I think it's weird that we're assuming a court operated daycare is substandard. My guess is it would be better than most daycares? And much better than gym daycares that are staffed by college students/teenagers. I mean, if I was a child abuser, the last place I'd try to get a job would be the court daycare.
ANYWAY, I think BFing presents some extra costs/concerns above and beyond just being a primary caregiver, especially based on the age of the child. That said, I think a lot of judges in areas where being a primary caregiver doesn't automatically exempt you get upset that people can't even come to the courthouse for the day of jury selection/voir dire without pitching a fit or bringing their kids. You don't even know if you'll be chosen at that point and may only be there for a few hours. Also, they have to meet a certain # (at least in my experience) for the pool of jurors for it to meet the law and when people don't show up or ask for a waiver instead of showing up, it screws with that. [related protip: say you have a law degree during selection if you don't want to serve]
WTF. I thought if you were the sole childcare provider for a kid under something like 5 you could get a waiver from Jury Duty.
Also what does Jury duty pay? $30 a day if you have more than a 3 day trial? That's not going to cover the cost of this poor woman hiring someone to watch her baby
I'm in STL and got out of jury duty when I was SAH with a breast feeding newborn. I was sweating it though, as the person on the phone couldn't guarantee me I'd be fine. She said to put it on the form and return it and I never heard anything back one way or the other.
I had no childcare resources at the time and a colicky baby who refused bottle feeding. I would've done exactly as this lady did. My mouthy ass would've gotten in so much trouble as I handed my screaming kid to the judge with a bottle of milk and said "you can only charge me if you can get him to drink that."
But I could understand why some people might be uncomfortable with it, especially if it's for 9 hours a day, for a whole week, and especially if you're talking about an infant. I'm not even talking about horrific abuse - just something as simple as leaving a baby in a dirty diaper for nine hours or not feeding the baby all day.
I don't disagree at all that some people will be uncomfortable. I was called for JD while nursing an infant so I completely understand the anxiety surrounding this. I just can't abide by the assumption that courthouse care is automatically substandard or that vetting a daycare guarantees good care.
Post by redheadbaker on Oct 21, 2013 8:03:46 GMT -5
Sigh. I wasn't assuming it was worse. I had issues with DS' first daycare (not feeding my child, leaving toddlers unattended) and it appeared to be great. I don't like the idea of leaving DS with people I've never met. And I have done it before, for a day (prior to me returning to work, so DS wasn't in DC yet). Didn't go well.
This story is local to me and I know of at least 2 other moms that had run ins with judges in that county. Not to the point that they were held in contempt, but they were chewed out by the judge. Both times their child was <1 year old and was exclusively breastfed and not accustomed to taking a bottle. One was still on maternity leave I believe, the other a SAHM without family or resources for childcare, and again, an EBF baby that wouldn't take a bottle, like the mom's situation in that article. They were given a 6 month delay and told in 6 months they were expected to come to the courthouse without their baby in tow so that they could perform their civic duty. One of the moms planned to breastfeed beyond a year, but her daughter weaned before she was called up again.
it's ridiculous. And no, there is no courthouse daycare here, most jurisdictions would not be able to afford that kind of service. Staffing it would be a nightmare too as ratios vary depending on age of the kids in their care.
I guess I'm weird but I would not be comfortable leaving my 2 year old, verbal child in a court daycare for 8 hours a day for however many days. She isn't in daycare now and would freak out about it, like cry to the point she would make herself sick. I also have a 5 year old and would have to pay a significant amount to get him in an after school program.
incognito you bring up a great point. It's other kids you have to worry about, too. I'm assuming it would be impractical for a courthouse to require vaccine proof, etc, and there might be lots of behavior issues from kiddos under lots of stress.
It's moot for me because I'm aware of no such option in STL. There wasn't when I was called for duty.
As to babies vs. actual newborns, my kid was a giant pain in the ass all through infancy (let's be honest, he still is). He was certainly a candidate for being shaken to bits, because God knows I had to set him down screaming and go take deep breaths outside on many occasions.
Point being that a baby, especially a fussy one that won't drink bottles, is still vulnerable past the head wobbly stage, and I get not wanting to leave them with a stranger for an unforeseeable number of long days of jury duty.
Would you leave youe baby with a sitter at a wedding reception, you had never met before? This is the same thing imo
I wouldn't, mostly because they wouldn't have let me when they were little, lol. If the sitter was super friendly and had new games/toys for them to play with, I could probably get my 5 yo to go with her. But under 3, there was no chance in hell that he could peacefully be left with a stranger.
Jury duty is a really important civic responsibility. And I think its important for this demographic to be represented. For that reason alone I don't think an exemption is appropriate. A waiver or delay, however, is fine. Come back in 6 months to a year and serve your time.
I agree that she should have gone with other options - bring someone, pump in the private rooms available, get a babysitter. I think she was just trying to get out of jury duty and thought this may be a way.
i have 3 kids and never breasfed a day in my life and even i think this is dumb as shit.
WTF. I thought if you were the sole childcare provider for a kid under something like 5 you could get a waiver from Jury Duty.
Also what does Jury duty pay? $30 a day if you have more than a 3 day trial? That's not going to cover the cost of this poor woman hiring someone to watch her baby
Agreed - what nonsense. I would have done the same thing she did. Here WE are, ready to serve!
I'm not even a parent and I would not even bring a child inside some of the courthouses I've been in -much less leave them with someone. They are scary, dirty places. Yuck.
incognito you bring up a great point. It's other kids you have to worry about, too. I'm assuming it would be impractical for a courthouse to require vaccine proof, etc, and there might be lots of behavior issues from kiddos under lots of stress.
It's moot for me because I'm aware of no such option in STL. There wasn't when I was called for duty.
As to babies vs. actual newborns, my kid was a giant pain in the ass all through infancy (let's be honest, he still is). He was certainly a candidate for being shaken to bits, because God knows I had to set him down screaming and go take deep breaths outside on many occasions.
Point being that a baby, especially a fussy one that won't drink bottles, is still vulnerable past the head wobbly stage, and I get not wanting to leave them with a stranger for an unforeseeable number of long days of jury duty.
Except kids in your child's school or DC can exempt out so, how is this different? Dumb parents not vaccinating happen everywhere (I understand some can't get the vaccine so calm before jumping on my statement) so why is this different? Why are mothers soooo preshus they can't do this? I usually think it is an annoyance to be called, but I am trying to change that for sure.
incognito you bring up a great point. It's other kids you have to worry about, too. I'm assuming it would be impractical for a courthouse to require vaccine proof, etc, and there might be lots of behavior issues from kiddos under lots of stress.
Again, we are back to assuming that courthouse care is substandard. "Good" day cares deal with stressed out, unruly kids, sick kids, and rotating attendance as well, and requesting a vax record is administratively pretty easy.
I'd love for someone who has actually put her child in courthouse day care to chime in about the experience.
I don't get why some people seem to be arguing that primary caregivers should be exempt because it would cost them more money to hire a sitter. The only time I served on a jury I had to take a leave without pay for a week from my job, and believe me the fee I got from the jury duty was *far* less than I would have earned. So, it absolutely cost me money - a lot of money - to serve on that jury. If we're going to talk about costs, we should be talking about the costs to everyone.
All of that said, I do think it's ridiculous to require an EBF mom of a 5-month old to serve on a jury. Let her come back when the child is no longer breastfeeding.
I didn't say they definitely would. But like a PP said above, if I don't have other care options, I'm not given the choice to vet a court daycare to make sure I'm comfortable with it. I don't see why "it's temporary" somehow makes it all ok.
I'm mobile and miss my physical keyboard!
I will be honest and say that the whole idea of being able to thoroughly vet day care providers and choose one that makes you completely comfortable is a privileged position in which to find oneself. I can't get on board with tillie's ridiculousness upthread, but the gnashing of teeth over putting a non-nursing child in courthouse day care for a day or two is something we are simply not going to agree upon.
but, you know, leaving your kid at the daycare at your gym is totes ok.
I guess I'm weird but I would not be comfortable leaving my 2 year old, verbal child in a court daycare for 8 hours a day for however many days. She isn't in daycare now and would freak out about it, like cry to the point she would make herself sick. I also have a 5 year old and would have to pay a significant amount to get him in an after school program.
So do a LOT of parents. Many have children not in DC who would be upset. Or have children in school where this could be an issue. Or losing out on a day of work is too expensive to be in JD for a paltry $15 or $20 a day. This sounds too much like privilege (not just your post). We NEED people to serve on JD.
Post by canthelpmyself on Oct 21, 2013 9:35:51 GMT -5
Mothers of young children should not get an automatic exemption. You should have to show your ass up for at least the first day and articulate to a judge why it's a particular hardship for you. At that time, the judge will know approximately how long the trial is expected to last and how many potential jurors have shown up and make the decision then. Hell, there's a good chance you won't even get picked. So all this strum and drang over the prospect of sitting in on a three month trial while your baby starves to death three floors down is obnoxious.
You don't get to cry foul over cases not making it through the grand jury, sex offenders getting too little time, drug crimes getting too much time solely because the defendant is black while going out of your way to avoid jury duty.
I can't imagine what would happen if someone said, "I can't vote, you guys. My life, you don't understand, my life is sooooo hard. Someone might feed my kid a cheezeit while I'm gone."
I base my opinion only on my experience with state-financed language class that also included daycare. You heard kids screaming the whole time and the parents in the class couldn't focus and were constantly in and out. And every 1/2 or so one or the other of the breastfeeding moms was beckoned.
Not that it couldn't work, but I agree in giving them a temp pass and have them come back and serve.
I will be honest and say that the whole idea of being able to thoroughly vet day care providers and choose one that makes you completely comfortable is a privileged position in which to find oneself. I can't get on board with tillie's ridiculousness upthread, but the gnashing of teeth over putting a non-nursing child in courthouse day care for a day or two is something we are simply not going to agree upon.
but, you know, leaving your kid at the daycare at your gym is totes ok.
Well, they may breath the same air as accused!!!!! Horror abounds.
Post by redheadbaker on Oct 21, 2013 9:37:41 GMT -5
Sounds like we need to make JD less of a burden on everyone. Increase the stipend for serving? Where does that money come from? I think the last time I was called for selection, I got $7 for the day, which didn't even cover one-way train fare to the city.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Oct 21, 2013 9:39:48 GMT -5
It seems like the court could have compelled the husband's employer to give him the day(s) off work to watch the baby. (Which is also kind of sucky, but basically the same as if the father had been the one called in for jury duty.)