders all over the country are asking.
I graduated from law school a long time ago and even then, the emphasis on post-graduation service to the poor was disappearing, despite lofty pre-enrollment rhetoric to the contrary.
I actually chose my school in large part because it offered a family law legal services clinic; this was shut down at the start of my first year. I met with the Chancellor and was told the funding wasn't there.
I ended up doing an elder law clinic (yes, seriously). I also volunteered at a family law services clinic that was not connected with the school and that operated on a shoestring budget. What I learned was that, at least in that small part of the world, and when the economy was humming along, legal services to the indigent were highly dependent upon free labor from law students desperate for experience, and a few minimum wage employees.
This is my long-ass way of saying that I actually don't see funding issues as an altogether new phenomenon.
Also, my Autocorrect tried to change "shut" to "shit." This is such a sad commentary on my posting tendencies.
This is terrible. I know funding's been cut for a lot of different things, but I'm very uncomfortable with lack of funding preventing people from accessing our justice system. The legal aid system has to work and should be a funding priority.
LM has a great point about law school alumni. Even if you pick a cheaper law school, you'll likely still have loans to pay back even if you aspire to work in legal aid.
Post by iammalcolmx on Jun 15, 2012 8:41:54 GMT -5
I had a friend who worked at Legal Aid. She didn't make much and always had a second job. She would be in court on a regular basis and dealt with alot of women needing help because of domestic violence.
The vast majority of lawyers are fucking miserable, insane assholes.
ETA: I must confess I laughed at this question because to me the answer is self-evident. Occasionally I have to remind myself that I have spent so much time in Tim Gunn's proverbial monkey cage that what's obvious to me isn't necessarily so to others.
I had a friend who worked at Legal Aid. She didn't make much and always had a second job.
I went to law school very interested in working for legal services. Despite a large scholarship, I still have loans too large to make that salary work.
I like being a lawyer, but only because I know shit other people don't. Even something as simple as understanding a warranty and arguing (and winning) when they try to deny a claim. But I never worked in a firm - I did a non-traditional career path. And almost every other lawyer I know is an asshole (but clearly not me).
Does anyone do GAL? I've been thinking of doing that with my free time....
FYI - I didn't delete IIOY's post. I had just went in to edit to remove the quote and it was deleted by another mod. (Posting this as a CMA declaration.)
I had a friend who worked at Legal Aid. She didn't make much and always had a second job.
I went to law school very interested in working for legal services. Despite a large scholarship, I still have loans too large to make that salary work.
That's a whopping $2,925 more than a teacher in the Oshkosh Area School District makes with a bachelor's degree and no experience.
I'm not saying that's not a shitty salary, but I do know of law firms in Chicago who pay associates that much. Or did fairly recently. And Chicago is more expensive than Oshkosh.
And there are probably a ton of graduates from John Marshall and Chicago Kent who would happily take those jobs.
On could say that this is what heppens when the free market is applied to education (oversaturation of law schools leads to surplice of attorneys and drives down salaries).
Post by basilosaurus on Jun 15, 2012 9:47:03 GMT -5
My FIL is a public defender in a small town/county. He's old and went to law school ages ago, so I'm guessing no loans. Still I don't think he has all that much money. His office is in a trailer, and,Lit at least prior to his girlfriend, he also lived there. Literally, he had a recliner in his office, and that's where he slept. I don't know how much of that is due to him being poor vs being cheap.
On the flip side, he knew most of the juvies in town, and they watched out for him.
Also, MrsA - what about all the lawyers on this board - we aren't assholes, are we?!
Well, technically I don't "know" you, so you're clearly not included!
GAL = guardian ad litem.
SBP- that's my concern. Seems like there will be lots of pretty depressing situations. DH is encouraging me to check it out, though. It's not like I'm too busy to help.
TRUTH. I mean, we're loveable assholes, but still, we're probably all fucking assholes.
I would say that my lawyer friends probably think I am not an asshole and am just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, but my non-lawyer friends probably think I'm a total (loveable) asshole. LOL.
As to the OP - it is sad but not unexpected or surprising or, as IIOY pointed out, something new (in that its not as if legal aid places were rolling in the money 5 years ago.)
TRUTH. I mean, we're loveable assholes, but still, we're probably all fucking assholes.
We should have lawyer GTG and find out.
We will either wind up hating one another because, you know, we're ASSHOLES, or we will end up having a wicked cool orgy full of bad puns using Latin legal terms. Because we're ASSHOLES.
TRUTH. I mean, we're loveable assholes, but still, we're probably all fucking assholes.
I would say that my lawyer friends probably think I am not an asshole and am just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, but my non-lawyer friends probably think I'm a total (loveable) asshole. LOL.
Your lawyer friends don't think your an asshole because they're assholes, too.
I would say that my lawyer friends probably think I am not an asshole and am just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, but my non-lawyer friends probably think I'm a total (loveable) asshole. LOL.
Your lawyer friends don't think your an asshole because they're assholes, too.
We will either wind up hating one another because, you know, we're ASSHOLES, or we will end up having a wicked cool orgy full of bad puns using Latin legal terms. Because we're ASSHOLES.
Also TRUTH.
Fortunately for me, even my non-lawyer friends are assholes, so we all get along great.
I heard this this morning on NPR and thought (because I am really looking for a change in my career), I should go work at a legal aid clinic. It should be so much more satisfying than this shit. Then I heard the stuff about how they're actually laying people off because they can't afford them. So it's not like there aren't lawyers who want to work there; it's that they can't afford the lawyers (who believe me, are not making 175K a year). So then I started thinking, well, maybe I could volunteer one day a week but then I quickly remembered that you cannot handle a litigation load of cases working one day a week. Things would happen on your files when you weren't there and it would be a cluster. You'd miss statutes, filing deadlines, phone calls, emergencies. I have no idea what the solution is.
I really believe that there needs to be two classes of law schools.
There's the formal 3 year law school model that we have now, that is more academic than practical.
But there needs to be an alternative to that - something that is in between a paralegal certificate and law school. Maybe it's an 18 month practical program. Or perhaps it's just an extension of undergrad. You major in law, and there's significant internship requirements. And that's it.
Everyone is subject to the same character and fitness requirements. People could take the bar, or they could take a limited bar which allowed them to dispense legal advice only on narrow categories of topics, as well as make court appearances.
There will always be jobs that will require the 3 year law school from prestigious schools or the standard bar. But making a cheaper, practical law school and changing the entry requirements would make it easier for people that most need the help to get it.
Most people who cannot afford legal services do not need complicated help. They need assistance with very routine collections matters, property/housing disputes, and family law issues. Most of these things can be handled without someone going through law school as we know it.
The other benefit of this plan would be that most of these diploma mills would be run out of business. People could still fulfill their dreams of being a lawyer, but they'd actually graduate with job skills and low enough student debt to take jobs that paid $35k a year.
I would say that my lawyer friends probably think I am not an asshole and am just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, but my non-lawyer friends probably think I'm a total (loveable) asshole. LOL.
Your lawyer friends don't think your an asshole because they're assholes, too.
Oh it's more than that. My lawyer friends dont think I'm an asshole because they are all significantly bigger assholes than I am. So in my lawyer-friends circle I'm the nicest one with one exception lol.
We should definitely have a lawyer GTG. Except I dont know any Latin terms really anymore but I can talk a lot about federal disability. Is that cool enough?
I worked at legal aid clinics in law school, it wasn't for me. I felt like I needed to be part lawyer part social worker and just don't have the skills to be the latter.
Also I'm not an ass hole and I Iike my job but I can be a bit of a B.
Question - when I cease being a lawyer, will the asshole go away?
Only when you reach the point where you can argue with a stranger without thinking in the back of your mind that you are going to play the lawyer card if this person doesn't back the fuck off.
Question - when I cease being a lawyer, will the asshole go away?
Only when you reach the point where you can argue with a stranger without thinking in the back of your mind that you are going to play the lawyer card if this person doesn't back the fuck off.
Only when you reach the point where you can argue with a stranger without thinking in the back of your mind that you are going to play the lawyer card if this person doesn't back the fuck off.
LOL.
Oooh, some potentially good "get me out of being a lawyer" news! The boss of the department I'm in is going to introduce me to HR here, to see if I can find anything (corporate giving, risk management and security, etc) else to do at this company.
Good options! I liked risk management and corporate compliance.
Only when you reach the point where you can argue with a stranger without thinking in the back of your mind that you are going to play the lawyer card if this person doesn't back the fuck off.
LOL.
Oooh, some potentially good "get me out of being a lawyer" news! The boss of the department I'm in is going to introduce me to HR here, to see if I can find anything (corporate giving, risk management and security, etc) else to do at this company.