Wait -that Belle didn't KNOW she could change him. She didn't know what the curse was all about.
I never looked at the beast as an abusive asshole... he was grumpy and angry and selfish, yes, but remind me how he abused her?
You mean other than kidnapping her (and her father) and holding her (them) against their will? And yelling all loud and growly and getting up in her face for going into his precious rose room? And basically yelling and being a douchebag throughout the whole movie and treating her like shit? It's not like she knew about the curse and chose to weather through in case she could break it. It's a classic "if you love him hard enough he will change" message.
I mean, as plots go it's pretty much a feminist-fail. Belle as a character is pretty cool, though.
See, I saw this differently. Granted, I don't remember the whole story in detail, but I dont think Belle intentionally tried to change the Beast. I think that she saw through his ugliness and still loved him despite of it.
You mean other than kidnapping her (and her father) and holding her (them) against their will? And yelling all loud and growly and getting up in her face for going into his precious rose room? And basically yelling and being a douchebag throughout the whole movie and treating her like shit? It's not like she knew about the curse and chose to weather through in case she could break it. It's a classic "if you love him hard enough he will change" message.
I mean, as plots go it's pretty much a feminist-fail. Belle as a character is pretty cool, though.
See, I saw this differently. Granted, I don't remember the whole story in detail, but I dont think Belle intentionally tried to change the Beast. I think that she saw through his ugliness and still loved him despite of it.
And I agree that that can be a beautiful thing for a person to do. However, in the context of a woman being held captive by a strong, angry male and growing to love him, I find it kind of squicky.
See, I saw this differently. Granted, I don't remember the whole story in detail, but I dont think Belle intentionally tried to change the Beast. I think that she saw through his ugliness and still loved him despite of it.
And I agree that that can be a beautiful thing for a person to do. However, in the context of a woman being held captive by a strong, angry male and growing to love him, I find it kind of squicky.
I get that POV, but I got the sense that she got the sense that this wasn't who he really was....so...she didn't grow to love a strong, angry male.
Or....I am not remembering the story that well and, if so, nevermind.
Why doesn't Esmerelda count as a "Princess?" (besides the obvious, she's not a princess) Is it because the movie flopped?
Or Princess Eilonwy from the Black Cauldron. Most likely because the movies flopped, but also because the movie's focus is more on another character, where in all the princess movies the story is primarily about the "princess".
And I agree that that can be a beautiful thing for a person to do. However, in the context of a woman being held captive by a strong, angry male and growing to love him, I find it kind of squicky.
I get that POV, but I got the sense that she got the sense that this wasn't who he really was....so...she didn't grow to love a strong, angry male.
Or....I am not remembering the story that well and, if so, nevermind.
It's been a while since I've seen it too, but I don't really get that perspective. Someone treats you like shit but it's cool because that isn't how he "really" is? It's definitely how he is treating her. And for a good long while. Loving someone through a hard time is one thing, especially if you fell in love with them pre-douchiness and are sticking by through thick and thin. But the Stockholm Syndrome of the captive falling in love with a guy who treats her badly because he's secretly good on the inside is just icky to me.
Or maybe I am just sensitive because I read some fundie newsletter a few years back that was talking about domestic abuse and how a wife's job is to love her husband through the good and bad and to turn the other cheek and lead by example to get him back in touch with God and convince him not to be an abuser anymore. So it could be that the Beauty and the Beast plot just cuts a bit too close to home on that front.
I get that POV, but I got the sense that she got the sense that this wasn't who he really was....so...she didn't grow to love a strong, angry male.
Or....I am not remembering the story that well and, if so, nevermind.
It's been a while since I've seen it too, but I don't really get that perspective. Someone treats you like shit but it's cool because that isn't how he "really" is? It's definitely how he is treating her. And for a good long while. Loving someone through a hard time is one thing, especially if you fell in love with them pre-douchiness and are sticking by through thick and thin. But the Stockholm Syndrome of the captive falling in love with a guy who treats her badly because he's secretly good on the inside is just icky to me.
Or maybe I am just sensitive because I read some fundie newsletter a few years back that was talking about domestic abuse and how a wife's job is to love her husband through the good and bad and to turn the other cheek and lead by example to get him back in touch with God and convince him not to be an abuser anymore. So it could be that the Beauty and the Beast plot just cuts a bit too close to home on that front.
Well, I went back to google a summary of the plot (yes, I am lame like that...lol) and I was completely off base. So, yeah, I get what you all are saying. I wonder what *children* see though. I don't think they see it the way we do and for the most part are taking away a good message...to love others despite what they look like and that loving others makes a difference.
We let my 9-year-old watch Cinderella when she was 4 against my better judgment, and afterwards DH says, "Yeah, I never want her to see that again." I fell a little bit harder for him that day .
Cinderella is a terrible story. My daughter received the book as a gift a couple years ago and I thumbed through before reading it to her. I was surprised because I had forgotten just how awful it is. The book got chucked.
It's been a while since I've seen it too, but I don't really get that perspective. Someone treats you like shit but it's cool because that isn't how he "really" is? It's definitely how he is treating her. And for a good long while. Loving someone through a hard time is one thing, especially if you fell in love with them pre-douchiness and are sticking by through thick and thin. But the Stockholm Syndrome of the captive falling in love with a guy who treats her badly because he's secretly good on the inside is just icky to me.
Or maybe I am just sensitive because I read some fundie newsletter a few years back that was talking about domestic abuse and how a wife's job is to love her husband through the good and bad and to turn the other cheek and lead by example to get him back in touch with God and convince him not to be an abuser anymore. So it could be that the Beauty and the Beast plot just cuts a bit too close to home on that front.
Well, I went back to google a summary of the plot (yes, I am lame like that...lol) and I was completely off base. So, yeah, I get what you all are saying. I wonder what *children* see though. I don't think they see it the way we do and for the most part are taking away a good message...to love others despite what they look like and that loving others makes a difference.
+1
Someone above answered my question about the abuse (examples of yelling at her)if and I saw that point. I think I screen that out when I watch the movie because my childhood had a lot of that and I was even punished for reading and studying too much by one set of my parents. But I liked that Belle was a beautiful nerd who valued her smarts over her looks and saw through Gaston's facade. She was her own heroine (except during the wolves scene) and didn't take shit off the beast. And because she was strong through it all she paved a lovely future for herself. Those are all the things I recap for my daughter when we watch it. :)I. So the beast is yes a douchebag and she deserved better. But I still think belle herself rocked.
lol, that doesn't make any sense. people from brazil come in all colors, including white (see giselle bundchen), just like people from america do.
Indeed.
I was annoyed that they didn't just make his character black. He could have been royalty via a Mardi Gras krewe (namely, Zulu), but nobody consulted me, alas.
He's not white! I'd say more mocha, or is he just a white guy with a really good spray tan? However, his little old guy, is very white.
I don't understand not letting your kid watch or read these books. Yeah, some of them are douchey and shitty but idk, I just feel uncomfortable with wholesale saying, newp, can't watch this.
Their little lady brains aren't that delicate. Or at least pinky's isn't. She loves girly movies but she's having an Avengers birthday party because Thor, Iron Man, and Black Widow are bad ass.
Having recently watched many of these (and watched some MANY times) I was disappointed in this article. Spunkyiness/pluckiness/nerve is not a feminist quality, sorry. Questioning traditional standard/roles and authorities there of - yes.
Ariel, Aurora, Snow White and Cinderella are simply not feminist movies. They are love stories and the most strict of traditional love story models are simply devoid of feminist qualities. The best you can get with them and feminism is to say that these girls keep their faith/dreams/hopes alive in the face of adversity and didn't give up. Aurora and SW need a prince to save them, Ariel needs TWO men to save her, and Cinderella needs a small farm full of creatures and a magical old woman to save her ass.
Side note: We can't watch Cinderella anymore - not until its rewritten with a bonus scene of the step-sisters and stepmom being sent to time out. DD was sulking all through dinner after the dress-tearing scene.
What I hate about Jasmine is that ITS NOT HER STORY. Its Aladdin's story and its not right to compare her character to other main characters. Even so, she wants to marry who she wants and not who is assigned to her, and for a princess in medieval Baghdad that's pretty freakin feminist. It all falls apart when she chooses a Dh after... 12 hours of meeting him? Though you can't expect her to exactly demand a bunch of wining and dining given her context.
Belle is definitely a feminist character for her historical context and relative to her situation. The whole motha fukin town makes fun of her in the opening scene for reading and not wanting to get married and KU, for cripes sakes. I have more problems with other elements of the story than her individual character.
Rapunzel and Tiana are great feminist characters and imo the prince almost comes off as an unnecessary part of the story. Rapunzel even more so because Eugene's help is only situational - no true partnership let alone dependency is even established. I mean hell the girl is freakin immortal. I haven't seen the 2nd half of P&theF yet but unless the prince needs to be her deus ex machina to swoop in and help her have her restaurant (and she couldn't do it any other way) then he only serves as a way to "reward" her (through marriage) for being virtuous.
Mulan and Pocahontas are totally feminist characters. Again, I have more problems with the story than them and their actions.
What sounds so satisfying about Merida is that now on top of a feminist character you have a feminist story to go along with it.
Have you seen the Merida live actors yet? OMG so awesome!
I don't understand not letting your kid watch or read these books. Yeah, some of them are douchey and shitty but idk, I just feel uncomfortable with wholesale saying, newp, can't watch this.
Their little lady brains aren't that delicate. Or at least pinky's isn't. She loves girly movies but she's having an Avengers birthday party because Thor, Iron Man, and Black Widow are bad ass.
It's not a function of delicate lady brains, it's a function of using parental discretion to decide at what age your own child is ready to have a discussion of a particular topic.
We actually read a lot of things that are seriously shitty. Curious George involves a damn poacher, for crissakes, and we've discussed how what the Man With The Yellow Hat does is not good. I am actually eager to have the wimpy-female-protagonist-who-must-be-saved-by-a-man/women-can-never-get-along conversation with my kids; I'm just not interested in doing it today. Plus, my daughter hates princesses, which shocks me to pieces since her best friend loves them, so she actually doesn't want to read about them.
Now if the princess was a ballerina and hair stylist, she'd be all over it.
It's not a function of delicate lady brains, it's a function of using parental discretion to decide at what age your own child is ready to have a discussion of a particular topic.
We actually read a lot of things that are seriously shitty. Curious George involves a damn poacher, for crissakes, and we've discussed how what the Man With The Yellow Hat does is not good. I am actually eager to have the wimpy-female-protagonist-who-must-be-saved-by-a-man/women-can-never-get-along conversation with my kids; I'm just not interested in doing it today. Plus, my daughter hates princesses, which shocks me to pieces since her best friend loves them, so she actually doesn't want to read about them.
Now if the princess was a ballerina and hair stylist, she'd be all over it.
I see what you're saying but I don't think everything requires a discussion upon every viewing. ::shrugs::
Post by secretlyevil on Jul 13, 2012 9:22:30 GMT -5
FYI: For the Disney Half Marathon - you can choose Merida as your "princess." And because of that I am thinking about breaking my running rule and doing the 2013 race. Even though I am already signing up for two other half marathons in Feb. Oh wait - I'm already signed up for a race that same weekend. Stupid Disney trying to take runners away from another popular Florida race. Well I'm glad I'm sticking to my rule than, after Disneyland pretty much done with Disney races.
Who is your favorite Disney Princess? * Ariel Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) Belle Cinderella Jasmine Merida (Brave) Rapunzel Snow White Tiana
Merida is my new favorite. Before her, I think it's obvious it was Belle for me, because I so very much identify with her (except I DID go have my adventure in the great wide somewhere beyond a castle within a day's ride of my house).