I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
But WHAT don't you agree with? Keep in mind that no one is saying that women shouldn't wear heels. What, exactly, do you disagree with here?
Well, you may not have directly said the words 'all women should boycott heels.'
You're point, as I take it, is that shoes (or anything, for that matter) shouldn't make you feel good/feminine/sexy/whatever due to their origin and the way it plays into sexism. Wearing heels or any other overtly traditional feminine item says that you give in to a male dominated society and don't want to do your small part to change the minds of millions into equality. Even something as small as your choice in foot apparel matters in the way your mind works & your conscious choice to go against that is your silent statement against this society.
My interpretation of your words may be wrong. I'm sure you'll correct me if I am. If that is mostly true, then I 'get' what you're saying. I just don't agree with it.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
i recognize that heels are and were designed to emphasize my secondary sex characteristics in a way men find nonthreatening and sexually appealing. i wear them anyway because i, perhaps because i'm blindly buying into what's been unfortunately sold as the beautiful ideal, know that my "mobility" doesn't depend on my ability to outrun a lion, leap like a gazelle, or fuck the next man that comes along and bear his seed. my brain is unfettered by my 4" heels, and that's what i rely on, right now, to succeed as a person and a woman alongside and in competition with men.
it's a worthy exercise and can perhaps change some behaviors. i'm glad i read this post and will certainly give the ideas in here some further thought. but not ever heel-wearing woman is worthy of condescension and pity because of her apparent inabilty to realize the role she's playing in a preconstructed societal dance. i get it. i'm wearing them anyway.
But WHAT don't you agree with? Keep in mind that no one is saying that women shouldn't wear heels. What, exactly, do you disagree with here?
Well, you may not have directly said the words 'all women should boycott heels.'
You're point, as I take it, is that shoes (or anything, for that matter) shouldn't make you feel good/feminine/sexy/whatever due to their origin and the way it plays into sexism. Wearing heels or any other overtly traditional feminine item says that you give in to a male dominated society and don't want to do your small part to change the minds of millions into equality. Even something as small as your choice in foot apparel matters in the way your mind works & your conscious choice to go against that is your silent statement against this society.
My interpretation of your words may be wrong. I'm sure you'll correct me if I am. If that is mostly true, then I 'get' what you're saying. I just don't agree with it.
Well, originally my point was that heels are uncomfortable and bad for the calves and Achilles tendons, which made me question why I was wearing them in the first place. And since my answer was more along the lines of "because that's what women here wear on their feet to look pretty" rather than something more like "because I admire the form and artistry of the shoe itself" or "because they make me feel taller, stronger, and therefore more powerful" or anything like that, it led to me asking myself what exactly was "pretty" about a woman wearing heels. Hence, well, the rest of the thread.
it's a worthy exercise and can perhaps change some behaviors. i'm glad i read this post and will certainly give the ideas in here some further thought. but not ever heel-wearing woman is worthy of condescension and pity because of her apparent inabilty to realize the role she's playing in a preconstructed societal dance. i get it. i'm wearing them anyway.
and yes, heels aren't always comfortable.
I don't feel like anyone was saying this or even implying it. I really think this was an exercise in throwing around some abstract thoughts and maybe helping some understand why Kuus or anyone else hates/doesn't like heels.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Post by wrathofkuus on Jul 11, 2012 15:11:59 GMT -5
I was more trying to understand why, aside from cultural stuffs, people LIKE heels. And buried amidst the dross, I got some pretty interesting answers.
it's a worthy exercise and can perhaps change some behaviors. i'm glad i read this post and will certainly give the ideas in here some further thought. but not ever heel-wearing woman is worthy of condescension and pity because of her apparent inabilty to realize the role she's playing in a preconstructed societal dance. i get it. i'm wearing them anyway.
and yes, heels aren't always comfortable.
I don't feel like anyone was saying this or even implying it. I really think this was an exercise in throwing around some abstract thoughts and maybe helping some understand why Kuus or anyone else hates/doesn't like heels.
i read this all quickly, but i do think that there is some of that "oh, little ladies, if only you thought bigger!" underlying SOME of the discussion. i'm a condescending asshole sometimes, so i can see it.
but my post was also in response to that blog about fashion and feminism. and other discussions we've had here and elsewhere.
They shorten stride length, strain the back, feet, and pretty much every joint, muscle, and ligament in the leg, and they're not even comfortable. Who decided that this was what was feminine and attractive, and why should we listen to that person?
I think we can blame the French?
And, I hate heels, but some look pretty. I try to avoid them no to get back at the man, really, but moreso because I walk like a bow-legged dude getting an enema.
See, I look at the super-skinny standard of beauty, and how the standard is becoming thinner and thinner as time goes on, and notice that women are overtly getting more power in the public sphere over time, and wonder if this trend is really a change-back pressure, a collective discomfort with the change in power that can symbolically be alleviated by weakening women and striving to make them disappear. To me, "we want women to be size 0" means "we want women to take up no space at all".
ok, but what if I am naturally a size 0? (and don't like when people say I'm not a real woman because real women have curves - stupid posters on pinterest) what if I don't have to EVER wear heels, but buy them endlessly because I love the artistic beauty of them and wear them even when no one would expect me to? I'm not even trying to change anything to make myself more sexy/thin/attractive, I just fucking like them.
I don't feel like anyone was saying this or even implying it. I really think this was an exercise in throwing around some abstract thoughts and maybe helping some understand why Kuus or anyone else hates/doesn't like heels.
i read this all quickly, but i do think that there is some of that "oh, little ladies, if only you thought bigger!" underlying SOME of the discussion. i'm a condescending asshole sometimes, so i can see it.
but my post was also in response to that blog about fashion and feminism. and other discussions we've had here and elsewhere.
This will sound really ass-kissy, but you have nothing to worry about (if you were) if it's pinging on your 'dar as condescending. You're working successfully in a male-dominated profession. It would cancel out any insecurity about giving in to some sort of outdated feminine ideal. I always feel like women lawyers are kind of effing awesome.
I know you're wearing them anyway and owning them kind of a thing, but just saying.
See, I look at the super-skinny standard of beauty, and how the standard is becoming thinner and thinner as time goes on, and notice that women are overtly getting more power in the public sphere over time, and wonder if this trend is really a change-back pressure, a collective discomfort with the change in power that can symbolically be alleviated by weakening women and striving to make them disappear. To me, "we want women to be size 0" means "we want women to take up no space at all".
ok, but what if I am naturally a size 0? (and don't like when people say I'm not a real woman because real women have curves - stupid posters on pinterest) what if I don't have to EVER wear heels, but buy them endlessly because I love the artistic beauty of them and wear them even when no one would expect me to? I'm not even trying to change anything to make myself more sexy/thin/attractive, I just fucking like them.
No one is telling you how you should be shaped or what you should be wearing. It's a discussion of societal standards and what they represent, and also about non beauty myth related enjoyment of the same stuff.
it's a worthy exercise and can perhaps change some behaviors. i'm glad i read this post and will certainly give the ideas in here some further thought. but not ever heel-wearing woman is worthy of condescension and pity because of her apparent inabilty to realize the role she's playing in a preconstructed societal dance. i get it. i'm wearing them anyway.
and yes, heels aren't always comfortable.
I don't feel like anyone was saying this or even implying it. I really think this was an exercise in throwing around some abstract thoughts and maybe helping some understand why Kuus or anyone else hates/doesn't like heels.
I don't think anyone specifically said that, but that was the implication that I got too.
Post by wrathofkuus on Jul 11, 2012 15:26:39 GMT -5
It's always the implication people get when anyone questions a societal norm, at least initially. You should have SEEN my ire when the idea that beauty isn't some objective thing and should be examined was initially introduced to me.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
It's always the implication people get when anyone questions a societal norm, at least initially. You should have SEEN my ire when the idea that beauty isn't some objective thing and should be examined was initially introduced to me.
Well you could have said this four pages ago!! ha.
You know, I went back and re-read the first two pages and I don't see that implication at all.
I did that, too. I myself was starting to wonder if I'd blacked out and told people not to wear heels.
well, you guys agree with one another on the fundamental issue and the tone of the post, so i'm not surprised.
nor do i think anyone went all gangbusters "you're what's wrong with women today, take those heels off now!" but when i read the first couple pages, i see a lot of "if you don't try to question 'why' you're dumb."
people don't like to be told that they're dumb. it grates.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Oh, well, yeah. I do think that people who don't question why they do pretty much everything are kind of dumb.
I would actually like to do more living and less thinking, personally. (In general - not that I overthink this particular issue AT ALL.) I have always been envious of people who can just enjoy the moment w/o thinking about the past or the future or questioning or second-guessing...
nods. i'm in this camp with you. i am way too much up in my head about everything.