Post by canthelpmyself on Oct 21, 2013 10:15:10 GMT -5
In my experience, you can usually ask a neighbor or a friend (in general, not necessarily for jury duty.) In fact, it usually happens every year in Aug/Sept when it comes time to fill out the emergency contact form. Someone calls me up and says hey, is it okay if I put you down as an emergency contact because I don't have any family nearby I can ask? Sure, can I put you in return?
I would consider an exemption granted solely via a check mark on the back of the form as an automatic exemption.
I know this is just asking for trouble on my part, but at what point is it totally unreasonable for a parent to not have some kind of backup care for a day? I mean, I get it, I don't go out with my husband as often as I should, I don't have local family to rely on, etc etc etc but it seems kind of irresponsible to me.
Jury duty is really important, and although I think its important to accommodate parents where possible, I don't think that Extreme Parenting is more valuable to society than well rounded juries.
I would love to have a daytime sitter. Love it. Unfortunately around here all daytime sitters want a regular gig, and I can't give them that. So I don't know what other backup care I could get.
CHeck a local DC provider (site). They often have drop-in care.
I really think that a lot of people of privilege, like myself, have been breastfeeding kids and still shown up, so hopefully, there are enough people like me out there that can afford to lose $$ and/or have family/friends nearby to watch kids to be on juries. That being said, I would have been pissed if I was asked to do that with a baby less than a few months old. In this case, I feel bad that the mom didn't have anyone to help her out - a friend or anyone, it's a sad state about moms not having a support system or even a chance to get away from the kid when they are 4+ months old. Same for frlcb - I feel bad that you have nobody that you could leave your darling, red-headed kiddo with.
Either way, I think it is almost better to do this on a case-by-case basis rather than all primary caregivers with kids under the age of 5 or 6. To me, I think that leaves it open to those of us who can leave or kid (already own a pump/pump for work and have care). I wonder if the judge will just get upset and let her off or really fine her? It doesn't seem right to fine her since she did show up.
But do they really have lack someone or have they failed to reach out, to explore those options.
I think a big issue with contemporary moms is a shunning of a support system or at minimum, a failure to seek one out.
frlcb-there are no college students, or friends with kids that could help you out? Most sitters around here are looking for ft gigs as well, but they are happy to take an extra kid for a while for some extra money.
I've never had to use a sitter other than a friend, my nanny or my parents but I know I could get help from another mom in a pinch.
I am surprised people are surprised that it is hard to get an occasional daytime sitter. Everyone I know has this issue.
And yes I have friends with kids, and in a true emergency they would be glad to help. I am clearly alone in that I don't consider jury duty a true emergency, especially when I al Allowed to postpone because of my situation. I asse if I wasn't allowed to I would make it work out. And fwiw I have served on two juries, in DC, so I am not anti-jury.
Post by hopecounts on Oct 21, 2013 10:18:02 GMT -5
I couldn't manage child care for jury duty (wouldn't necessarily mind courthouse daycare since DD is obvs. not nursing) but here there isn't such a thing and all the daycares have wait lists so it would necessitate finding a sitter/nanny for an undetermined period of time. MIL is my go to for appointments.but she works freelance so I work around her schedule since she often has in person meetings to go to and is helping me out. In the minor car wreck scenario I imagine she would reschedule with the explanation that there is a family emergency and she needs to reschedule. No one is going to hold it against her but it could inhibit her ability to get other projects if she has to reschedule for something like watching grandkid so DIL can go to jury duty. If she was already in the meeting I would have to manage with the ipad, whatever toys are available and the kindness of the nurses until My parents could arrive from OOS or she could make it. Its one if the major issues being a SAHP if something happens ad you need emergency child care you are often completely screwed because unless you are super lucky to have retired relatives who are able and willing to take the kid(s) or live where there is some type of drop in center you typically just have to make it work and keep the kid(s) with you.
Post by canthelpmyself on Oct 21, 2013 10:20:18 GMT -5
Many of the people on care.com and other sitter sites are nannies, SAHP, and day care workers looking for a little extra money on the side. Again, not a solution for jury duty but if you don't have some kind of backup, someone you could call in the case of an emergency, I would seriously suggest you try now while you don't need someone.
This is as good a reason as any to get involved with a local moms group, play dates, library story time, MOPS, etc.
I really think that a lot of people of privilege, like myself, have been breastfeeding kids and still shown up, so hopefully, there are enough people like me out there that can afford to lose $$ and/or have family/friends nearby to watch kids to be on juries. That being said, I would have been pissed if I was asked to do that with a baby less than a few months old. In this case, I feel bad that the mom didn't have anyone to help her out - a friend or anyone, it's a sad state about moms not having a support system or even a chance to get away from the kid when they are 4+ months old. Same for frlcb - I feel bad that you have nobody that you could leave your darling, red-headed kiddo with.
Either way, I think it is almost better to do this on a case-by-case basis rather than all primary caregivers with kids under the age of 5 or 6. To me, I think that leaves it open to those of us who can leave or kid (already own a pump/pump for work and have care). I wonder if the judge will just get upset and let her off or really fine her? It doesn't seem right to fine her since she did show up.
But do they really have lack someone or have they failed to reach out, to explore those options.
I think a big issue with contemporary moms is a shunning of a support system or at minimum, a failure to seek one out.
I hope and believe it's that they haven't found someone. I know first-time SAHMs often try to take on too much, but they also feel the weight of the baby's life and world on their shoulders. It's so much easier with a support system of other moms, neighbors, friends, even family nearby, but I think the digital age lets us keep close friends with people who aren't geographically close to us and then we have to reach out to make those daily/weekly local connections and that is sometimes much harder than keeping a facebook account updated. I know I fell into that with my first kid.
Many of the people on care.com and other sitter sites are nannies, SAHP, and day care workers looking for a little extra money on the side. Again, not a solution for jury duty but if you don't have some kind of backup, someone you could call in the case of an emergency, I would seriously suggest you try now while you don't need someone.
This is as good a reason as any to get involved with a local moms group, play dates, library story time, MOPS, etc.
I don't disagree, and I said above I have friends who would help out in an emergency. I just personally don't think jury duty is an emergency. If it was a true medical thing that meant help over a period of the we would bring on the grandparents.
I don't get why some people seem to be arguing that primary caregivers should be exempt because it would cost them more money to hire a sitter. The only time I served on a jury I had to take a leave without pay for a week from my job, and believe me the fee I got from the jury duty was *far* less than I would have earned. So, it absolutely cost me money - a lot of money - to serve on that jury. If we're going to talk about costs, we should be talking about the costs to everyone.
All of that said, I do think it's ridiculous to require an EBF mom of a 5-month old to serve on a jury. Let her come back when the child is no longer breastfeeding.
It's not just the cost though. Finding a childcare situation that's possible during business hours for an indeterminate amount of time is a hardship and you can't legally leave your child home alone. In my town and the 5 surrounding towns there are exactly 3 facilities that are licensed to accept children under 2.5 years old and all of them have long wait lists (if I had the capital to invest I would so open a daycare around here). There is no drop in care around (and I've looked as I was on the job market for a while). Yes, you can hope that once there a judge will understand why sitting a trial would be an enormous difficulty as someone who isn't paid during that time but most people do have reasons why it's a hardship; either the lost income is too great or they have a higher stress career that they can't really take the time from.
I do think the hand-wringing about courthouse daycare is ridiculous though. They would be licensed and insured and I would imagine that it would be difficult for them to get away with neglect like not feeding a kid or changing their diaper without being reported quickly. While it's not the ideal situation since you don't get to vet the people in advance, many people who work f/t accept the only daycare they can afford and don't have the luxury of picking the perfect situation for them either. I do think providing daycare is the best way to allow SAHPs to serve jury duty. It's not just the cost, but feasibly finding reliable childcare when you aren't set up for f/t working hours.
And getting a family member to take off work in an emergency is different than asking for short-term full time care. We went through this when I was on bedrest and cobbling together people to take care of my other two for two months was an enormous hardship even though finding someone to watch them for a day or in a pinch is no big deal.
frlcb-there are no college students, or friends with kids that could help you out? Most sitters around here are looking for ft gigs as well, but they are happy to take an extra kid for a while for some extra money.
I've never had to use a sitter other than a friend, my nanny or my parents but I know I could get help from another mom in a pinch.
Sure I could get a college student for a few hours but very few students are available for a 8-6 gig. They typically have you know classes to attend and may not be willing to waste a skip day to babysit. All my Mom friends either use a daycare or SAH so finding a ft sitter that id able yo take on another kid indefinitely would be a challenge, though potentially doable if I used my local mom's group. I could ask a mom friend but all of mine have 2-3 kids, I'm not willing to ask them to dealwith an extra kid unless it is a REAL emergency. To the point that I have taken care of DD while puking and having diarrhea when H couldn't get off.
Its one if the major issues being a SAHP if something happens ad you need emergency child care you are often completely screwed because unless you are super lucky to have retired relatives who are able and willing to take the kid(s) or live where there is some type of drop in center you typically just have to make it work and keep the kid(s) with you.
Or you network with the scores of other SAHPs like you who have a similar need? Neighbors, houses of worship, civic organizations, parents organizations? Other SAHPs? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I also can't understand not having some sort of backup arrangement for care of children.
In our efforts to make society (including the workplace) more accommodating to parents, and particularly mothers, I don't think its necessarily healthy to create a special snowflake status for parents who are unwilling to make any sort of accommodations on their own.
It's really not even necessary to assume that you would need to be there for days; my opinion is that people should show up for voir dire & jury selection and then go from there. We have no family around, I'm a SAHP, have one kid in school and one home with me and I think I could figure out care for her on short notice for a day so I could go to jury selection. Then I could make my case for why I can't do it, the judge can decide and I can go from there.
Everyone has a reason why jury duty is inconvenient (and for the most part, no reason is more important than another), but I think the best way to get halfway decent juries is for everyone who is summoned to at least show up for selection and let the judge and attorneys decide from there (barring you being in the hospital or something like that).
Since we get called for jury duty all the freaking time in DC, and H and I travel a lot we have had a lot of experience between the two of us on this issue. I have found the juror services people to be over the top accommodating--I once re-scheduled a grand jury service by 2 months simply by calling and asking. I have repeatedly re-scheduled petite jury service as has H. H also was on a panel for a cold case murder that was more than 20 years old and had a witness list that went on for like 20 minutes. They anticipated the trial would be a week at least. He explained that he is a sole-proprietor of a political consulting company and the election was 4 weeks away. He was excused.
I mean, those aren't even really hardships--we totally would have survived in all cases, but I've found it really isn't hard to re-schedule or postpone if you have a reason. In fact when I've had to reschedule for travel I have without fail been able to choose the exact date that I would report, which made planning very easy. Last time
Maybe in some jurisdictions it is much worse (though certainly you don't get called with the frequency that we do!!), but in my jurisdiction I wouldn't support many all-out exemptions because they are so freaking accommodating to just about anything you request.
I agree completely. Having lived in DC, where I was called twice in nine years, and Alameda County, where I've been called 3 times in five years, I can tell you, I've never had an issue getting jury duty postponed. Alameda County lets you postpone up to a year, no questions asked.
I understand a lot of jurisdictions are different, and that's what is so frustrating about these conversations. People bring their experiences in and believe that's the case in all. The solution isn't really to give broad exemptions to everyone, it's to adopt procedures similar to counties where it works. If the courthouse day care is too grody and filled with poor people for you to leave preshus there (or your courthouse doesn't offer such a thing), postpone your service for six months and figure it out. While I'm sympathetic to the argument that it's harder on a SAHP to find child care on short term notice than it is for most employees to be out of work on a short term notice, I'm not sympathetic to the argument that SAHP occupy the most privileged place in society and should be exempt from a civic duty when given ample time to figure out it.
and like eclaires said, showing up to jury duty doesn't mean getting picked. IMO, judges hear everyone's excuses - legit and not - and decide who amongst the group would be most hurt by serving, and let's them off. Most of the time that means people with child care issues get excused, but it really shouldn't be up to people to decide for themselves that their problems are more important than other people's.
So what I'm starting to get here is that people do have someone. They just don't think jury duty is important enough.
The judicial system begs to differ. And that's why they want you to come on that first day so they can can judge.
Except when they don't. Clearly there is a reason they provide the option of a waiver to stay at home parents.
ESF is right. This is a hard conversation to have because everyone's jurisdictions operate differently. I had jury duty this month and we were shown a video at the beginning about how everyone must serve: doctors, construction workers, lawyers and parents. Lol.
But, to be fair, my state has a one day/one trial policy with most trials being less than 3 days, and you have the option to postpone to a future date within the next year (at least I think its a year). So that policy alone would accommodate the nursing mom in this story.
Its one if the major issues being a SAHP if something happens ad you need emergency child care you are often completely screwed because unless you are super lucky to have retired relatives who are able and willing to take the kid(s) or live where there is some type of drop in center you typically just have to make it work and keep the kid(s) with you.
Or you network with the scores of other SAHPs like you who have a similar need? Neighbors, houses of worship, civic organizations, parents organizations? Other SAHPs? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I also can't understand not having some sort of backup arrangement for care of children.
In our efforts to make society (including the workplace) more accommodating to parents, and particularly mothers, I don't think its necessarily healthy to create a special snowflake status for parents who are unwilling to make any sort of accommodations on their own.
you do realize there aren't that many SAH parents right, at least where I live most parents work. My handful of SAH friends often have activities scheduled for their kid as well as the general running around, etc. that make taking on a 3rd or 4th kid a real challenge and as SAHP we respect how hard it is with your own kid without adding a kid who is not happy to be there to the mix so we save it for emergencies. When one of our friends H's had surgery we all took turns watching her LOs so she could be at the hospital and the first couple days home so she could take care of him. That's the kind of situation where we impose on eachother like that. Not for something that could easily be avoided.
Post by sweetpea508 on Oct 21, 2013 10:41:48 GMT -5
I'm a first time SAHM with a 7 week old who is breastfeeding. All of my family/friends with kids work and I haven't developed a network of SAH friends yet. I've been having issues with low supply so I feed quite often as well as take supplements. I don't feel like jury duty is worth asking someone to call in their very limited sick days and or have to pay for childcare. Our jury duty only plays $8/day. The reason I SAH is because we can't afford childcare and I surely cant afford it on $8. This is going to be flame worthy but daycares are dirty places. The kiddo doesn't have all of his vaccinations/flu shot and I don't want him getting sick just because I had to go to jury duty. I don't think the issue is as easy as just telling SAHP's to "just deal with it."
Or you network with the scores of other SAHPs like you who have a similar need? Neighbors, houses of worship, civic organizations, parents organizations? Other SAHPs? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I also can't understand not having some sort of backup arrangement for care of children.
In our efforts to make society (including the workplace) more accommodating to parents, and particularly mothers, I don't think its necessarily healthy to create a special snowflake status for parents who are unwilling to make any sort of accommodations on their own.
you do realize there aren't that many SAH parents right, at least where I live most parents work. My handful of SAH friends often have activities scheduled for their kid as well as the general running around, etc. that make taking on a 3rd or 4th kid a real challenge and as SAHP we respect how hard it is with your own kid without adding a kid who is not happy to be there to the mix so we save it for emergencies. When one of our friends H's had surgery we all took turns watching her LOs so she could be at the hospital and the first couple days home so she could take care of him. That's the kind of situation where we impose on eachother like that. Not for something that could easily be avoided.
I would have no problem asking another SAHP to take on just one of my kids for a day or a few days. But when you add in 3 kids, one in school f/t, one in school p/t, no school busing in our town you're asking someone to have a vehicle large enough to accommodate 3 extra kids, time to run here and there for drop offs and pick ups, and deal with 3 extra kids.
you do realize there aren't that many SAH parents right, at least where I live most parents work. My handful of SAH friends often have activities scheduled for their kid as well as the general running around, etc. that make taking on a 3rd or 4th kid a real challenge and as SAHP we respect how hard it is with your own kid without adding a kid who is not happy to be there to the mix so we save it for emergencies. When one of our friends H's had surgery we all took turns watching her LOs so she could be at the hospital and the first couple days home so she could take care of him. That's the kind of situation where we impose on eachother like that. Not for something that could easily be avoided.
I would have no problem asking another SAHP to take on just one of my kids for a day or a few days. But when you add in 3 kids, one in school f/t, one in school p/t, no school busing in our town you're asking someone to have a vehicle large enough to accommodate 3 extra kids, time to run here and there for drop offs and pick ups, and deal with 3 extra kids.
exactly, it's not like the old days when most Mom's stayed at home so Little Suzy could stay with her friend from kindy and easily be picked up/dropped off with friend by the Mom, little mikey could stay with your mom friend whose little girl is also in his preschool then have lunch and bap with them, and little billy could stay with your next door neighbor who has one baby so an extra toddler is nbd.
Post by whattheheck on Oct 21, 2013 10:53:06 GMT -5
What I think is missing from this story is an explanation as to how this particular court handles postponements vs. exemptions. The story makes it sound like this woman wanted to simply be exempted for the duration of her "call period." Did she ask to postpone? Does this court have automatic postponements (my state does)? Did she use up her postponements and if so what for? Why does she need to be exempt all together? Also, in my state you can volunteer for jury duty. So many people request an automatic adjourned, figure out when they can show up, make appropriate arrangements and show up at some point before their recall to serve. There isn't enough information in this story to make an informed judgment.
Post by whattheheck on Oct 21, 2013 10:54:16 GMT -5
I also have a friend who got called for jury duty to a local town court and the jury duty was at night - is there no option in this jurisdiction to send her elsewhere that might make it easier for her?
I apparently have a low-threshold for tolerating people who shirk their civic duty. I just can't with the "it costs money!" Yeah, and so does incarcerating prisoners who are innocent who wouldn't receive a fair trial should the jury system go away.The civil good *far* exceeds any other argument in this thread.
I know I'm late in the game but I was picked for jury duty not that long ago. I couldn't find anyone to pick stay home with my kids. The week I was picked was "Jersey" week where the district has the entire week off of school. They let me reschedule and pick a better time but I still had issues finding someone to be on call if they kids were sick, get them to and from school, etc. I had no issue with the idea of serving on a jury but I have no one to help with my kids. The last time I tried hiring a babysitter, they left and didn't return the following day. I had asked my in-laws if they could help and they wouldn't. They are my BIL and SIL's free daycare. I do believe that there needs to be something in place to assist those who are the sole caregiver for their children in order to serve on a jury. My husband had to take the time off in order to accommodate and when a judge heard, he dismissed me. I'm not getting into my sob story of 3 kids with special needs but there needs to be something for those who are nursing, taking care of small children, those with special needs, or elderly.
I apparently have a low-threshold for tolerating people who shirk their civic duty. I just can't with the "it costs money!" Yeah, and so does incarcerating prisoners who are innocent who wouldn't receive a fair trial should the jury system go away.The civil good *far* exceeds any other argument in this thread.
Summary of my argument: Suck it up, buttercups.
This isn't really about the money it's about the logistical nightmare that is arranging FT temporary childcare for an undetermined time. Most of us don't live in a places where drop in care is readily available or have people who can put their lives on hold to watch our kid(s) for an unknown period of time.
I apparently have a low-threshold for tolerating people who shirk their civic duty. I just can't with the "it costs money!" Yeah, and so does incarcerating prisoners who are innocent who wouldn't receive a fair trial should the jury system go away.The civil good *far* exceeds any other argument in this thread.
Summary of my argument: Suck it up, buttercups.
This isn't really about the money it's about the logistical nightmare that is arranging FT temporary childcare for an undetermined time. Most of us don't live in a places where drop in care is readily available or have people who can put their lives on hold to watch our kid(s) for an unknown period of time.
Court. provided. daycare.
No one said it was easy. Jury duty isn't easy. But shit happens and in the course of your lifetime you're going to have to give back to society. Having children doesn't exempt you from living in this system.
I'm a first time SAHM with a 7 week old who is breastfeeding. All of my family/friends with kids work and I haven't developed a network of SAH friends yet. I've been having issues with low supply so I feed quite often as well as take supplements. I don't feel like jury duty is worth asking someone to call in their very limited sick days and or have to pay for childcare. Our jury duty only plays $8/day. The reason I SAH is because we can't afford childcare and I surely cant afford it on $8. This is going to be flame worthy but daycares are dirty places. The kiddo doesn't have all of his vaccinations/flu shot and I don't want him getting sick just because I had to go to jury duty. I don't think the issue is as easy as just telling SAHP's to "just deal with it."
Daycares are dirty places? Really? What an awful thing to say. I've used many kinds of daycares and they were all clean.
This isn't really about the money it's about the logistical nightmare that is arranging FT temporary childcare for an undetermined time. Most of us don't live in a places where drop in care is readily available or have people who can put their lives on hold to watch our kid(s) for an unknown period of time.
Court. provided. daycare.
most don't have this option. at least mine doesn't and neither does back home. If this was an option, I would be OK with it. A BF mom of a 5 month old may not be able to for various reasons. For me my kid was nursing for 30 minutes every 2.5-3 hrs during the day st that age could she be excused that much and be an effective juror?
I was called 3 times in 3 years when I lived in the city. I wasn't happy and gave excuses as to why I couldn't serve, but I have realized that a) I showed up and b) the one time I gave no excuses, I was excused due to my faith. That one was civil, and the first time I was ever called there I was brought up in front of the judge, with the accused murderer standing next to lawyer then me and was scared (we have concerns with witness safety here in Bmore) so I freaked. It was irrational, but the point is, I still went. I wasn't a parent, but my being one does not make me the world's gift.
Its one if the major issues being a SAHP if something happens ad you need emergency child care you are often completely screwed because unless you are super lucky to have retired relatives who are able and willing to take the kid(s) or live where there is some type of drop in center you typically just have to make it work and keep the kid(s) with you.
Or you network with the scores of other SAHPs like you who have a similar need? Neighbors, houses of worship, civic organizations, parents organizations? Other SAHPs? I'm not trying to pick on you, but I also can't understand not having some sort of backup arrangement for care of children.
In our efforts to make society (including the workplace) more accommodating to parents, and particularly mothers, I don't think its necessarily healthy to create a special snowflake status for parents who are unwilling to make any sort of accommodations on their own.
This isn't really about the money it's about the logistical nightmare that is arranging FT temporary childcare for an undetermined time. Most of us don't live in a places where drop in care is readily available or have people who can put their lives on hold to watch our kid(s) for an unknown period of time.
Court. provided. daycare.
Doesn't work with everyone. Some aren't cut out to work with populations of kids who are special needs. I couldn't drop my kids off and know they are safe. If they were typical kids I might be ok with it. Might...I wouldn't be ok with it knowing they have significant transition issues and communication issues. I need to know who is taking care of my kids. I need to know what their background is and know that they can understand what my kids are saying.