I'm not being snarky and I won't even argue with whatever your answer is... But I just cannot wrap my head around why a 27-year-old with no known medical issues but a ton of debt would entertain this point of view.
Waiting six months to a year and getting your finances in order first would make SUCH A HUGE, MASSIVE DIFFERENCE to your - and your child's - financial wellbeing that I'm just flabbergasted over here.
So I'm seriously curious.
You're not going to like my answer. Basically, there is no way I can live life trying to plan for every possible contingency. The risk is fairly small and I believe we'd find a way to get through it if something bad happened.
Thanks for being honest and answering my question. You're right - I don't like your answer. But I promised not to argue, so I'll just wish you luck instead. I truly hope it all works out for you.
First, I love your wedding photos. You guys are adorable.
some thoughts on your finances and plan: in my experience, there's often a huge difference between what my finances can theoretically look like on paper and what they look like in reality. Are you accounting for things like gifts, home repairs, medical bills, car repairs, etc? I swear a ton of our (imaginary lol) "extra" goes to these things.
id hate to see you plan a huge step like TTC on an untested budget. You're talking abut finding an extra $1600 in your budget--that's a huge cut back and again, may or may not be realistic. Why not take six months and make sure it's really workable? The bonus is you'll be that much closer to being out of debt by the time you have a baby even if you have to adjust your budget a bit.
finally, I'd caution you against assuming you won't realllllllly want to splurge on some fun baby items once the time comes. That goes double if you're a spender by nature. By planning for those things you can really enjoy them guilt free.
The great news here is that you absolutely have the income to get out of debt and make a secure future for your family. Take advantage of that! The last thing you want to do is end up in more debt by failing to really give the budget a test run before plunging into parenthood.
i was going to come back and write this exact post. i really don't want to pile on with the delayed ttc idea, but just caution you more about reality.
h and i have a really similar story to you (we're paying off student loans), except we've had several years practice of living on a tight budget and we have a solid emergency fund behind us. now that we have two incomes and a plan to pay off our loans quickly, i find myself pregnant and our plans completely derailed. we'll still make good progress in the next seven and a half months, but we just can't meet our original goals. it's turned a 14 month plan into a 2.5-3 year plan.
i wish we would have had the opportunity to get ourselves in a better financial position before ttc. we'll still accomplish our goals, but this is going to put us behind for years. not pessimistic, just real life.
you have a great opportunity! i just don't want to see your efforts and your enthusiasm get derailed so quickly.
Good for you to keep reading the posts, evethose that are a little less helpful in tone.
I just wanted to add that you should keep the vacations, but you mentioned buying souveniers and doing activities while on the cruise. Not saying you can't spend a penny while on your trip, but souveniers are usually a total waste of money, and those port activities are usually very pricey. Cruises are excellent at letting you spend money uselessly...I think the cruise will be a great "test" to see if you've cut back your spending habits, and only buy what you can really truly afford.
I'm not being snarky and I won't even argue with whatever your answer is... But I just cannot wrap my head around why a 27-year-old with no known medical issues but a ton of debt would entertain this point of view.
Waiting six months to a year and getting your finances in order first would make SUCH A HUGE, MASSIVE DIFFERENCE to your - and your child's - financial wellbeing that I'm just flabbergasted over here.
So I'm seriously curious.
You're not going to like my answer. Basically, there is no way I can live life trying to plan for every possible contingency. The risk is fairly small and I believe we'd find a way to get through it if something bad happened.
Actually, it's not small. Most people I know had to take some time off unexpectedly from work due to pregnancy. I was on bed rest for a few months - I had HG, shingles, panic attacks and my back went out when pg. I was a healthy 28 year old who ran a half marathon right before I got pg and conceived on the first month we really tried. I also had a c-section, and my delivery/prenatal care cost me $5000 out of pocket even with insurance.
Oh and I got laid off when DD was 6 months old. Part of it was because my work suffered when pg bc I was so sick, and the time i had to take off. It was a layoff but I know I was chosen over others bc of this.
Please realize that most of us are saying to wait because have done this already and we know that the unexpected is much more common than you think.
My surprises started when I found out there were two. This was completely unexpected. This also put me directly into the high risk category with a gazillion ultrasounds that were not covered by insurance ranging from $1200 to $2000 EACH.
I didn't read the entire thread, but i read enough to know that nothing anyone says about TTC is going to change your mind, but don't be surprised when the kid puts you further in debt b/c you haven't had the chance to pay anything down, or b/c you simply haven't gotten into the habit of spending wisely
I don't want to bash you re:ttc but I think you are burying your head in the sand about costs of pregnancy and delivery. I had a great pregnancy, no swelling, no high blood pressure, etc. DS was breech so we had a c/s, then due to being breech he had some minor medical concerns so we had an ultrasound on his hips, ultrasound and a ct scan on a knot on his neck, bloodwork about the knot, physical therapy weekly from 4 weeks to 10 weeks to work out the knot. Then a month after going back to work, i had to have surgery to remove my appendix. I had hit my out of pocket max with the delivery but omg it would have been so stressful to worry about money for all of those appointments. I would seriously urge you to take a 6 month break, get most of your bills under control and start trying again. These costs,plus cribs, strollers, etc all add up.
You're not going to like my answer. Basically, there is no way I can live life trying to plan for every possible contingency. The risk is fairly small and I believe we'd find a way to get through it if something bad happened.
Actually, it's not small. Most people I know had to take some time off unexpectedly from work due to pregnancy. I was on bed rest for a few months - I had HG, shingles, panic attacks and my back went out when pg. I was a healthy 28 year old who ran a half marathon right before I got pg and conceived on the first month we really tried. I also had a c-section, and my delivery/prenatal care cost me $5000 out of pocket even with insurance.
Oh and I got laid off when DD was 6 months old. Part of it was because my work suffered when pg bc I was so sick, and the time i had to take off. It was a layoff but I know I was chosen over others bc of this.
Please realize that most of us are saying to wait because have done this already and we know that the unexpected is much more common than you think.
I was younger than you when I got planned pregnant. I had a very healthy, normal pregnancy. I was normal weight before. No health problems. No problems getting pregnant. Nothing to suggest I would have problems later. I went in for an induction and at 10cm we found out the baby had flipped breech from a previous head down position. Off for an emergency c/s. Recovery was ok. But I ended up with two collapsed lungs, pneumonia, pleural effusion, and a massive uterine infection turning septic. Back into the hospital I went for a week while my jaundiced baby was at my mom's house on the bili blanket. $50,000 later I was home. Oh yeah, those were just my costs.Normal baby stay in hospital? $4000. Bili blanket? $50 a day. Labs every 2 days? $150/day. Each of the follow up CT scans I had for the next couple months? $4000 each. I live in a VLCOL. You.Can.Not.Plan.For.This.
Waiting a couple months to test your theoretical budget is not a big deal. I promise you. You don't want to look back and say, "I should have waited" and in the end, you'll be in a much better place.
I just want to throw out that I'm 31, my husband and I want 2 kids, 2.5-3 years apart, and I won't be TTCing until next year. So if everything goes well, I might have kids at 33 and 36 (maybe slightly earlier). Is it ideal? Probably not. Also, my husband is 8 years older than I am. We'll be nearing retirement age by the time our kids are finishing college. But we still have financial things to take care of. (I also want to get a new job and be there a year before having to take leave.) We were both in grad school until fairly late, we both made financial mistakes in our youth, and we now are in a good spot to really pay down out debt. We also rent. If we ever want to buy a home, save for our children's college education, pay for extra curricular activities, replace my car with something more family-friendly (it's a 2 door compact), I know getting pregnant now would not be a good idea. In fact, I would be FREAKED and completely stressed out if I got pregnant now. We COULD pay for daycare and extras and also put money towards debt, but not a lot. A year from now? We should have most of our debt paid off. Once we do that, we would technically be able to live off my husband's income easily if something went wrong and I couldn't work for a few months. I'm really looking forward to not having the financial stress!
Listen, the majority of pregnancies in the US are unplanned. There are plenty of people with debt and who suck at finances who have children. I have friends and family members who are raising 2-3 kids on barely more than minimum wage. God bless them, I don't know how they do it. Well, actually, the have family members look after their children rather than day care or preschool, they live in cramped and sometimes dangerous housing, or with other family members, and they never plan on sending their children to private school or college. Which is the reality for a lot of people, but it doesn't HAVE to be for your, and I think that's why some people are kind of frustrated with your insistence on TTCing.
I wish you well, and I do hope you are easily able to get pregnant when you wish to do so!
Actually, it's not small. Most people I know had to take some time off unexpectedly from work due to pregnancy. I was on bed rest for a few months - I had HG, shingles, panic attacks and my back went out when pg. I was a healthy 28 year old who ran a half marathon right before I got pg and conceived on the first month we really tried. I also had a c-section, and my delivery/prenatal care cost me $5000 out of pocket even with insurance.
Oh and I got laid off when DD was 6 months old. Part of it was because my work suffered when pg bc I was so sick, and the time i had to take off. It was a layoff but I know I was chosen over others bc of this.
Please realize that most of us are saying to wait because have done this already and we know that the unexpected is much more common than you think.
I was younger than you when I got planned pregnant. I had a very healthy, normal pregnancy. I was normal weight before. No health problems. No problems getting pregnant. Nothing to suggest I would have problems later. I went in for an induction and at 10cm we found out the baby had flipped breech from a previous head down position. Off for an emergency c/s. Recovery was ok. But I ended up with two collapsed lungs, pneumonia, pleural effusion, and a massive uterine infection turning septic. Back into the hospital I went for a week while my jaundiced baby was at my mom's house on the bili blanket. $50,000 later I was home. Oh yeah, those were just my costs.Normal baby stay in hospital? $4000. Bili blanket? $50 a day. Labs every 2 days? $150/day. Each of the follow up CT scans I had for the next couple months? $4000 each. I live in a VLCOL. You.Can.Not.Plan.For.This.
Waiting a couple months to test your theoretical budget is not a big deal. I promise you. You don't want to look back and say, "I should have waited" and in the end, you'll be in a much better place.
I am so sorry to read. I hope you are doing better.
Just chiming in to say that waiting a few months (or even a year) to conceive at your age isn't a big deal. I don't have a horror story for my DD- I worked until the day my water broke, normal hospital stay, minimal costs after insurance... But, I was out of work UNPAID for 8 weeks and really should have stayed home longer. She is 18 months now and a total money suck. Daycare, diapers (even though we CD), formula/food (I BFed but now she eats like a linebacker!!), toys, clothes, classes, activities, etc.
We knew we wanted kids but paying off debt was priority number 1 because I knew that I wanted things to be easier when we had kids. Conceiving later is an option. Not paying bills is not a (good) option. So we waited a couple years. Best decision ever, because now when we have #2 I can stay home! Had we rushed into the kids thing and said "we'll figure out the money and debt as we go" I would be miserable. I should add, I just turned 29, so I am no spinster.
I get your feelings, but just wanted to give my two cents.
When I'm talking about souvenirs, I mean like.. a shot glass for $5 nothing crazy.
I don't mean to pick - maybe you are someone who truly loves souvenirs and keeps them on display at home forever, and in that case $5 is worth it to you - but this is the kind of thinking that leads to overspending without you even noticing. Just make sure you're aware of these thoughts and stop to ask yourself if you really want to spend 6% of your personal budget on a shot glass.
Good for you to keep reading the posts, evethose that are a little less helpful in tone.
I just wanted to add that you should keep the vacations, but you mentioned buying souveniers and doing activities while on the cruise. Not saying you can't spend a penny while on your trip, but souveniers are usually a total waste of money, and those port activities are usually very pricey. Cruises are excellent at letting you spend money uselessly...I think the cruise will be a great "test" to see if you've cut back your spending habits, and only buy what you can really truly afford.
Good luck and keep making progress!
When I'm talking about souvenirs, I mean like.. a shot glass for $5 nothing crazy. As far as port activities, I'm going with a group for a bachelorette party for my best friend. I'm not going to suggest activities and will try to steer the group towards cheaper stuff, but I'm not going to opt out of something that the bride wants to do as part of her bachelorette party, because that might result in hurt feelings. That's where I expect the bulk of my money that is spent while on the cruise to go. I don't drink much alcohol, but I will likely buy her a drink or two while we're there. I'm planning on taking a set dollar amount in cash, and putting a credit card packed away in my bag (in case I break a leg in Cozumel or something) that I won't use.
I think overall, though, you're right that it will be a good test for me. Can I keep it minimal? I think I can!
If you are going to get serious about debt payoff, you need to get comfortable with the following phase "I'd love to but that's not in our budget right now." You can suggest free/less expensive options, but if they don't go for them you have to be able to say no. And if you are worried about hurt feelings, bring it up to the bride now and not when you all deboarding the boat at a port and ready to go. If you don't want to tell her about the debt, just blame it on general buckling down due to ttc.
There will always be *something* and you can't let it derail your plan.
I don't mean to pick - maybe you are someone who truly loves souvenirs and keeps them on display at home forever, and in that case $5 is worth it to you - but this is the kind of thinking that leads to overspending without you even noticing. Just make sure you're aware of these thoughts and stop to ask yourself if you really want to spend 6% of your personal budget on a shot glass.
We've got a basement bar that has a display case with one shot glass from all the different trips. It's a fun display case. I'm totally willing to spend the money on it.
From your last few posts, I think it is very easy to see how you got into this situation, and I think it is going to be a lot harder to get out of it than you are making it out to be on paper. You seem very good at justifying your spending habits. Think about just the past few things you've said here. You've already paid for the trips, so you're going. It's a friend's bachelorette, you don't want to hurt her feelings, so you're doing the excursions. You have shot glasses from all your trips, it's only $5, etc.
This stuff all adds up, and quickly. That's how life is. As a pp mentioned, there will ALWAYS be something. I know you don't want to touch this issue, but seriously, it's going to be worse with a kid. No one wants to deprive their kid of anything, and everyone wants to buy all of the adorable baby stuff. How on earth are you going to say no to that if you can't say no to a shot glass?
As far as TTC goes: I've heard you, but I really think we can swing this. IF I get pregnant tomorrow (which, LOL, can't--not Oing, and probably will be away from H during FW this month anyway so it'll probably be another month AT LEAST).. I have 9 months. By which time, our debt will have been cut down SIGNIFICANTLY. We would be able to slow (not halt!) our progress on the debt once the baby is here in order to pay for this hypothetical child that may or may not be conceived in the next few months.
Anyhow, advice related to any part of my finances OTHER THAN THE TTC stuff is still totally welcome, but more lectures on TTC-related finances are basically going to fall on deaf ears.
This was my attitude when I got pg with ds - I'd pay off the debt during the 9 months when I was pregnant. Unfortunately I was put on bedrest and my income was slashed because I was on disability a lot longer than anticipated, so it didn't really happen the way I planned. And going into pregnancy I was healthier than I had ever been in my life, ideal BMI, dancing 4-5 hours a day up until 20 week pg, no morning sickness, nothing. Until 32 weeks when I went into labor early and was put on bedrest, so it wasn't something anyone anticipated. My ob was shocked because I'd had such a textbook easy pregnancy up to that point.
I'd find out what daycare costs in your area and start throwing that amount at your debt every month now. That will get you used to living off a budget similar to what you will have when you have a baby and get the debt down all at the same time.
From your last few posts, I think it is very easy to see how you got into this situation, and I think it is going to be a lot harder to get out of it than you are making it out to be on paper. You seem very good at justifying your spending habits. Think about just the past few things you've said here. You've already paid for the trips, so you're going. It's a friend's bachelorette, you don't want to hurt her feelings, so you're doing the excursions. You have shot glasses from all your trips, it's only $5, etc.
This stuff all adds up, and quickly. That's how life is. As a pp mentioned, there will ALWAYS be something. I know you don't want to touch this issue, but seriously, it's going to be worse with a kid. No one wants to deprive their kid of anything, and everyone wants to buy all of the adorable baby stuff. How on earth are you going to say no to that if you can't say no to a shot glass?
Isn't that life, though? I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I'm going to cut way, way down on what I had originally planned on spending on the trip. I'm using the money I have in my personal non-bill-paying account for these trips, and I made a separate budget for the next two weeks, based on the money I have and what I think is realistic for the trips that are planned.
I'm not saying I'm going to do every excursion ever just because the bride wants to, just that I will probably do one or two with her.
Losing weight was hard, too. I think this is going to be a similar journey. There will be ups and downs. There will be days that are super frustrating and there will be days where I'll feel really proud. I'm going to make mistakes, experience set-backs, and then I'm going to pick myself up from them and move on and continue making progress.
There will always be something, and sometimes these life things are worth the money, even if it means that I'll be in debt a little longer. I know that's not the MM thing to say, but I am just looking to find some balance.
I am not perfect, and my bank account certainly isn't either, but I'm going to get my finances a bit healthier, if only one step (and credit card payment) at a time.
I'm making progress now, and I'm not going to let someone tell me that I'm not doing "enough" right now and that that means I'll fail. I won't. I know that being realistic about what I have to do and still be happy and healthy and have a full life is so important to my mental stability, and I'm not going to sacrifice that to be MM perfect.
I'm going to do my best, and that's all I really want to do anyway.
I get it, I do. No one is perfectly MM, except maybe Sisu, lol. It just seems from your posts that you aren't really ready or willing to draw a hard line in the sand to stop the spending and pay down the debt, and I fear that when you add a child to the mix, it is going to be close to impossible to pay it off.
Losing weight was hard, too. I think this is going to be a similar journey. There will be ups and downs. There will be days that are super frustrating and there will be days where I'll feel really proud. I'm going to make mistakes, experience set-backs, and then I'm going to pick myself up from them and move on and continue making progress.
I think this is a great perspective and will serve you well on this journey.
To continue the weight loss analogy, though, I think what people are saying here is that overhauling your financial life with a child on the way is like losing 75 lbs with a broken leg. Can it be done? Sure. Will it be much, much more difficult? Absolutely. Don't break your own leg before you start the process.
And yes, you can slow down the debt payback and take five years instead of one to pay this off. But as you mentioned above, you're putting off other financial needs while you tend to this. So it's not just a matter of choosing to pay extra interest for the convenience of not paying it off quickly, it may also be a matter of when -- or, if your state retirement plan is cut, whether -- you'll be able to retire. When financial obligations are pushed back, it's so easy for the little (and big) things that crop up to keep taking precedence.
Wanting to live a balanced life and not be perfect is fine, and your optimism is admirable. But I worry that a couple of setbacks could really make things spiral out of control for you. Maybe you're the type of person who doesn't let those scary scenarios get to you -- and maybe you'll be lucky enough to come out paying an over-inflated price on shot glasses and otherwise remain relatively unscathed -- but I would think it would be worth it to start the next phase of your life with 1) more peace of mind and 2) more stability for your family.
Still wishing you lots of luck! And I agree I hope you stick around!
Post by vanillacourage on Jul 16, 2013 15:55:02 GMT -5
Just wanted to throw out for when you set your budget since you said childcare would be XYZ "for the school year" - I've never found a place that will let you pull your kid out for three months without losing your spot and/or paying a re-enrollment fee. So, unless there are always lots of spots at your chosen daycare (which would be unusual for a quality place), you may need to pay for the full year even if you are off on summer vacation. Just FYI.
A lot of bankrupt people start this way. I'm sure you'll think that's dramatic, but if I had a dollar for every couple who told me the same type of story in credit counseling, I could probably retire tomorrow.
Post by stealthmom on Jul 16, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -5
Actually, if she lost 75 lbs. and has kept it off long term, to me, it adds a lot of credibility to her plan. VERY few people can say they have done what she has done.
I just wanted to say GOOD LUCK with your plan - you've been getting a fair amount of crap here but please stay motivated. I know you and your H can do this!!!!
bricco, I think this is a great idea! That way you can get this kind of motivation monthly. It's like financial Weight Watchers meetings.
Of course she does not OWE us an update, but it might make her more accountable and help stay on her plan. Or - help identify the weaknesses in the plan. Much better than a plea for help 10 months from know with a worsening disaster.
Actually, if she lost 75 lbs. and has kept it off long term, to me, it adds a lot of credibility to her plan. VERY few people can say they have done what she has done.
Actually, if she lost 75 pounds and kept it off, it sounds like she replaced one issue with another issue.
Ya know what? Maybe she did. It's not unheard of. It doesn't matter. That doesn't take away from the fact that she is recognizing the problem and tackling it. It doesn't mean she won't be able to kick this issue too.
But fuck you very much for kicking someone when they're down. There was a lot of tough love given in this thread but everyone was compassionate and the responses came from a good place- until your response.
Actually, if she lost 75 lbs. and has kept it off long term, to me, it adds a lot of credibility to her plan. VERY few people can say they have done what she has done.
Actually, if she lost 75 pounds and kept it off, it sounds like she replaced one issue with another issue.
^o)
This was rude either way, but I'm especially side eyeing this because you've shared your own struggle with weight on here. You should know better, no?
Actually, if she lost 75 pounds and kept it off, it sounds like she replaced one issue with another issue.
This was rude either way, but I'm especially side eyeing this because you've shared your own struggle with weight on here. You should know better, no?
SueSue does not do mean nor snark on the boards. You can count on her advice. It comes from an intelligent woman with real life under her belt. She knows of which she speaks. And yes, if the underlying issues that caused the previous weight problem were never resolved, they could be showing their ugly heads in financial overspending. The root causes are the same. I accused Bricco of living in financial la-la land and so far have not been convinced by her posts that I am wrong. Time will tell. I DO want her to be successful and make the needed changes, however, the mindset to do so is just not there, yet, IMO.
This was rude either way, but I'm especially side eyeing this because you've shared your own struggle with weight on here. You should know better, no?
SueSue does not do mean nor snark on the boards. You can count on her advice. It comes from an intelligent woman with real life under her belt. She knows of which she speaks. And yes, if the underlying uses that caused the previous weight problem were never resolved, they could be showing their ugly heads in financial overspending. The root causes are the same. I accused Bricco of living in financial la-la land and so far have not been convinced by her posts that I am wrong. Time will tell. I DO want her to be successful and make the needed changes, however, the mindset to do so is just not there, yet, IMO.
You and suesue are both making a huge ass assumption that the weight was gained due to behavioral choices alone. And even if it was, I stand by my WTFing.
Please don't delude yourself into thinking that was constructive advice. A million more helpful, and more relevant, things could have been said.
Actually, if she lost 75 lbs. and has kept it off long term, to me, it adds a lot of credibility to her plan. VERY few people can say they have done what she has done.
Actually, if she lost 75 pounds and kept it off, it sounds like she replaced one issue with another issue.
Come on really? Fucking Fat Tuesday gets me every time.