It's really not even necessary to assume that you would need to be there for days; my opinion is that people should show up for voir dire & jury selection and then go from there. We have no family around, I'm a SAHP, have one kid in school and one home with me and I think I could figure out care for her on short notice for a day so I could go to jury selection. Then I could make my case for why I can't do it, the judge can decide and I can go from there.
Everyone has a reason why jury duty is inconvenient (and for the most part, no reason is more important than another), but I think the best way to get halfway decent juries is for everyone who is summoned to at least show up for selection and let the judge and attorneys decide from there (barring you being in the hospital or something like that).
You don't get to cry foul over cases not making it through the grand jury, sex offenders getting too little time, drug crimes getting too much time solely because the defendant is black while going out of your way to avoid jury duty.
The courthouse daycare thing is a very minor issue because very, very few areas have a courthouse daycare so that is usually not an option.
My main issue would be *finding* an available sitter. There are no drop in daycares in my town or in either if the towns next to me (according to my extensive research and the forums in my 3000 member moms group). The further out drop in places generally do not take kids under 12 months. So I would need a nanny. But the way jury duty works here, I have to call in to the court every day for two weeks the evening prior to find out if I have to go in the morning. So I would need a nanny on call for two weeks... I guess I could start calling random people off of care.com the night before? But that seems really unsafe...
You don't get to cry foul over cases not making it through the grand jury, sex offenders getting too little time, drug crimes getting too much time solely because the defendant is black while going out of your way to avoid jury duty.
Juries don't determine length of sentence.
I'm mobile and miss my physical keyboard![/quote]
But they do determine what you are convicted of and a lesser charge = lesser sentence, right?
I guess I'm weird but I would not be comfortable leaving my 2 year old, verbal child in a court daycare for 8 hours a day for however many days. She isn't in daycare now and would freak out about it, like cry to the point she would make herself sick. I also have a 5 year old and would have to pay a significant amount to get him in an after school program.
So do a LOT of parents. Many have children not in DC who would be upset. Or have children in school where this could be an issue. Or losing out on a day of work is too expensive to be in JD for a paltry $15 or $20 a day. This sounds too much like privilege (not just your post). We NEED people to serve on JD.
Maybe it sounds like privilege, but I still wouldn't do it. It is a moot point for me anyway since our courts don't offer daycare, and I literally have no one else that I could get to watch my child. What do you do then?
They are very minimally background checked. Their experience is not verified. Most in my area do not have recent infant and child CPR or first aid training. In many states the background check only tells you about a criminal record.
Can I just point out that the "newborn" in question was 5 mos old.
I really don't consider that a newborn.
I'm not sure what difference it makes. At 5 months old, all my kids were still exclusively breastfed as the recommendation is not to start solids until 6 months of age.
Post by canthelpmyself on Oct 21, 2013 9:51:32 GMT -5
The thing people are missing is that these are options. These are all the options and possibilities you work out in the weeks after receiving your jury summons. At minimum, you find someone to help you out just for the day and then you take all these concerns to the judge. When s/he says, who has reasons they can't serve, you stand up and say, "hey, judge, I spent the last month looking but we can't afford a sitter while I serve because my child is young and my husband already took off today to watch the baby. I have no family and drop in care isn't available in our area."
The vast majority of judges will say, hey, here's a woman who tried to do her civic duty and respected the court enough to make things work for a few hours so I'm inclined to believe that she really did research her options and isn't bullshitting me. I'll excuse her.
And then you get to go a full year if not more before they pester you again.
The thing people are missing is that these are options. These are all the options and possibilities you work out in the weeks after receiving your jury summons. At minimum, you find someone to help you out just for the day and then you take all these concerns to the judge. When s/he says, who has reasons they can't serve, you stand up and say, "hey, judge, I spent the last month looking but we can't afford a sitter while I serve because my child is young and my husband already took off today to watch the baby. I have no family and drop in care isn't available in our area."
The vast majority of judges will say, hey, here's a woman who tried to do her civic duty and respected the court enough to make things work for a few hours so I'm inclined to believe that she really did research her options and isn't bullshitting me. I'll excuse her.
And then you get to go a full year if not more before they pester you again.
Why is this hard?
So what's the difference between doing this and providing a notarized letter that says the same exact thing?
The thing people are missing is that these are options. These are all the options and possibilities you work out in the weeks after receiving your jury summons. At minimum, you find someone to help you out just for the day and then you take all these concerns to the judge. When s/he says, who has reasons they can't serve, you stand up and say, "hey, judge, I spent the last month looking but we can't afford a sitter while I serve because my child is young and my husband already took off today to watch the baby. I have no family and drop in care isn't available in our area."
The vast majority of judges will say, hey, here's a woman who tried to do her civic duty and respected the court enough to make things work for a few hours so I'm inclined to believe that she really did research her options and isn't bullshitting me. I'll excuse her.
And then you get to go a full year if not more before they pester you again.
Why is this hard?
We have to call in every evening for two weeks to find out about serving the next day. What option would I use? I'm fairly laid back, but if my h was out of town for work then I'm honestly not sure what I could do... A stranger off of care.com is dangerous.
Post by redheadbaker on Oct 21, 2013 9:56:55 GMT -5
If they are going to get JD postponed anyway, why not just let them list that reason on the card you mail back and not make them go through all of that in the first place?
So do a LOT of parents. Many have children not in DC who would be upset. Or have children in school where this could be an issue. Or losing out on a day of work is too expensive to be in JD for a paltry $15 or $20 a day. This sounds too much like privilege (not just your post). We NEED people to serve on JD.
Maybe it sounds like privilege, but I still wouldn't do it. It is a moot point for me anyway since our courts don't offer daycare, and I literally have no one else that I could get to watch my child. What do you do then?
I am leaning towards it IS privilege. No, not everyone can afford it, but not everyone who is NOT a parent can afford it either and they still ahve to show up on day 1 to explain their case. Should be for parent as well. What would you do if you got sick and had to get somewhere asap. Much like a doctor, I need to have a plan for the what if. SOmeone I can turn to if there is an issue. Drop-off DC is something I would check in to as a just in case, but I understand that is how I live my life and not all plan in the same way. BUT, that doesn't exempt a parent automatically in our system.
If they are going to get JD postponed anyway, why not just let them list that reason on the card you mail back and not make them go through all of that in the first place?
We have to call in every evening for two weeks to find out about serving the next day. What option would I use? I'm fairly laid back, but if my h was out of town for work then I'm honestly not sure what I could do... A stranger off of care.com is dangerous.
What would you do if you got into a car accident while your husband was out of town? Minor car accident but you're at the ER for six hours. There's no one you could call who would do you the favor of coming to get your child for a while? No mom friends, the wife of your husband's friend, your boss's daughter, the pastor's wife?
If they are going to get JD postponed anyway, why not just let them list that reason on the card you mail back and not make them go through all of that in the first place?
I'm mobile and miss my physical keyboard!
Guess it depends where you live. I don't recall receiving a card like that when I was summoned. I never looked into how I could request a waiver since I didn't need it, so I just went ahead and followed the procedure to go in (which is to call in each night to hear if I need to go in, and I can understand how that makes childcare difficult).
We have to call in every evening for two weeks to find out about serving the next day. What option would I use? I'm fairly laid back, but if my h was out of town for work then I'm honestly not sure what I could do... A stranger off of care.com is dangerous.
What would you do if you got into a car accident while your husband was out of town? Minor car accident but you're at the ER for six hours. There's no one you could call who would do you the favor of coming to get your child for a while? No mom friends, the wife of your husband's friend, your boss's daughter, the pastor's wife?
Everyone works full time. In a true emergency I am sure someone would leave work, but would you really ask a not super close friend to take off from work to watch your kids for jury duty? That seems BSC to me.
And I did have to take my kid to urgent care with me once to get stitches on my hand. It sucked. He stayed strapped in his stroller.
And you could go to court and claim anything. I don't see the difference.
Lying to a judge's face takes some balls. Doing is successfully without fidgeting takes some work.
And I'm sure it happens all the time, right or wrong. I'm glad there are people that are willing to go to whatever lengths possible to show up for jury duty. I'm also glad my county affords me the right to postpone it while I am a full time caregiver to my kids under 6.
I know this is just asking for trouble on my part, but at what point is it totally unreasonable for a parent to not have some kind of backup care for a day? I mean, I get it, I don't go out with my husband as often as I should, I don't have local family to rely on, etc etc etc but it seems kind of irresponsible to me.
Jury duty is really important, and although I think its important to accommodate parents where possible, I don't think that Extreme Parenting is more valuable to society than well rounded juries.
Everyone works full time. In a true emergency I am sure someone would leave work, but would you really ask a not super close friend to take off from work to watch your kids for jury duty? That seems BSC to me.
And I did have to take my kid to urgent care with me once to get stitches on my hand. It sucked. He stayed strapped in his stroller.
You do understand that this isn't the case for the majority of people. I'll even argue it's not the case for you. You have decided there is a very, very narrow standard for who gets to keep your kid, under what conditions, and you're comfortable wrapped in that little cocoon. Like it or not, that is privilege and it's privilege that contributes to why our judicial system is so screwed.
The thing people are missing is that these are options. These are all the options and possibilities you work out in the weeks after receiving your jury summons. At minimum, you find someone to help you out just for the day and then you take all these concerns to the judge. When s/he says, who has reasons they can't serve, you stand up and say, "hey, judge, I spent the last month looking but we can't afford a sitter while I serve because my child is young and my husband already took off today to watch the baby. I have no family and drop in care isn't available in our area."
The vast majority of judges will say, hey, here's a woman who tried to do her civic duty and respected the court enough to make things work for a few hours so I'm inclined to believe that she really did research her options and isn't bullshitting me. I'll excuse her.
And then you get to go a full year if not more before they pester you again.
Why is this hard?
So what's the difference between doing this and providing a notarized letter that says the same exact thing?
I guess it depends on the judge, but I know in my experience part of the problem was needing x # of people there to meet jury selection requirements and that most people would just call and expect to be waived. Anyone who showed up, showed respect for the court and offered a reasonable argument for the hardship were given a waiver/delay. Honestly, I have no idea what people in this thread would do, but most people who want a waiver or call beforehand are jackasses who think they are special and typically are not very pleasant to deal with, IME. Judges are human, too, and get tired of dealing with all the BS people do regarding jury selection. It's a PITA to let people be special snowflakes. And jury duty is a PITA for most people, so there's really no need to give anyone special treatment (IMO). It's a lot easier for the entire process to just require the same for everyone (show up 1 day, make your case). And yes, I know people have employers claiming it's a hardship and everything else. I just think it's better, overall, to have one rule - show up, make your case. As for places you have to call for two weeks, I think that process is pretty shitty, and I'd be more likely to think offering exemptions/waivers in advance vs. showing up would make sense because it's a more onerous requirement (2 weeks on call vs. 1 day of showing up to make your case).
The thing is, everyone has a reason and no reason is really more important than another, which is why the judges want people there for the actual jury selection so they can make a judgment call on those people. The whole point is to have a big pool to select from and those not showing up or asking for a waiver in advance make that more difficult for everyone.
I know this is just asking for trouble on my part, but at what point is it totally unreasonable for a parent to not have some kind of backup care for a day? I mean, I get it, I don't go out with my husband as often as I should, I don't have local family to rely on, etc etc etc but it seems kind of irresponsible to me.
Jury duty is really important, and although I think its important to accommodate parents where possible, I don't think that Extreme Parenting is more valuable to society than well rounded juries.
I would love to have a daytime sitter. Love it. Unfortunately around here all daytime sitters want a regular gig, and I can't give them that. So I don't know what other backup care I could get.
I know this is just asking for trouble on my part, but at what point is it totally unreasonable for a parent to not have some kind of backup care for a day? I mean, I get it, I don't go out with my husband as often as I should, I don't have local family to rely on, etc etc etc but it seems kind of irresponsible to me.
Jury duty is really important, and although I think its important to accommodate parents where possible, I don't think that Extreme Parenting is more valuable to society than well rounded juries.
I was wondering this too. I wonder how anyone is comfortable without having at least some kind of worse case scenario for back up care for their child. Anything could happen to me, to my husband, or one of my children. There has to be someone.
Outside of the topic of jury duty, if you honestly don't have anyone, I think it time you sat down and fixed that.
If they are going to get JD postponed anyway, why not just let them list that reason on the card you mail back and not make them go through all of that in the first place?
I'm mobile and miss my physical keyboard!
Because it shouldn't be an automatic exemption.
Doesn't have to be automatic. In my city, you get a summons. It asks you for some info (it's been a long time, I forget what they ask), and there's space to request postponement/exemption. You write in your reason and mail it back.
After a period of time, you get a letter back and it will either say "approved" with your postponed date, or "denied, show up on your original date."
I know this is just asking for trouble on my part, but at what point is it totally unreasonable for a parent to not have some kind of backup care for a day? I mean, I get it, I don't go out with my husband as often as I should, I don't have local family to rely on, etc etc etc but it seems kind of irresponsible to me.
Jury duty is really important, and although I think its important to accommodate parents where possible, I don't think that Extreme Parenting is more valuable to society than well rounded juries.
I would love to have a daytime sitter. Love it. Unfortunately around here all daytime sitters want a regular gig, and I can't give them that. So I don't know what other backup care I could get.
I don't have a daytime sitter, either, but I do have people I could call in an emergency - like someone mentioned with a car accident or whatever. I've never taken them up on it, but I know that if I needed care on short notice, I have a few people I could ask. Most of them are not my best friends as we're relatively new to the area, but they are people I feel like I know well enough (Scarlett's best friend's mom, my neighbor who has a son Scarlett's age and is a SAHP, my other neighbor that has all school age kids that I take to school when her husband is working OOT - she's a nurse who works only a few shifts randomly). None of these are ideal, regular care, but something I could work out, if necessary for a short term/short notice situation.
Post by downtoearth on Oct 21, 2013 10:15:02 GMT -5
I really think that a lot of people of privilege, like myself, have been breastfeeding kids and still shown up, so hopefully, there are enough people like me out there that can afford to lose $$ and/or have family/friends nearby to watch kids to be on juries. That being said, I would have been pissed if I was asked to do that with a baby less than a few months old. In this case, I feel bad that the mom didn't have anyone to help her out - a friend or anyone, it's a sad state about moms not having a support system or even a chance to get away from the kid when they are 4+ months old. Same for frlcb - I feel bad that you have nobody that you could leave your darling, red-headed kiddo with.
Either way, I think it is almost better to do this on a case-by-case basis rather than all primary caregivers with kids under the age of 5 or 6. To me, I think that leaves it open to those of us who can leave or kid (already own a pump/pump for work and have care). I wonder if the judge will just get upset and let her off or really fine her? It doesn't seem right to fine her since she did show up.
ETA: The real flammable thing here is that the kid is a GIRL named Axel?!