I'm having difficulty with this choices=sacrifices

[eightangryreindeer]

People make choices. HAB made the choice not to go to restaurant school when she knew she was pg, she didn't sacrifice restaurant school for her kid. (see flameful that won't die)

If your mom supports you as an adult that is great (slipping you a $20, sitting for your kids, whatever) but I really have a hard time referring to these things as sacrifices, it's so martyrish.

If someone, like a parent, is drilling it into your head about how much they sacrificed to give you a good life, I just think that's so wrong.

[manzer1979]

I agree with you. Of course you make sacrifices for your kids, that should be a given. I brought them into this world and should show them a good life and provide for them-within reason of course.

[partiallysunny]

Jun 20, 2012 9:36:23 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

If someone, like a parent, is drilling it into your head about how much they sacrificed to give you a good life, I just think that's so wrong.

Agreed

[eightangryreindeer]

Jun 20, 2012 9:42:20 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I agree with you. Of course you make sacrifices for your kids, that should be a given. I brought them into this world and should show them a good life and provide for them-within reason of course.

I don't think you do agree with me, lol. None of that is a sacrifice.

[dcannie]

Jun 20, 2012 9:42:20 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I agree with you. Of course you make sacrifices for your kids, that should be a given. I brought them into this world and should show them a good life and provide for them-within reason of course.

hmmm, are you misunderstanding ltp or am i?
eta: okay, i see it's you.

[juris11]

I agree with this. Choices do not equal sacrifices. When I made the choice to marry H, should I look at it as sacrificing my opportunities to date other people? When I buy a house, am I sacrificing my chances to buy a different one? Sure you can look at your choices that way, but that is exhausting and where do you stop?

[speckledfrog]

Jun 20, 2012 9:45:05 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

Jun 20, 2012 9:42:20 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I agree with you. Of course you make sacrifices for your kids, that should be a given. I brought them into this world and should show them a good life and provide for them-within reason of course.

I don't think you do agree with me, lol. None of that is a sacrifice.

Lol.

I agree with you, ltp. It's just life.

[partiallysunny]

Jun 20, 2012 9:47:39 GMT -5 toledo said:

I sacrifice sleep on a nightly basis. It is not my choice.

Neener.

Can I change my vote?!

[lazyphoque]

I'm with you - choices that benefit my kid and my family and add to our collective happiness are not sacrifices. Some of the choices my parents go above and beyond what I feel like parents are obligated to do, and I am very grateful to them. They would tell me (and have told me) that my gratitude is not necessary, since they are doing what makes them happy.

[bcv513]

I agree with you.

[hisno1girl]

Jun 20, 2012 9:36:23 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

People make choices. HAB made the choice not to go to restaurant school when she knew she was pg, she didn't sacrifice restaurant school for her kid. (see flameful that won't die)

If your mom supports you as an adult that is great (slipping you a $20, sitting for your kids, whatever) but I really have a hard time referring to these things as sacrifices, it's so martyrish.

If someone, like a parent, is drilling it into your head about how much they sacrificed to give you a good life, I just think that's so wrong.

Agree with you 100%, especially the last paragraph.

[manzer1979]

Jun 20, 2012 9:45:05 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

Jun 20, 2012 9:42:20 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I agree with you. Of course you make sacrifices for your kids, that should be a given. I brought them into this world and should show them a good life and provide for them-within reason of course.

I don't think you do agree with me, lol. None of that is a sacrifice.

I guess what I was trying to say and what I thought you meant is you may give up things for the choices you make whether it is have a child or whatever but to ever make that person feel like or actually tell them that you gave up X,Y, or Z for them is martyrish and total bullshit.

[mishap]

They're not sacrifies; they're responsibilities.

[Deleted]

Thank you!

I did not sacrifice for my children. I made choices. I made the choice to be a mother because I wanted to be one. And I've made choices that best support that decision. The idea of calling it a sacrifice seems rather dramawhorish.

[Mrs.Beagle]

Agreed.

[bleubook]

as usual I agree

[RobotLegs]

To be clear, that was purely my wording. My mom has never, ever said to me "I sacrificed so much for you." She's never even implied it.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2012 9:58:15 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I guess what I was trying to say and what I thought you meant is you may give up things for the choices you make whether it is have a child or whatever but to ever make that person feel like or actually tell them that you gave up X,Y, or Z for them is martyrish and total bullshit.

Some parents don't even have to say it. There are plenty of parents who bathe in Eau du Sacrificial Lamb without laying it on thick. I'd go so far as to say that if view your parents as having made grand sacrifices on your behalf, they've let you know that in some way even if they've never outright said it.

[Deleted]

Agreed. My mom has used her kids and her "sacrifices" as a manipulation and guilt tool for years, when in reality she didn't want to do these other things, so we were her excuse.

[eightangryreindeer]

Jun 20, 2012 9:58:15 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

Jun 20, 2012 9:45:05 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

I don't think you do agree with me, lol. None of that is a sacrifice.

I guess what I was trying to say and what I thought you meant is you may give up things for the choices you make whether it is have a child or whatever but to ever make that person feel like or actually tell them that you gave up X,Y, or Z for them is martyrish and total bullshit.

Voicing it is no worse than believing it.

Human beings require more infant dependence than any other species on the planet. They're not really fully mobile until like age 2, and they can't feed themselves until much later. On some level, providing basic needs for your offspring is really about survival of the species and is instinctual. Yes, there are forces which make this instinct not 100%, but we're not prone to cutting the cord and leaving the kid in the dirt to manage or not. Our society has built institutions to step in when this is in fact might happen with the biological parent whose instinct is disfunctional.

Providing basic to good care to one's offspring is not sacrificial in any way, shape or form.

[sprky79]

Jun 20, 2012 10:05:05 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Jun 20, 2012 9:58:15 GMT -5 manzer1979 said:

I guess what I was trying to say and what I thought you meant is you may give up things for the choices you make whether it is have a child or whatever but to ever make that person feel like or actually tell them that you gave up X,Y, or Z for them is martyrish and total bullshit.

Some parents don't even have to say it. There are plenty of parents who bathe in Eau du Sacrificial Lamb without laying it on thick. I'd go so far as to say that if view your parents as having made grand sacrifices on your behalf, they've let you know that in some way even if they've never outright said it.

This might be the best thing you have ever posted. I literally just lauged out loud :-)

[wrathofkuus]

My mom and MIL have been wearing that perfume for thirtysome years. It's why I loathe Mothers' Day so much.

[wrathofkuus]

YES. Everything she did, she did for me, somehow. Even sticking me with her girlfriend's godawful kids and making them my "best friends" and pressuring me to keep up the pretense that the reason for the longterm sleepovers was so I could hang with my bestest bestest friends ever.

She's a bit of a nutter.

[scotty]

I get what you're saying. They got into a situation where they had you. It's kinda their job, and the niceties are nice. And, I didn't read that part of the flameful. That effer is long.

[lust2hart]

How do you define sacrifice, then? (Not snarky!)

[eightangryreindeer]

Jun 20, 2012 11:26:59 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

How do you define sacrifice, then? (Not snarky!)

I'm thinking about this...

I feel like the word has been so dumbed down since whatshisface offered to kill his son 'cos God said so, lol.

I'm thinking about if you only have enough food to feed you or your child and you choose to feed your child instead of yourself... is that a sacrifice?

*off to go examine the definition of sacrifice*

[snipsnsnails]

Is it because of what the word connotes? Choices do involve a measure of sacrifice. Granted, that measure might be very small, or that measure might be large (which is what I think the word generally brings to mind), but I think there is still something sacrificed or not chosen.

[lust2hart]

Jun 20, 2012 11:32:30 GMT -5 eightangryreindeer said:

Jun 20, 2012 11:26:59 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

How do you define sacrifice, then? (Not snarky!)

I'm thinking about this...

I feel like the word has been so dumbed down since whatshisface offered to kill his son 'cos God said so, lol.

I'm thinking about if you only have enough food to feed you or your child and you choose to feed your child instead of yourself... is that a sacrifice?

*off to go examine the definition of sacrifice*

Hmm. See, I would think that falls under "doing what needs to be done as a parent."

Whereas you think it has been dumbed down, I wonder if the word "sacrifice" has become this emotional baggage term in our society, when really, isn't sacrificing just choosing one thing over the other?

Like in hab's case - she chose to become a mother rather than pursue restaurant schooling. She still "sacrificed" her dream/goal/whatever of going to restaurant school. But using the word "sacrifice" doesn't have to mean that it was this big, agonizing, omgwhatamIgoingtodo? decision, does it? Maybe it should? I dunno.

[papie]

:::shrug:::

I think certain people use the word sacrifice in different contexts. I do think there are some sacrifices involved. Sleep. My flabby belly and breasts are another example. But it was obviously my choice to have children, and it comes with the territory. I don't know, I can't get worked up over this either way.

Of course, I don't buy into my mom's and grandma's "We did everything for you, so now you owe us" bullshit, but I don't think using the word sacrifice necessarely implies that.

[Deleted]

OMG. My mom shoves that into my face all of the time. She had me at 17, and she always talks about how much she sacrificed for me and blah blah blah. When I was in high school and she pulled that shit out again, I finally said, well mom, maybe you should have had an abortion so you wouldn't have had to do all of that since it was such a huge deal. It shut her up pretty quick.

She still loves to throw that around.

Honestly, I go above and beyond for my son because I want to.

I make sure he has food, clothes, medical care and shelter because that is my duty as his parent.

His college savings, pottery barn room, baskets of toys, Disney trips and me giving up time with friends so I can stay home with him- doing those things for him brings ME pleasure. I understand that he benefits from them, but I am not doing those things for HIM, I am doing them for ME, because it brings me pleasure to do that.

I could not imagine throwing that in his face when he is older like my mother does to me.