GASP! Guess what ladies... I also wear a full face of makeup when I'm sitting in my house on a Saturday in my pjs, doing nothing but watching Gilmore girls and reading. But I'm in Chucks... so is that okay?
I wear high heels because I FEEL good in them. It does change the way you walk, just like a skirt changes the way you walk & even bend over. I enjoy feeling feminine. Heels give you a better leg line, help you appear slimmer, give definition to your calf and for me personally, make my size 10 flippers look not as large. Whoever was the first person to invent heels & to find them sexy means nothing to me. What matters is how I feel. When I feel good about myself, I’m more confidant and happier.
Well... yeah. I'm just saying, what's "better" about being slimmer, or having smaller feet? Notice that I'm not saying that it's NOT better, just worth considering what exactly is better about all of this, and whether you as an individual would still agree with that assessment without having any influence from a culture that said that these things were better.
I've read that people who wear heels daily eventually have permanently shortened calves and Achilles tendons, such that wearing flats tugs at them and is uncomfortable.
ed: Dammit, this was for Pedantic. I forgot to quote her.
Look, I wear heels from time to time, even though I hate them. I wear makeup. Blahdiblahdiblah. And yes, these things can make me feel prettier. I'm not a bra-burner. (Or, I guess, a heel-hobbler.) But all Kuus is asking is WHY does that make you feel prettier? This is not an objective thing. Why don't overalls and sporting a giant bush make you feel prettier? There are historical bases for why these things are pretty, and there is a compelling argument to be made that everything considered attractive and feminine impedes mobility and emphasizes sexual characteristics. For me, it's an intellectual argument, not a "Feminists can never wear heels!" manifesto.
I don't think it's an intellectual discussion when there's only one acceptable answer to the question, and when one disagrees with that answer, they just 'don't get it'.
Post by pedanticwench on Jul 11, 2012 14:24:44 GMT -5
There is an answer to Kuus question (why does wearing heels make you feel pretty) it's just that it can be uncomfortable thinking that you might possibly (more like probably) make your choice to wear them based on a preconceived notion that they're somehow "feminine" or that they make you look "sexy."
And it doesn't necessarily reflect on you, rather it reflects on our society in general and how women are supposed to act, what they're supposed to wear, and how they supposed act and feel while they wear something.
You are thinking, "THEY'RE JUST FUCKING HEELS!" And you're right, but the connotation that goes along with them is something more.
Last Edit: Jul 11, 2012 14:25:30 GMT -5 by pedanticwench
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I wear high heels because I FEEL good in them. It does change the way you walk, just like a skirt changes the way you walk & even bend over. I enjoy feeling feminine. Heels give you a better leg line, help you appear slimmer, give definition to your calf and for me personally, make my size 10 flippers look not as large. Whoever was the first person to invent heels & to find them sexy means nothing to me. What matters is how I feel. When I feel good about myself, I’m more confidant and happier.
Why are large feet a problem? Why does changing the way you walk make you feel more feminine? Why do heels make you feel better?
Some of the answers in this thread make it obvious that you're all NOT getting Kuus's point, despite the protestations otherwise.
Try finding a good, affordable shoe selection for size 10s. It sucks!
Of course a lot of what we think is "good" is based on societal views, which is based on history. Look at models and how much thinner they are now then 10-20 years ago. Things change, as do what society finds "good". I personally am comfortable in jeans and t-shirts and don't wear heels except for special occasions. It's hard because I don't begrudge anyone the right to wear whatever they want, but I also see your point about how will the unrealistic standards of what is "good" change if that's what women in general strive for. I don't necessarily think it's just about men putting out those expectations, though - women are vicious to each other and to themselves.
I don't think high heels are ever going anywhere and have no issues with heels. I'm jealous of those who are coordinated enough to wear them regularly and with grace. I just wish that models could be bigger then a 00 because while some women are perfectly healthy at that size, it's an unhealthy goal for many to strive for and not something I want my daughters looking up to when they're old enough to be reading Cosmo and other magazines. Granted, it's my job as a parent to help shape their views, but I'm sure the media doesn't make it easy.
To answer Toledo's (and Kuss): Heels dont make me feel more feminine. I just like the way they look, just like I like flats. I dont like bush - bc I like it better trimmed I love overalls and would wear them more if I found a pair that I really liked. I had a pair from college that bit the dust a few years ago.
All that and I still fee pretty, feminine and know that Im hot
Today I feel like I could just take a nap and have Toledo talk for me, and I'd be happy with the outcome.
No, I'm getting too frustrated. People are making this into something that it's absolutely not, and it's exhausting.
No one is threatening to pry your heels from your cold dead hands, people! lol.
If you remember, this happened with my beauty and hotness thread on the Nest, too. It made me so depressed that I just went home and decided to tackle it the next day.
Why does it matter why they make me feel prettier? I mean, I get that this is the crux of the argument here, but honestly who cares? I understand society has created this for me. I don't give a fuck. I make the choice to look how I want. I can leave my house looking like a hot fucking mess or I can leave and turn heads or be somewhere inbetween. Regardless, my point is I choose how I look and I want to look differently on different days. I don't do it for anyone but myself. My H prefers me makeupless in nondescript clothes.
Maybe this means I have a raging case of the stupids, but also, I don't care!
Why are large feet a problem? Why does changing the way you walk make you feel more feminine? Why do heels make you feel better?
Some of the answers in this thread make it obvious that you're all NOT getting Kuus's point, despite the protestations otherwise.
Try finding a good, affordable shoe selection for size 10s. It sucks!
Of course a lot of what we think is "good" is based on societal views, which is based on history. Look at models and how much thinner they are now then 10-20 years ago. Things change, as do what society finds "good". I personally am comfortable in jeans and t-shirts and don't wear heels except for special occasions. It's hard because I don't begrudge anyone the right to wear whatever they want, but I also see your point about how will the unrealistic standards of what is "good" change if that's what women in general strive for. I don't necessarily think it's just about men putting out those expectations, though - women are vicious to each other and to themselves.
I don't think high heels are ever going anywhere and have no issues with heels. I'm jealous of those who are coordinated enough to wear them regularly and with grace. I just wish that models could be bigger then a 00 because while some women are perfectly healthy at that size, it's an unhealthy goal for many to strive for and not something I want my daughters looking up to when they're old enough to be reading Cosmo and other magazines. Granted, it's my job as a parent to help shape their views, but I'm sure the media doesn't make it easy.
See, I look at the super-skinny standard of beauty, and how the standard is becoming thinner and thinner as time goes on, and notice that women are overtly getting more power in the public sphere over time, and wonder if this trend is really a change-back pressure, a collective discomfort with the change in power that can symbolically be alleviated by weakening women and striving to make them disappear. To me, "we want women to be size 0" means "we want women to take up no space at all".
I feel like the only time I feel pressured to wear a heel is on a formal job interview. Which to me kind of sucks because that makes me think that's the height of professionalism for a woman shoe-wise is wearing heels. But then I can be glad that I don't feel like I have to wear heels any other time. And it's not like men's formal business wear is comfortable either. They have to wear uncomfortable suits and extra-formal shoes and ties which most men hate. So while I'm societally "made" to wear heels men are also "made" to wear ties....so I feel like at least it's comparable and not directly anti-female.
I dunno. I mean, it seems like some of the deeper questions we're looking at apply to men too. Why do men still put on a tie to get dressed up? Because they like it? Because it makes them look good? Because that's just what you do when you get dressed up? Why?
I'll have you know that trying to wade through this thread is keeping me away from the early shopping for the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale! I wanna buy some heels, dammit!
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Try finding a good, affordable shoe selection for size 10s. It sucks!
Of course a lot of what we think is "good" is based on societal views, which is based on history. Look at models and how much thinner they are now then 10-20 years ago. Things change, as do what society finds "good". I personally am comfortable in jeans and t-shirts and don't wear heels except for special occasions. It's hard because I don't begrudge anyone the right to wear whatever they want, but I also see your point about how will the unrealistic standards of what is "good" change if that's what women in general strive for. I don't necessarily think it's just about men putting out those expectations, though - women are vicious to each other and to themselves.
I don't think high heels are ever going anywhere and have no issues with heels. I'm jealous of those who are coordinated enough to wear them regularly and with grace. I just wish that models could be bigger then a 00 because while some women are perfectly healthy at that size, it's an unhealthy goal for many to strive for and not something I want my daughters looking up to when they're old enough to be reading Cosmo and other magazines. Granted, it's my job as a parent to help shape their views, but I'm sure the media doesn't make it easy.
See, I look at the super-skinny standard of beauty, and how the standard is becoming thinner and thinner as time goes on, and notice that women are overtly getting more power in the public sphere over time, and wonder if this trend is really a change-back pressure, a collective discomfort with the change in power that can symbolically be alleviated by weakening women and striving to make them disappear. To me, "we want women to be size 0" means "we want women to take up no space at all".
I definitely see that point, but how much of it is women putting that on themselves? Granted, I know less then nothing about fashion, but from the men I've talked to they seem to prefer women with some curves versus what you see on runway models now.
Post by wrathofkuus on Jul 11, 2012 14:39:18 GMT -5
I'm not saying necessarily that all the pressure for women to disappear comes from men. Societal change affects everyone, and change is always uncomfortable.
Heels don't make me feel prettier, sexier, hotter, etc. When I look at them, I don't think about how they will change whatever on my person. I just like them, the shoes themselves. That's what I like.
I also like that the coordinate with my clothes and I like that they fit even when the dress I made last year doesn't (thanks, nursing boobs.) I like that they come in different colors, different looks and that they are relatively easy to find in any price point. I like that they fit in my budget when perhaps other pick me ups do not.
But mostly, I just like heels.
I like them no more or no less than I like all my other shoes.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I wear high heels because I FEEL good in them. It does change the way you walk, just like a skirt changes the way you walk & even bend over. I enjoy feeling feminine. Heels give you a better leg line, help you appear slimmer, give definition to your calf and for me personally, make my size 10 flippers look not as large. Whoever was the first person to invent heels & to find them sexy means nothing to me. What matters is how I feel. When I feel good about myself, I’m more confidant and happier.
Why are large feet a problem? Why does changing the way you walk make you feel more feminine? Why do heels make you feel better?
Some of the answers in this thread make it obvious that you're all NOT getting Kuus's point, despite the protestations otherwise.
Why do I need to GET her point? I'm fully capable of reading and understanding both your point and Kuss's point. That doesn't mean I need to agree with it or give the answers that comply.
Large feet aren't a 'problem,' in the sense that I'm not able to function because of it. They're large in comparison to the rest of me & I'm self conscious about it. If wearing heels makes me feel more confident for whatever reason, then that trumps the origin of heels (in my life).
I'm not changing the way I look to be more feminine, since this is the way I look almost all the time. I wear a dress & heels 5/7 days a week. As already mentioned, heels give me confidence. Just like a well-fitted outfit does. Feeling put together and polished is powerful. That doesn't mean that someone else can't get that same feeling from wearing jeans & sneakers. I don't.
I guess I personally don't look at it as a feminist issue. I think society pushes us all to constantly be "better" and do more. And that's not a bad thing in moderation, but then all of the sudden you have a society where the model of beauty is to be unrealistically skinny (for most), kids who have schedules that are way too packed every day with not enough time to just play and be kids, parents who are constantly riding their kids to be better and do more, and just where things are taken to an unhealthy extreme in all regards, and not just for women. And in my mind the only way to counteract that is to be sane and moderate about it all, and teach my kids that they can dress how they want, be whatever they want, and help them to work past any stereotypes or obstacles they might encounter. And as someone who dresses casually every day, they'll see me put on a dress and makeup and heels for special events, or even just for a night out with H when I want to make more of an effort. I don't look at that as giving into societal pressures, but rather showing them that sometimes it's nice to put in an extra effort and go above and beyond what you normally do, and that everything is okay in moderation. But if one of them grows up and wants to wear heels every day, more power to her. As long as she has a healthy body image overall, I don't care what she wears.
Post by pantsparty on Jul 11, 2012 14:48:52 GMT -5
I guess an interesting question is let's say there are no heels. They've been outlawed. So now are we cutting into individual expression? Now a choice has been made which resricts options. Maybe not an important option, but a personal choice nonetheless.
That's how I look at fashion. It's an expression. Not necessarily a statement. It's a statement about how you like to dress. I think it's as simple as that for many people.
Not agreeing =/= not understanding. I think that is what bothers me about this post. I just get that "It's like talking to a brick wall" feeling from toledo and kuus on this subject. No, we hear you (most of us, I'm assuming)... we understand your point. We just don't agree.