I think it's ridiculous to expect a SAHM who has been EBF for five months to suddenly learn how to pump, purchase pumping supplies, cross her fingers and hope baby takes a bottle, and leave baby with strangers she has had neither the time nor the option to research or choose.
Then why didn't she submit ahead of time? I am all for exceptions when asked, but not following the rules (and, really, going in to sign in and ask to be excused takes all of maybe 1-2 hours. Â I have not BF, but I'd imagine that is not too long to go without BF.
I thought she did this though and they denied her request. Was there another article with more info that I missed?
I think it's ridiculous to expect a SAHM who has been EBF for five months to suddenly learn how to pump, purchase pumping supplies, cross her fingers and hope baby takes a bottle, and leave baby with strangers she has had neither the time nor the option to research or choose.
Then why didn't she submit ahead of time? I am all for exceptions when asked, but not following the rules (and, really, going in to sign in and ask to be excused takes all of maybe 1-2 hours. I have not BF, but I'd imagine that is not too long to go without BF.
Or shown up to court without the kid in tow and explain the situation in person?
Can people explain how their counties work? Where is it that people are expected to show up at the drop of a hat and cannot request a new date under any circumstance?
I lived in Bmore City and was not able to write in ahead (well, not to my recollection), but we could ask for it if we showed up that AM. They do allow for medical (with proof) or military (same). Otherwise, you have to go and plead case.
I think it's ridiculous to expect a SAHM who has been EBF for five months to suddenly learn how to pump, purchase pumping supplies, cross her fingers and hope baby takes a bottle, and leave baby with strangers she has had neither the time nor the option to research or choose.
I'm a first time SAHM with a 7 week old who is breastfeeding. All of my family/friends with kids work and I haven't developed a network of SAH friends yet. I've been having issues with low supply so I feed quite often as well as take supplements. I don't feel like jury duty is worth asking someone to call in their very limited sick days and or have to pay for childcare. Our jury duty only plays $8/day. The reason I SAH is because we can't afford childcare and I surely cant afford it on $8. This is going to be flame worthy but daycares are dirty places. The kiddo doesn't have all of his vaccinations/flu shot and I don't want him getting sick just because I had to go to jury duty. I don't think the issue is as easy as just telling SAHP's to "just deal with it."
Sho is and they gon get you!!
::screams::
Oh sweetpea. You totally made it worth the effort to catch up on this thread.
They run one at our elementary school, but there's no "drop in" option. It's a pay by the month service. I just pulled out the paperwork and if you need 5 days a week until 6 pm it's $485.
I think it's ridiculous to expect a SAHM who has been EBF for five months to suddenly learn how to pump, purchase pumping supplies, cross her fingers and hope baby takes a bottle, and leave baby with strangers she has had neither the time nor the option to research or choose.
Then why didn't she submit ahead of time? I am all for exceptions when asked, but not following the rules (and, really, going in to sign in and ask to be excused takes all of maybe 1-2 hours. I have not BF, but I'd imagine that is not too long to go without BF.
Exactly. And I guarantee the judge was pissed that she didn't follow the rules and showed up with her kid. I've seen a similar situation happen, where someone brought their kids and the judge was really angry that she disregarded the rules (that she knew, because she had called).
I will say that I do think an exemption for BFing mothers (without making them show up) makes sense for the court because of the necessity of pumping breaks and not knowing how long it will take for the court to get through exemptions and getting stuff started (possibly longer than feasible to be away from a baby). However, in this case, even for jury selection, the judge was accommodating and she could have brought someone so she could breastfeed as needed. She knew that, and didn't show up with someone - that's why she's in contempt.
Random related question: On the days they pull jurors from the street because not enough candidates showed up that day, what happens in that instance. Can you say, "no, sorry, can't do it today?"
Random related question: On the days they pull jurors from the street because not enough candidates showed up that day, what happens in that instance. Can you say, "no, sorry, can't do it today?"
Random related question: On the days they pull jurors from the street because not enough candidates showed up that day, what happens in that instance. Can you say, "no, sorry, can't do it today?"
Are you talking about a specific incident?
I've never heard of this happening in Chicago.
It's happened here in CO in a neighboring county. Sheriff's Deputies pulled in 70 random people off the street to seat a jury because no one showed up that day.
Can people explain how their counties work? Where is it that people are expected to show up at the drop of a hat and cannot request a new date under any circumstance?
I lived in Bmore City and was not able to write in ahead (well, not to my recollection), but we could ask for it if we showed up that AM. They do allow for medical (with proof) or military (same). Otherwise, you have to go and plead case.
This is insane to me.
I don't believe that people should need a reason to postpone. I think everyone should be entitled to one generous postponement per summons as a matter of right, and no one person's exemption is more important than others. I don't understand why the business community has not lobbied to change this. What do you do if you have a trip (personal or work) planned for the day you are summoned?
I think parents would have better luck changing the rules if they made the rules apply to everyone. Businesses don't love that they have to comply with jury duty, but I imagine parents would get their support if they made reasonable demands - e.g. easy postponements for all - that would benefit everyone.
It's happened here in CO in a neighboring county. Sheriff's Deputies pulled in 70 random people off the street to seat a jury because no one showed up that day.
Wow, that's crazy! I've never heard of that happening! Around here so many people show up that DH has served a few times and never been anywhere but the "holding pen." After 3 or 4 days of sitting around doing his research waiting to be called he was told he satisfied the requirement, they signed his paper and sent him on his way.
Then why didn't she submit ahead of time? I am all for exceptions when asked, but not following the rules (and, really, going in to sign in and ask to be excused takes all of maybe 1-2 hours. I have not BF, but I'd imagine that is not too long to go without BF.
Exactly. And I guarantee the judge was pissed that she didn't follow the rules and showed up with her kid. I've seen a similar situation happen, where someone brought their kids and the judge was really angry that she disregarded the rules (that she knew, because she had called).
Not snarky, but what was she supposed to have done instead? As I read it, she asked for an exemption and was denied, and that was the end of her options, besides bringing the baby with her.
Did I miss something? Was there more info given elsewhere?
If there was a procedure she was supposed to have followed that would have let her defer 6 months or something and she chose to just show up instead with baby in tow, then I'd agree with you. But it sounded to me like she was given basically no options.
Then why didn't she submit ahead of time? I am all for exceptions when asked, but not following the rules (and, really, going in to sign in and ask to be excused takes all of maybe 1-2 hours. I have not BF, but I'd imagine that is not too long to go without BF.
I thought she did this though and they denied her request. Was there another article with more info that I missed?
Reading fail. I thought she hadn't. I just reread and saw it. I blame anecdotes and this story.
Exactly. And I guarantee the judge was pissed that she didn't follow the rules and showed up with her kid. I've seen a similar situation happen, where someone brought their kids and the judge was really angry that she disregarded the rules (that she knew, because she had called).
Not snarky, but what was she supposed to have done instead? As I read it, she asked for an exemption and was denied, and that was the end of her options, besides bringing the baby with her.
At which point she knew she was in contempt and shouldn't be surprised that this happened.
It's happened here in CO in a neighboring county. Sheriff's Deputies pulled in 70 random people off the street to seat a jury because no one showed up that day.
Presumably, then, this didn't have anything to do with that county allowing certain waivers and everyone getting excused all at once (and if it did, that county needs to figure out a better system for their waivers than they've evidently got). EIther way, I'm not seeing how it's relevant to this discussion. I mean, one time when I was on trial, we had to delay jury selection by a day because we went through two pools and did not yet have a complete jury. There weren't enough "left overs" in the pen, so we decided to wait to the next day. Also, I like marshmallows in my hot chocolate.
I did preface it as random related. Plus, one of these people could have been a mother. Which is related to the thread.
Meaning, life happens, you still need to show up for jury duty.
It's happened here in CO in a neighboring county. Sheriff's Deputies pulled in 70 random people off the street to seat a jury because no one showed up that day.
Wow, that's crazy! I've never heard of that happening! Around here so many people show up that DH has served a few times and never been anywhere but the "holding pen." After 3 or 4 days of sitting around doing his research waiting to be called he was told he satisfied the requirement, they signed his paper and sent him on his way.
It's made urban legend status around here. I know certain people who will not go near the courthouse on jury days. I think it may have happened once or twice here as well, but not to that extent.
Honestly, the problem here is that all of you lived in counties with fucked up systems.
Alameda County's system is genius. While you get called more often (I get a summons every year, a year to the date of my last service), you can postpone for a year, and choose your new date for whenever you want. And it's one day or one trial. And you don't even have to go to a holding pen. Rather, the night before, you call a number (or look online) and they tell you if you have to come in for 9. If not, they tell you to check back at 11. Then you check at 11, and if they don't need you, they tell you your service is complete. Otherwise, you go in, and if you do, you are guaranteed to make it into a courtroom for voir dire. Child care is provided. If you aren't chosen to serve, your service is complete.
It's a brilliant system, everyone's hardships are taken into account by the fact that you've got a year to postpone and none of this sitting around uncertain for days on end.
Post by vanillacourage on Oct 21, 2013 12:05:21 GMT -5
Question: mom in OP is called. Court has daycare, which she takes advantage of. Baby is so young that it needs to nurse every hour or two.
Do they call a recess every time the baby needs to nurse? Do they just let it scream all day if it won't take a bottle? At any point is the court's care considered neglectful, since the food source the baby wants is being withheld at the court's order?
I lived in Bmore City and was not able to write in ahead (well, not to my recollection), but we could ask for it if we showed up that AM. They do allow for medical (with proof) or military (same). Otherwise, you have to go and plead case.
This is insane to me.
I don't believe that people should need a reason to postpone. I think everyone should be entitled to one generous postponement per summons as a matter of right, and no one person's exemption is more important than others. I don't understand why the business community has not lobbied to change this. What do you do if you have a trip (personal or work) planned for the day you are summoned?
I think parents would have better luck changing the rules if they made the rules apply to everyone. Businesses don't love that they have to comply with jury duty, but I imagine parents would get their support if they made reasonable demands - e.g. easy postponements for all - that would benefit everyone.
I blame a very small pool of eligible people (see both me and DH being called 1x a year for 3 years). I found this (I have never heard of a hardship being allowed...i did see doctors coming in their scrubs, religious in their clerics clothes, etc to aid in their cause):
6. Can I be excused from jury service?
Under certain very limited circumstances, you can be excused from jury service.
You must show that excusal is required because of extreme inconvenience, public necessity, or undue hardship. Being excused is intended to be used only for the most serious of situations. It is not a way to avoid jury service because it is inconvenient or you do not want to serve. Being excused does not mean that you will never be called for jury service. An excusal is good only for the period for which it is necessary. When that period ends, you will be called for jury service. If you believe that your circumstances meet the criteria for being excused, contact your local Jury Office for more information. -top- 7. Can I change the date of my jury service?
Your date of jury service sometimes can be changed if there is a pressing reason, for example, a previously scheduled medical procedure or travel plans. In some circumstances, you can make this change online.
If you received your Juror Summons from one of the counties/Baltimore City that permit the Juror Qualification Form to be completed online, you can also go online to make a one-time change in your report date. Your form will state whether you can use the online system. Go here to make the change online. If you received your summons from a county that does not have an online system, or if you cannot change the date online, contact your local Jury Office to discuss your situation.
Not snarky, but what was she supposed to have done instead? As I read it, she asked for an exemption and was denied, and that was the end of her options, besides bringing the baby with her.
At which point she knew she was in contempt and shouldn't be surprised that this happened.
so she was suppossed to leave her 5 month old who refuses bottles with someone they weren't used to and who wasn't used to them and let the baby go without eating all day?
Marylander signing in, I've never been called in all my 13 years of being an official resident here. If you are in certain counties are you more/less likely? Marylanders, weigh in!
ETA - DH has never either and he's been a MD resident his whole 36 years of life
most don't have this option. at least mine doesn't and neither does back home. If this was an option, I would be OK with it. A BF mom of a 5 month old may not be able to for various reasons. For me my kid was nursing for 30 minutes every 2.5-3 hrs during the day st that age could she be excused that much and be an effective juror?
I can't with this argument. I just can't. I wasn't given the option to be around my kid during the day. Should I have been given the option to bring my 5 mo to work?
This isn't a mommy-war. This is a "do you want to live in this society" argument. Again, being a mother doesn't excuse you from having to perform your civic duty.
Lots of SAHMs do have people around who can help. My parents and my FIL are all retired and I have a regular daytime sitter so I don't gave a problem finding people to leave my kids with. I completely understand hopecounts and penguingrrl's arguments though and don't think they should have to scramble to find patchwork childcare that they're not comfortable with. It's a case by case thing. I don't think anyone's making a blanket statement that SAHMs have some special status and shouldn't have to serve.
At which point she knew she was in contempt and shouldn't be surprised that this happened.
so she was suppossed to leave her 5 month old who refuses bottles with someone they weren't used to and who wasn't used to them and let the baby go without eating all day?
Exactly. And I guarantee the judge was pissed that she didn't follow the rules and showed up with her kid. I've seen a similar situation happen, where someone brought their kids and the judge was really angry that she disregarded the rules (that she knew, because she had called).
Not snarky, but what was she supposed to have done instead? As I read it, she asked for an exemption and was denied, and that was the end of her options, besides bringing the baby with her.
Did I miss something? Was there more info given elsewhere?
If there was a procedure she was supposed to have followed that would have let her defer 6 months or something and she chose to just show up instead with baby in tow, then I'd agree with you. But it sounded to me like she was given basically no options.
She was told to bring someone with her to care for the baby so she could still BF. I don't know that it's the best option, and maybe she couldn't find anyone, but whether reasonable or not, from the judge's perspective, she was given an alternative and I would not be surprised if that is why she's seeing consequences.
From personal experience, I have seen the shenanigans people engage in when trying to get out of jury duty. Mothers of young children were some of the worst offenders, honestly, and expected to be immediately given an exemption even though that was not how it worked in our jurisdiction (and clearly doesn't work like that in this lady's jurisdiction). Some jurisdictions/courts let you delay or get a waiver via mail or phone, I guess, but the judge I worked for wanted people to show up (partially because of needing x # of people there for jury selection). I also think that gives the judge the opportunity to weigh people's reasons and know how many need to delay or be exempted from that specific jury pool - then the judge can decide who has the most persuasive need to leave.
I just don't think it's so onerous to expect people to show up for one day for a few hours, but depending on how a court or jurisdiction handles it, it could be more difficult, I guess. I also wouldn't be opposed to people having a 6m delay option like ESF suggested.
so she was suppossed to leave her 5 month old who refuses bottles with someone they weren't used to and who wasn't used to them and let the baby go without eating all day?
people do this everyday b/c they have no other options and it works for them in most cases
the baby might not eat all day but they might not eat all day with your MIL watching it too and will nurse at night. it wont starve and die in one day.
but is a mom who knows her baby isn't eating in the right head space to decide the fate of someone's life? I know my friend who did this to try to get her baby to take a bottle was a mess and I wouldn't want her sitting on a jury she was way too upset and distracted.
plus mom will need frequent pump breaks to keep from leaking/becoming engorged/risking supply. Is the court going to stop every couple hours for 30 minutes so Mom can pump?