Post by melindafelinda on Jun 28, 2012 15:18:08 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
But aren't we as a society trying to get to some optimal existence? Isn't that the goal and we're all pushing and pulling and compromising trying to find something that most closely matches a happy medium for all?
Why compromise on sexual satisfaction?
Is it more important that the parents religious freedoms are protected or the child's penis?
If you want a happy medium for all go read "Brave New World" and see how that pans out.
Life is about individuals. What makes me happy will not make you happy. Reducing joy to meeting neutral mutually agreeable parameters is destroying it.
Hence why grown ass people can make their OWN choices. Children can't.
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
"Um Jack, I had a sort of funny discussion with God last night and um, he thinks we should all cut our penises like and that would make him happy, so the fellas and I talked it over already and that's what we're going to do. You with us? Or what?"
There is a fantastic joke in here somewhere about Schweinsteiger, the Euro, Angela Merkel and Greece being in flames.
Give me a minute. My opinion is that it's an odd thing to make illegal, and I'm really annoyed because my friend just left and she is married to a German guy and they have two sons so I'll need her take on this.
:heart:
I told H how one of my aunts said that I should NOT do this if we have a boy (and she's Christian) and he was all, "Wait. What? That's so weird to not have it done."
He also said after being present for our niece's baptisim, "I can't believe there are babies here with their ear's pierced. That's so cruel!!!"
If you want a happy medium for all go read "Brave New World" and see how that pans out.
Life is about individuals. What makes me happy will not make you happy. Reducing joy to meeting neutral mutually agreeable parameters is destroying it.
Hence why grown ass people can make their OWN choices. Children can't.
But grown ass parents can and will make many choices for their children, some that meet the parameters of conventional wisdom and some that won't.
Should feeding children fast food be illegal. Should CPS be able to come take away my son because I spanked him for throwing a golf ball at my face? Should parents be required to save money for their children's higher education or be fined?
The ABSOLUTE MINIMUM should be mandated. Anything more is taking our children away from us. Obviously many of us will disagree about what the absolute minimum is. For me its pretty far down the line.
Hence why grown ass people can make their OWN choices. Children can't.
But grown ass parents can and will make many choices for their children, some that meet the parameters of conventional wisdom and some that won't.
Should feeding children fast food be illegal. Should CPS be able to come take away my son because I spanked him for throwing a golf ball at my face? Should parents be required to save money for their children's higher education or be fined?
The ABSOLUTE MINIMUM should be mandated. Anything more is taking our children away from us. Obviously many of us will disagree about what the absolute minimum is. For me its pretty far down the line.
Not cutting any part of their bodies off seems like the absolute minimum to me. I mean, why not chop the end of their noses? That may only have minimal complications, no?
Anyway, we could keep arguing on this till our faces are like this :@ and we would just keep repeating ourselves and nobody would change their minds.
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
"Um Jack, I had a sort of funny discussion with God last night and um, he thinks we should all cut our penises like and that would make him happy, so the fellas and I talked it over already and that's what we're going to do. You with us? Or what?"
They were a people accustomed to making blood sacrifice in the form of domestic animals, so the idea of sacrificing a part of themselves wasnt odd. Also, it was a physical way to "mark" them as one of the chosen people. Considering other religious rites involving large body piercings, facial tattoos, ingestion of dangerous hallucinogens, foot binding, female circumcision, etc...This doesn't seem that far out of the park for me.
But aren't we as a society trying to get to some optimal existence? Isn't that the goal and we're all pushing and pulling and compromising trying to find something that most closely matches a happy medium for all?
Why compromise on sexual satisfaction?
Is it more important that the parents religious freedoms are protected or the child's penis?
If you want a happy medium for all go read "Brave New World" and see how that pans out.
Life is about individuals. What makes me happy will not make you happy. Reducing joy to meeting neutral mutually agreeable parameters is destroying it.
If we don't agree to have some mutuality then we can't amicably co-exist. Unless there are separate physical places for all the differences we have as people.
Post by vampsterdam on Jun 28, 2012 15:27:55 GMT -5
Okay help me out.
A lot of my guy friends who have had it done (born in the U.S., parents are NOT religious nor from another country) are for it. So I'm guessing this is purely cosmetic, no?
But then I know many in Europe who are religious and don't do it.
So I guess I'm not getting some of the religion bashing about this.
Overall though, I think the government should stay out of it.
Would a grown man be able to get it done there as cosmetic surgery?
"Um Jack, I had a sort of funny discussion with God last night and um, he thinks we should all cut our penises like and that would make him happy, so the fellas and I talked it over already and that's what we're going to do. You with us? Or what?"
They were a people accustomed to making blood sacrifice in the form of domestic animals, so the idea of sacrificing a part of themselves wasnt odd. Also, it was a physical way to "mark" them as one of the chosen people. Considering other religious rites involving large body piercings, facial tattoos, ingestion of dangerous hallucinogens, foot binding, female circumcision, etc...This doesn't seem that far out of the park for me.
All of those things sound like insanity to me. Literally. I can't believe any one of them got any kind of following. But penis skin cutting most of all.
A lot of my guy friends who have had it done (born in the U.S., parents are NOT religious nor from another country) are for it. So I'm guessing this is purely cosmetic, no?
But then I know many in Europe who are religious and don't do it.
So I guess I'm not getting some of the religion bashing about this.
Overall though, I think the government should stay out of it.
Would a grown man be able to get it done there as cosmetic surgery?
Jews circumcize for religious reasons. I thought everyone knew that?
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
Kinda like what's up with the first person who decided to eat an egg. "See that thing that just plopped out of that chicken over there? I bet THAT'S good eats!"
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
A lot of my guy friends who have had it done (born in the U.S., parents are NOT religious nor from another country) are for it. So I'm guessing this is purely cosmetic, no?
But then I know many in Europe who are religious and don't do it.
So I guess I'm not getting some of the religion bashing about this.
Overall though, I think the government should stay out of it.
Would a grown man be able to get it done there as cosmetic surgery?
Jews circumcize for religious reasons. I thought everyone knew that?
Yes, I know Jews do. But a lot of people have been talking about Christianity as well (I was reading about this on a news forum as well).
ok, when this part gets brought up every time we have this debate, I do want to know what guys think. I know my H has no complaints about how pleasurable he finds sex! lol
but for realz, how often is this actually a problem?
I don't think it actually is because men either experience their sexual lives as circumcised men or uncircumcised men so they only know what they have and not what could be.
I guess I can't imagine all these guys could possibly love sex any more than they do, lol. It might not be all or nothing, but I would imagine the argument of nerve damage would result in actual problems enjoying or having sex. If they are able to have sexually fulfilling lives, then I don't see the argument. (and it's not like they're all "I guess I enjoy sex enough to survive", right?)
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
Did anyone see Year One? With Jack Black and the adorably awkward kid from Juno? "What if the tip is my favorite part?!"
This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I can't believe anyone ever got a whole huge group of people to believe that in order to show their devotion to god or whatever, they had to cut the skin of then end of their penises. How did this happen? At this point it's like ingrained into people, but in the beginning?
I'm a little hesitant to reply, but there was no law, only a court decision condemning a doctor for causing injuries to a 4-year old muslim boy (the circumcision went horribly wrong).
One German member of the government has already commented against the decision, because of the religious freedom principle.
I'm a little hesitant to reply, but there was no law, only a court decision condemning a doctor for causing injuries to a 4-year old muslim boy (the circumcision went horribly wrong).
One German member of the government has already commented against the decision, because of the religious freedom principle.
(slowly walking out ...)
Why hesitant? I'm waiting for it to be thrown out.
Post by snipsnsnails on Jun 28, 2012 17:45:02 GMT -5
But moxie, the only thing I would point out there is most (perhaps all) of the pursuits of these fundamental rights of a child are only appropriated to them because of the actions of their parents/guardian.
But moxie, the only thing I would point out there is most (perhaps all) of the pursuits of these fundamental rights of a child are only appropriated to them because of the actions of their parents/guardian.
I think that's taking the parenting role a bit too far.
I mean yes, but.
Children are actuated through us, but they are not our possessions and should not be treated as such. At least that's my opinion.
Even though i personally disagree with circumcision (and i agree with booby that the method is barbaric), i still don't think it's right not to include a religious exemption. Also laws are not the best way - pps are right that education is. i think papie's point about religion is also valid but it is unrealistic. And there's no way I'm not a little bit of an asshole for agreeing with her.
Even though i personally disagree with circumcision (and i agree with booby that the method is barbaric), i still don't think it's right not to include a religious exemption. Also laws are not the best way - pps are right that education is. i think papie's point about religion is also valid but it is unrealistic. And there's no way I'm not a little bit of an asshole for agreeing with her.
LOL which makes me a lot of an asshole I guess?
Oh and I agree with AB's last comment. I haven't agreed with AB that much in a long time. Some threads surprise you
A little but what can ya do? I think you're right. But i also wholly believe in religious freedom and think it's important for society - hence the unrealistic part.
Also I'm like 80% certain it's specifically HIV 2 they've done the studies on - in Africa.
Post by snipsnsnails on Jun 28, 2012 21:18:55 GMT -5
Ah, but I didn't say the right itself, I said the pursuit of that right. Meaning, that fundamentally, an eight day old has the right to life, but this is predicated on the parent/guardian, ya know, keeping them alive. Just as I believe everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion, but as an eight day old, this again is predicated on action of the guardian and rightfully so, imo.
And we touched on FGM earlier in the thread. The key differences between the two can't be glossed over as it relates to this discussion.
EDIT: Ha, I had to go back and change "8 - day - old" b/c apparently it produces an emoticon. Dang HTML. Ha.
Even though i personally disagree with circumcision (and i agree with booby that the method is barbaric), i still don't think it's right not to include a religious exemption. Also laws are not the best way - pps are right that education is. i think papie's point about religion is also valid but it is unrealistic. And there's no way I'm not a little bit of an asshole for agreeing with her.
LOL which makes me a lot of an asshole I guess?
Oh and I agree with AB's last comment. I haven't agreed with AB that much in a long time. Some threads surprise you
Ah, but I didn't say the right itself, I said the pursuit of that right. Meaning, that fundamentally, an eight day old has the right to life, but this is predicated on the parent/guardian, ya know, keeping them alive. Just as I believe everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion, but as an eight day old, this again is predicated on action of the guardian and rightfully so, imo.
And we touched on FGM earlier in the thread. The key differences between the two can't be glossed over as it relates to this discussion.
EDIT: Ha, I had to go back and change "8 - day - old" b/c apparently it produces an emoticon. Dang HTML. Ha.
But even so, it's a parent's duty to look after the child and the child's best interests, not the parent's best interests. The parent should be trying to support the child.