What's low income for a single person?

[cjeanette]

Sept 19, 2013 18:27:54 GMT -5 @ruralrabbit1 said:

I was told mine is too low at $38,000 gross. I'm still kind of bitter about it. No wonder people don't post their budgets.

That is what H makes.  I think it's too low..lol.  Honestly though the benefits more than make up for the salary.  

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2013 21:13:31 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

What is your point here?

The point is that mm can be a little out of touch re "income is too low for expenses, go get another job". Like its easy or something. And a small handful of other posters have agreed with me re mm can be out of touch.

If it was that easy to not have debt, not have car payment and save for retirement we would have poverty, WIC, and government assistance. Or that easy to find a second income.

Point is... This place, while gives great money advice, is often out of touch with the no skittles eating population.



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[meggers5]

Sept 20, 2013 14:40:44 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 19, 2013 21:13:31 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

What is your point here?

The point is that mm can be a little out of touch re "income is too low for expenses, go get another job". Like its easy or something. And a small handful of other posters have agreed with me.

If it was that easy to not have debt, not have car payment and save for retirement we would have poverty, WIC, and government assistance. Or that easy to find a second income.

Point is... This place, while gives great money advice, is often out of touch with the no skittles eating population.



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So why don't you think admin, retail etc are careers?

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 11:30:54 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I lived for several years in LA on about $30k, once in a studio alone (no car payment) and the rest of the time with roommates. This was in the Hollywood/West Hollywood/Mid-Wilshire area. You can do it. Housing costs suck, but you can do it. I did most of my shopping at Trader Joes, which I think is cheap and healthy. Also, I find public transit to be really easy in the Hollywood area and know many people who don't have cars.

Thanks. I'm not worried about me surviving LA. I already know I can. But I'm glad to hear others have done it too.

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[msmerymac]

Sept 20, 2013 12:38:07 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Sept 19, 2013 18:27:54 GMT -5 @ruralrabbit1 said:

I was told mine is too low at $38,000 gross. I'm still kind of bitter about it. No wonder people don't post their budgets.

That is what H makes.  I think it's too low..lol.  Honestly though the benefits more than make up for the salary.  

That's about my salary, too. Thankfully our HHI skews high due to my husband's salary. But trust me, both of us wish I made more!

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2013 14:44:01 GMT -5 meggers5 said:

Sept 20, 2013 14:40:44 GMT -5 blissanity said:

The point is that mm can be a little out of touch re "income is too low for expenses, go get another job". Like its easy or something. And a small handful of other posters have agreed with me.

If it was that easy to not have debt, not have car payment and save for retirement we would have poverty, WIC, and government assistance. Or that easy to find a second income.

Point is... This place, while gives great money advice, is often out of touch with the no skittles eating population.



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So why don't you think admin, retail etc are careers?

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do. 

Now, I'm grateful for my admin years because it gave me more experience in my intended field.

I know a handful of people who graduated a year before me or with me that are now admin assistants because it's the only place they can start. Whereas because I've done it before I can start in a position "above" them. 

Off my uppity train now. Flame away. 

[phunluvin82]

Sept 20, 2013 14:40:44 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 19, 2013 21:13:31 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

What is your point here?

The point is that mm can be a little out of touch re "income is too low for expenses, go get another job". Like its easy or something. And a small handful of other posters have agreed with me re mm can be out of touch.

If it was that easy to not have debt, not have car payment and save for retirement we would have poverty, WIC, and government assistance. Or that easy to find a second income.

Point is... This place, while gives great money advice, is often out of touch with the no skittles eating population.



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I don't think MMers typically argue that it's so easy...but rather tend to just toss out suggestions to see if something is feasible.  There's a difference between, "Is there any way you can bring in more income and/or get a 2nd job?" vs "Well, the solution to your problem is so easy...just start making more money. Duh."  You seem to be implying that MM takes the latter attitude, but I haven't really seen that.

As for the issue of poverty and/or government assistance...there have occasionally been budgets where someone is in a really really rough spot through little or no fault of their own, and MM does sometimes suggest that posters look into whether they qualify for assistance of any sort when it is appropriate.  I really haven't seen evidence of MMers looking down on the idea of utilizing government assistance for people who really need it...I've actually seen just the opposite, with people often pointing out to reluctant posters that they should use it if they need it b/c, "that's what it's there for" etc.

All of that said, there are instances where someone is in a really really rough spot due to a long series of bad choices and in those cases MM is quick to dole out some tough love when it's warranted.

As for being out of touch in a general sense...yes, the occasional 'Zomg, $200k a year is NOT rich...I'm BARELY getting by!!!!' type of thread can attest to the fact that many MMers are probably disproportionately high earners.  But I don't think that's exactly breaking news.  It's been a running joke on ML for ages.

[itsme]

[stever]

I haven't read all of the responses but I  wanted to say that I don't think it's a value judgment. My first job out of college earned me $1600 net a month. I lived in a VHCOL area and would have never been able to be comfortable there if my BF, now DH, didn't make a whoooollle lot more than me.

If someone said, 'wow, you don't make much,' - and they did - I would have said, 'yup!' There's no need to get butt hurt over someone stating the obvious.

[Deleted]

For the last time... I am not butthurt. I'm comfortable and confident with my income.
I know very well that I make what MM would consider low. And I'm okay with that.

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[takeonyou]

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 20, 2013 14:44:01 GMT -5 meggers5 said:

So why don't you think admin, retail etc are careers?

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree.

And you say mm is out of touch, lol.

My husband has a degree and doesn't use it. He owns a buisness and makes very good money as a blue collar business owner. I am a daycare provider. No degree needed and I would certainly say that it is my career. Otherwise I've been babysitting for over a decade. But I'm pretty sure babysitters dont make the money I do or reap the tax benefits either.

But you can ask my house cleaner about her career. Also ask her where she stores her masters from Princeton.


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[audette]

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do.

Read more: pandce.proboards.com/post/4149802/edit#ixzz2fXDMWDPJ

Yep, that is pretty damn uppity.  In one fell swoop, you manage to discount all trades, many small business owners, many blue-collar jobs, a hefty portion of the military, and others.


There are many careers available to people without four year degrees.  Heck, there are many people with four year degrees working in fields that couldn't care less about their degree.


ETA: and, I suck at quoting previous posts, apparently...

[kadams767]

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 20, 2013 14:44:01 GMT -5 meggers5 said:

So why don't you think admin, retail etc are careers?

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do. 

Now, I'm grateful for my admin years because it gave me more experience in my intended field.

I know a handful of people who graduated a year before me or with me that are now admin assistants because it's the only place they can start. Whereas because I've done it before I can start in a position "above" them. 

Off my uppity train now. Flame away. 

And to what, may I ask, was your admin job a stepping stone? To your current life of not being able to afford your car payment, of PT serving and bartending, and jobs that offer no benefits? You really sound like you're doing better than all of the admins I know. Oh wait...

Honestly, as I said before, given that you were the offended target of the "just a waitress" thread, you'd think you could exercise a little more discretion in your comments at the risk of offending an awful lot of people.

[jillboston]

Sept 21, 2013 10:17:33 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do. 

Now, I'm grateful for my admin years because it gave me more experience in my intended field.

I know a handful of people who graduated a year before me or with me that are now admin assistants because it's the only place they can start. Whereas because I've done it before I can start in a position "above" them. 

Off my uppity train now. Flame away. 

And to what, may I ask, was your admin job a stepping stone? To your current life of not being able to afford your car payment, of PT serving and bartending, and jobs that offer no benefits? You really sound like you're doing better than all of the admins I know. Oh wait...

Honestly, as I said before, given that you were the offended target of the "just a waitress" thread, you'd think you could exercise a little more discretion in your comments at the risk of offending an awful lot of people.

Her professional gig running the four minute mile I would guess. Legal admins can make well over 70K around here. The best I know don't have degrees either. Just brains and integrity - not bliss' wheelhouse

[callie]

I'm LOLing at bliss knowing she can survive LA after being ready to give up on San Diego in like a months time.

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2013 11:21:09 GMT -5 callie said:

I'm LOLing at bliss knowing she can survive LA after being ready to give up on San Diego in like a months time.

UM.... Okay. San Diego wasn't what I expected. I'm not really sure what I expected, I guess, but I wasn't happy. Not because of money either. I can't explain, it was like wanting something for so long and then discovering you don't like it. Idk, it's weird.

LA though has an opportunity that each day I'm excited to be apart of. And who knows, I might not like LA either. But I never expected to end up there. It wasn't on my radar so maybe I should just roll with it. Either way, my job is killer and I couldn't be more excited to start.

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[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2013 10:17:33 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do. 

Now, I'm grateful for my admin years because it gave me more experience in my intended field.

I know a handful of people who graduated a year before me or with me that are now admin assistants because it's the only place they can start. Whereas because I've done it before I can start in a position "above" them. 

Off my uppity train now. Flame away. 

And to what, may I ask, was your admin job a stepping stone? To your current life of not being able to afford your car payment, of PT serving and bartending, and jobs that offer no benefits? You really sound like you're doing better than all of the admins I know. Oh wait...

Honestly, as I said before, given that you were the offended target of the "just a waitress" thread, you'd think you could exercise a little more discretion in your comments at the risk of offending an awful lot of people.

I can afford my car payment. I'm just sick of paying it. Lol. There's a difference. The 6 months I didn't have a car payment was bliss and I want it back.

I serve on the side because I like the extra easy cash, the friendships and the perks. Until moving to San Diego it was never a full time job / only source of income. (I made money freelancing but not enough to cover all expenses).

And yes, it was a stepping stone. I could still be in the marketing position in Utah, with benefits, great hourly, blah blah. But it's not what I want. I needed to get out of Utah.

As for my job now, I was looking for a position with benefits. But this position was offered and there was no way I could turn it down. It's such a killer opportunity that I'm grateful for each day. I'm confident my position after this will have benefits, salary, blah blah.

And I'll probably still bartend a night or 2 a week. Not because I HAVE to but because I WANT too. Like I said, quick easy cash and great networking.

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[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2013 9:43:56 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Sept 20, 2013 15:54:34 GMT -5 blissanity said:

This is my uppity moment....

I think that a career requires advanced training, like a 4 year degree. Now, I think that people CAN and DO make them careers. But for me personally I didn't consider working as an admin a career. It wasn't something I wanted to do long term and used it as a stepping stone. It was a promotion from customer service rep and I took it, knowing that I could make more money and could continue doing that FT while finishing school and figuring out what I really wanted to do. 

Now, I'm grateful for my admin years because it gave me more experience in my intended field.

I know a handful of people who graduated a year before me or with me that are now admin assistants because it's the only place they can start. Whereas because I've done it before I can start in a position "above" them. 

Off my uppity train now. Flame away. 

I don't think this is uppity, it just doesn't make sense and simply isn't true, and as a result, really only illustrates either a lack of maturity, exposure or comprehension.  A chef, a plumber, a mechanic, a fitness instructor, an artist, an interior designer, a realtor.  These are all careers, whether you think so or not, and I know people doing all of them with 6 figure incomes who either do not have a BA/BS or have one but are not using it for their profession (e.g., the chef I know had an advertising career first, so she has a degree but it's not relevant to her profession, in which, btw, she earns much more than she did in her previous career).  I also know an admin who makes $80K a year.

Telling someone he/she need to make more money, or--as Suze Orman usually tells people--that they have an "income problem" isn't a judgment call.  If someone nets $30K a year and has expenses of $12K, as far as I'm concerned, she's doing just fine.  That's never the case in the budget posts I've seen where people tell the poster she needs earn more.  There are only so many problems that exist with budgets, either someone isn't earning what's needed to live and prosper or the earnings are decent but they are being allocated improperly. 

Also, I don't think any of the intended targets here are riled up.  Quite frankly and unfortunately, the only people expressing any emotion about this matter are people offended by the "you need to make more money" sentiment and the people you subsequently offended by saying they were just admins.

I was speaking about my PERSONAL opinion. And strictly in regards to admin, retail managers as those were positions I've held.

Business owners, people who don't use their degree, artists, etc I wasn't including. I consider those careers.

It likely stems from my childhood. I didn't mean to offend, but I personally wouldn't be happy being in an admin support role forever. Although I know certain fields pay greatly. It wasn't part of my master plan. I definitely could have stayed as one but I want more and have worked to get it.

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[meggers5]

Sept 21, 2013 15:52:01 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 21, 2013 9:43:56 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

I don't think this is uppity, it just doesn't make sense and simply isn't true, and as a result, really only illustrates either a lack of maturity, exposure or comprehension.  A chef, a plumber, a mechanic, a fitness instructor, an artist, an interior designer, a realtor.  These are all careers, whether you think so or not, and I know people doing all of them with 6 figure incomes who either do not have a BA/BS or have one but are not using it for their profession (e.g., the chef I know had an advertising career first, so she has a degree but it's not relevant to her profession, in which, btw, she earns much more than she did in her previous career).  I also know an admin who makes $80K a year.

Telling someone he/she need to make more money, or--as Suze Orman usually tells people--that they have an "income problem" isn't a judgment call.  If someone nets $30K a year and has expenses of $12K, as far as I'm concerned, she's doing just fine.  That's never the case in the budget posts I've seen where people tell the poster she needs earn more.  There are only so many problems that exist with budgets, either someone isn't earning what's needed to live and prosper or the earnings are decent but they are being allocated improperly. 

Also, I don't think any of the intended targets here are riled up.  Quite frankly and unfortunately, the only people expressing any emotion about this matter are people offended by the "you need to make more money" sentiment and the people you subsequently offended by saying they were just admins.

I was speaking about my PERSONAL opinion. And strictly in regards to admin, retail managers as those were positions I've held.

Business owners, people who don't use their degree, artists, etc I wasn't including. I consider those careers.

It likely stems from my childhood. I didn't mean to offend, but I personally wouldn't be happy being in an admin support role forever. Although I know certain fields pay greatly. It wasn't part of my master plan. I definitely could have stayed as one but I want more and have worked to get it.

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It doesn't matter that you've held those jobs, it's your PERSONAL opinion that makes you sound like an asshole about this. I work in retail, an for my manager it is most certainly a career. To say that you don't consider those careers is really offensive. 

And this post is very different from your last 2 posts on the subject.

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2013 16:48:20 GMT -5 meggers5 said:

Sept 21, 2013 15:52:01 GMT -5 blissanity said:

I was speaking about my PERSONAL opinion. And strictly in regards to admin, retail managers as those were positions I've held.

Business owners, people who don't use their degree, artists, etc I wasn't including. I consider those careers.

It likely stems from my childhood. I didn't mean to offend, but I personally wouldn't be happy being in an admin support role forever. Although I know certain fields pay greatly. It wasn't part of my master plan. I definitely could have stayed as one but I want more and have worked to get it.

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It doesn't matter that you've held those jobs, it's your PERSONAL opinion that makes you sound like an asshole about this. I work in retail, an for my manager it is most certainly a career. To say that you don't consider those careers is really offensive. 

And this post is very different from your last 2 posts on the subject.

I don't mind sounding like an asshole. 

And really, you shouldn't take my opinion so personally. I'm an internet stranger. Don't let my opinions offend you. I certainly, don't let others opinions of me offend, hurt, or discourage me. 

[meggers5]

Sept 21, 2013 16:59:27 GMT -5 blissanity said:

Sept 21, 2013 16:48:20 GMT -5 meggers5 said:

It doesn't matter that you've held those jobs, it's your PERSONAL opinion that makes you sound like an asshole about this. I work in retail, an for my manager it is most certainly a career. To say that you don't consider those careers is really offensive. 

And this post is very different from your last 2 posts on the subject.

I don't mind sounding like an asshole. 

And really, you shouldn't take my opinion so personally. I'm an internet stranger. Don't let my opinions offend you. I certainly, don't let others opinions of me offend, hurt, or discourage me. 

[bronxgirl]

Sept 21, 2013 19:03:50 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I'm lol at this mainly because I'm a legal secretary and I make more than some attorneys I know.

Think how much you would make if you had a bliss- approved career.

[josieposy]

Sept 21, 2013 19:03:50 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I'm lol at this mainly because I'm a legal secretary and I make more than some attorneys I know.

No doubt. When I was a secretary I had a chance to "move up" to a paralegal spot with my own office. I just had to take a 12k pay cut and be bound to billable hr requirements. Can't believe I passed that up.

[Deleted]

Lol. You guys give me too much credit. Get over it.

My opinion doesn't matter don't take it so personally. And like I said prior, I know certain fields pay greatly. And many people make it a career and good for them.



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[itsme]

San Diego is way better than LA. Way more chill and less damn traffic.

[Deleted]

So Richard Branson never had a career?

What a waste.