For those that lived together before marriage

[2vermont]

I would like to know what made you decide to get married.

I have a family member who is living with someone right now and feels "stuck". Her fiance (they recently got engaged) is having a tough time moving from this living arrangement to marriage. She suspects it is because of a lot bad experiences in his prior marriages...some of which were his own fault. At the same time, I think she is also comfortable with this arangement as things are good otherwise....and she was divorced twice. Ultimately, she is a woman of faith and the main issue for her is that she is "living in sin".

This thread is NOT about judgment for living with someone prior to marriage and I want to make that ABSOLUTELY clear. I am interested in knowing if any of you felt like her, whether your now-husband had difficulty making the jump (or maybe it was you), and how/why you and your husband made the jump afterall. I think it might help me counsel her if we have another opportunity to talk about it.

[Deleted]

When we moved in together, we knew it was with the expectation that we would eventually get married. So, there was no difficulty or confusion involved.

[2vermont]

No, that makes absolute sense. I guess so far your experiences started out differently than my family member's situation...both your intentions as a couple as well as your ages and prior experiences with marriage at the time you moved in together.

[lys]

What were the expectations of the relationship prior to moving in?
For me - marriage on the horizon was one of them.
IMO it is a discussion that needst to happen prior to moving in.

[thejackpot]

We moved in with the plan that we would get married but we had to do x first. There was the comfy period where I was wondering if he knew x was approaching and I had no ring but he was still aware of our timetable and the ring/marriage happened pretty much as planned.

[Deleted]

I didn't give up my apartment until I had a ring on my finger.

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 7:25:40 GMT -5 lys said:

What were the expectations of the relationship prior to moving in?
For me - marriage on the horizon was one of them.
IMO it is a discussion that needst to happen prior to moving in.

I honestly don't know what either one was thinking, but I suspect that my family member had always thought marriage was a possibility. As for her fiance, not so much. But again, that is just my perception of things.

[gpw]

well, my H and I moved in together, and we were 36 when we got married. We lived together for about a year before we got married..maybe a year and half.

We moved in together with the expectation of marriage. In fact, I said I wouldn't move in without an engagement. It didn't exactly work out that way, but we were engaged about 4 months into the living situation.

For us, it was a really good transition period. We had both lived alone for over 10 years...it was hard to try and combine households and we were living in close quarters.

Anyway, I think it's probably the experiences they've had in their previous marriages. I mean, if they were truly traumatic experiences (I think divorce is probably extremely traumatic, even without children involved), it would really make me thing more than twice about entering into one again. I have a friend who is married to someone now..it's her second marriage and she's really struggling right now with whether or not she wants to stay married to him; for a variety of reasons. They don't have kids, but the thought of another divorce is weighing on her a lot.

[iammalcolmx]

Jun 18, 2012 7:26:35 GMT -5 @septimus said:

I didn't give up my apartment until I had a ring on my finger.

For the mutherfucking WIN. DITTO!

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 7:33:04 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

I think it'd be really hard to advise someone on this if you are happily married. Might be a bitter pill for her to take coming from you? I would avoid the topic.

We've already talked about it...and she opened up to me. Up until now I have kept my mouth shut.

[DorkFish]

Lurker jumping in. For us, we wanted to be married before starting a family. I'm glad that DH & I lived together before hand. We got to learn a lot about eachother that I don't think we would've otherwise.

However, my cousin and her SO have been together as long as DH & I and consider themselves domestic partners. There is no sign of them ever getting married. They've lived together since the beginning and recently bought a house. DH's aunt and her SO have been together probably longer than I've been alive and have yet to get married and won't.

To me, if you're happy with your living arrangement, I don't see a point to rush into marriage just because society/the church/whoever says you should.

[gpw]

Jun 18, 2012 7:33:46 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:26:35 GMT -5 @septimus said:

I didn't give up my apartment until I had a ring on my finger.

For the mutherfucking WIN. DITTO!

That's what was supposed to happen with us, but I was living with a roommate at the time who had just been recently married. They were a long distance couple and that heifer decided that she wanted to live with her H, so I had to go, lol! That was in July....we were engaged in October, so it wasn't that long. I had always told him that if I moved it, it was marriage, though.

[gpw]

Jun 18, 2012 7:35:34 GMT -5 DorkFish said:

Lurker jumping in. For us, we wanted to be married before starting a family. I'm glad that DH & I lived together before hand. We got to learn a lot about eachother that I don't think we would've otherwise.

However, my cousin and her SO have been together as long as DH & I and consider themselves domestic partners. There is no sign of them ever getting married. They've lived together since the beginning and recently bought a house. DH's aunt and her SO have been together probably longer than I've been alive and have yet to get married and won't.

To me, if you're happy with your living arrangement, I don't see a point to rush into marriage just because society/the church/whoever says you should.

and that is super for you...except the OP says this woman is struggling with it religiously. Whether she should or shouldn't isn't for us to decide. She is. I think OP is looking at it from a "how should I counsel her now that she's in this position and feels like she should be married". Telling her "don't let religion decide" isn't going to work in this situation, I don't think.

[winston]

Jun 18, 2012 7:09:14 GMT -5 2vermont said:

She suspects it is because of a lot bad experiences in his prior marriages...some of which were his own fault.

I think *this* is the key here. We lived together before we got married and had no concerns about making things legal, but neither of us had ever been married before - and neither of us had any real baggage, either. This guy's been through it all before and it didn't work out. I don't think living together or not living together is what's making him hesitate to get married.

[gpw]

Jun 18, 2012 7:39:20 GMT -5 winston said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:09:14 GMT -5 2vermont said:

She suspects it is because of a lot bad experiences in his prior marriages...some of which were his own fault.

I think *this* is the key here. We lived together before we got married and had no concerns about making things legal, but neither of us had ever been married before - and neither of us had any real baggage, either. This guy's been through it all before and it didn't work out. I don't think living together or not living together is what's making him hesitate to get married.

This is what I was trying to say in the novel I wrote above. Winston for the win.

Is her SO religious? Maybe a talk with the priest as a sort of "couple's counseling" thing? I don't think it has much to do with your relative.

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 7:39:14 GMT -5 gpw said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:35:34 GMT -5 DorkFish said:

Lurker jumping in. For us, we wanted to be married before starting a family. I'm glad that DH & I lived together before hand. We got to learn a lot about eachother that I don't think we would've otherwise.

However, my cousin and her SO have been together as long as DH & I and consider themselves domestic partners. There is no sign of them ever getting married. They've lived together since the beginning and recently bought a house. DH's aunt and her SO have been together probably longer than I've been alive and have yet to get married and won't.

To me, if you're happy with your living arrangement, I don't see a point to rush into marriage just because society/the church/whoever says you should.

and that is super for you...except the OP says this woman is struggling with it religiously. Whether she should or shouldn't isn't for us to decide. She is. I think OP is looking at it from a "how should I counsel her now that she's in this position and feels like she should be married". Telling her "don't let religion decide" isn't going to work in this situation, I don't think.

Yes. In fact, I tried to post a response to this and it fell into the black hole. She is the one who is upset by the fact that she is "living in sin" (her words, not mine). and I think that if there was some sort of timetable, she would feel better about that...knowing there was an end point.

Our discussion has also turned into her seriously considering returning to the Catholic Church (she is a cradle Catholic who fell away)...and a lot of our discussion revolved around church teaching, etc.

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 7:41:21 GMT -5 gpw said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:39:20 GMT -5 winston said:

I think *this* is the key here. We lived together before we got married and had no concerns about making things legal, but neither of us had ever been married before - and neither of us had any real baggage, either. This guy's been through it all before and it didn't work out. I don't think living together or not living together is what's making him hesitate to get married.

This is what I was trying to say in the novel I wrote above. Winston for the win.

Is her SO religious? Maybe a talk with the priest as a sort of "couple's counseling" thing? I don't think it has much to do with your relative.

He's not, but I did suggest this.

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 7:36:48 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:35:21 GMT -5 2vermont said:

We've already talked about it...and she opened up to me. Up until now I have kept my mouth shut.

I would still avoid it like a landmine. I had a girlfriend who was there, and it just wasn't pretty. Because the only advice you can give is wait it out, or don't wait it out. If you ever say don't wait it out it goes downhill. Truly, 2v, trust me, just say "what do you think?" over and over and over.

I hear you MrD...and I will be careful. Right now it seems like my main purpose is helping her wrt learning more about her Catholic roots.

[winston]

Jun 18, 2012 7:36:48 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Jun 18, 2012 7:35:21 GMT -5 2vermont said:

We've already talked about it...and she opened up to me. Up until now I have kept my mouth shut.

I would still avoid it like a landmine. I had a girlfriend who was there, and it just wasn't pretty. Because the only advice you can give is wait it out, or don't wait it out. If you ever say don't wait it out it goes downhill. Truly, 2v, trust me, just say "what do you think?" over and over and over.

And this is great advice. Sometimes people open up because they just want someone to hear them out and validate their feelings about a situation, but they don't actually want advice. They want someone to acknowledge that they're in a tough spot and let them talk through it. And sometimes they don't know this until they're upset that someone's actually giving them advice.

Sometimes I confide in friends about difficult things in my life, but I'm careful to choose people to talk to based on what I'm looking for in the conversation. It took me awhile to figure this out, though, that some people are better for talking through rough things because of their own experiences. Sometimes I wanted people to understand when there was no way they ever could, and when I really realized that they just couldn't get it, I just wished they'd hug me and listen, rather than giving feedback.

Given your own experience (or lack thereof) in this situation you might be a sounding board with hugs kind of confidante. Sometimes all you need to say is, 'I wish I had the right thing to say here to make this better, but I just don't know. I love you and I wish I could make it better and I'll help you talk through this any way I can.' And that can be the very best response when you really don't know how to help.

That was rambley.

[chichimi]

We moved in together because of finances. I was in my first year of college but my parents had cut me off and living with him meant $200 a month rent. It seemed like a no brainer. I did not have marriage on my mind at all at the time so living together went really well as there wasnt pressure.
We did eventually get married. I dont know if living together really delayed it that much because we wanted to wait until we were out of college and financially stable before paying for a wedding.
If we were doing it as a test, then we both failed because our divorce will be final in about a month. I would run from a guy that has commitment issues because all I want is a stable commitment. If she is waiting until she is married to have children with the man or buy a house, then she is only wasting her own time. If she is worried about living in sin, she really has to weigh if God would view her union as holy if she had her own living space but continued to have sex with him. I know she thinks she may feel better if it does have an end point but almost all sin starts out with the intention of having an end point. Just until dot dot dot. Her going through a divorce with this man because she rushed him into marriage could also make her feel distanced from God. I dont know how and even if you should tell her any of this.

[Deleted]

We moved in together about a year prior to being engaged. We did move in together with the idea that an engagement/marriage was in our future somewhere, but we both just weren't ready for that yet. I'm glad because we have been able to work through a lot of communication issues together and really grow together. I think that helped us realize that we will work well together as a team in marriage.

[ringstrue]

We moved in together after dating for 6 months and marriage wasn't on our radar. We were 21/22 at the time. We basically grew into the idea of marriage with each other and got engaged when we were 26/27.

I feel like I'm missing something. Can you be more specific on what he is having a hard time with? Is the issue the jump from co-habitation to marriage or from being a couple in 2 apartments to a couple in one apartment? Are they sleeping in separate beds??

I don't think its wise for the woman here to push engagement/marriage on him just because they are living together and she feels religiously guilty.

[juris11]

We talked about it before we moved in together. It was understood that we were headed towards marriage very soon. He proposed about 5 months after we moved in together.

I think this is something that needed to be discussed before moving in together. Did they talk about it at all? And do they talk about it now? Does he say he never wants to be married, or that he sees being married to her, but he just isn't ready yet? I think his attitude makes all the difference.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

XH and I did, and obviously that went in the shitter. Although it had nothing to do with living together first.
I have a very good friend who is in this exact spot. She is divorced. Her boyfriend is not. They live together and have for over a year. Both are religious and having problems reconciling this. I know she wants to get married. He says he does but something is holding him back. It's hard to know exactly what the issue is. I think he's afraid that if they really do get married something will change, and it will be something that cannot be easily fixed, you know? I don't know what the right answer is. I know they each have individual counselors, but I think they need joint counseling to get to the bottom of it. If one of them needs to be married and the other is hesitant to pull the trigger, they need to work together to find a compromise or move to another relationship.

[AJL]

DH and I lived together only a short time before we got married. We knew we were going to be married before we moved in together, though we weren't engaged yet.

I think the difference is that neither DH nor I thought we were living in sin. We were not doing anything we believed to be morally wrong by living together before marriage. So I guess it was a non-issue.

ETA: Like one of the pp said, we were clear in our expectations and both of us were on board that we would be getting married. This wasn't a test run for us, per se.

[2vermont]

Jun 18, 2012 8:14:39 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

I feel like I'm missing something. Can you be more specific on what he is having a hard time with? Is the issue the jump from co-habitation to marriage or from being a couple in 2 apartments to a couple in one apartment? Are they sleeping in separate beds??

I actaully can not because even she has difficulty putting it into words. As for your other Q's, they are co-habitating for, I think, 4 years now (and sleeping in same bed)...so it is the former.

I am also afraid to give too many details that I do know.

[dev22]

Ditto many PPs. When we moved in together we were already talking about getting married - it just was never an issue for us. I have heard of a few people that have the problem of not moving past the loving together stage, but honestly, IMO, if the guy is dragging his feet and has seemingly no desire to get married, it might be a sign of a bigger issue within the relationship.

[kellbell191]

We were in the same boat as Melmaria. We were planning on getting married eventually, but wanted to finish grad school, save up for a wedding, etc. For us, the wedding was a formality as to how we felt about each other and how we were living our life.

[secretlyevil]

My mother always told me breaking a lease is easier than getting divorced. It definitely was a trial run for us but even when you get married after living together things still change. I look at living together as step towards marriage, not a substitution.

[kellbell191]

And I don't think Dorkfish is totally out of left field. I would have been fine not getting married and sharing our lives the way we were. BUT your family member clearly wants to be married. She messed up by not discussing that prior to moving in.

From what I've seen, living together can be disastrous to a relationship if it's done out of convenience or a need to move onto the next step, if either party wants a deeper commitment and the couple hasn't discussed or worked it out ahead of time. It sounds like the OP is thinking of living together as a trial marriage type thing....for us it was another step in our level of commitment and desire to share our lives, but part of the long road we had both agreed we wanted for our relationship. Living together with no desire to marry is fine if that's what everyone wants, but if one person wants more you need to bring that up ahead of time.

I would encourage her to talk it out with him and figure out where he sees the relationship going; if their goals don't match up and she has religious guilt, then she should move out while they re-evaluate the relationship.