I am now dying to know if Melinda has some really interesting and high profile job that makes her privy to info, or if she happened to know one of the families.
I wax people's vaginas for a living. I guess that's interesting.
Post by wrathofkuus on Jun 5, 2014 21:09:57 GMT -5
I am a little curious about what melinda's inside info is. Like, some medications have escalating homicidal thoughts as a side effect, and it is well-known how much more sensitive child bodies are to systemic medication side effects from even small doses. Can you imagine if, for example, the ringleader were being treated for a mental illness, and this happened?
It seems like a dangerous/risky idea to try the rehabilitation path.
Based on what information? Is there a huge number of 12 year old repeat offenders that have failed to respond to therapy and appropriate treatment? This is a fear response.
I really don't know if someone who stabs her friend and feels no remorse cab be rehabilitated. I feel terrible for her family, but that sympathy should not mean she should be treated as a juvenile. This is pre-meditated attempted murder, not shoplifting.
I am a little curious about what melinda's inside info is. Like, some medications have escalating homicidal thoughts as a side effect, and it is well-known how much more sensitive child bodies are to systemic medication side effects from even small doses. Can you imagine if, for example, the ringleader were being treated for a mental illness, and this happened?
My SS was prescribed Depakote for a while. It made him hear voices. The voices terrified him and they told him to do bad things. They kept him awake at night too, which made everything worse.
Not saying that is at all what happened with this case, but just that it does happen.
I really don't know if someone who stabs her friend and feels no remorse cab be rehabilitated. I feel terrible for her family, but that sympathy should not mean she should be treated as a juvenile. This is pre-meditated attempted murder, not shoplifting.
No, the fact that she's a prepubescent child is what means she should be treated as a juvenile. She IS a juvenile.
Post by vampsterdam on Jun 5, 2014 21:18:20 GMT -5
They showed footage of one of the fathers sobbing when the media was trying to interview him and it gave me such anxiety and sympathy for the family.
What pissed me off tonight though was people commenting on Facebook (I know, what should I expect) things like, "I grew up watching horror films and reading urban legends and I never hacked up anyone. Clearly the parents are to blame!" Ugh.
A 12 year olds brain isn't even fully developed. Their ability to fully grasp the meaning and ramifications of things aren't fully tuned yet. Add mental illness on top of that. No way this girl knew exactly what she was doing.
I really don't know if someone who stabs her friend and feels no remorse cab be rehabilitated. I feel terrible for her family, but that sympathy should not mean she should be treated as a juvenile. This is pre-meditated attempted murder, not shoplifting.
If she has an undiagnosed mental illness that wasn't being treated or a known illness that wasn't treated properly then she can absolutely be rehabilitated. Maybe she should be confined to a juvenile psychiatric facility until she is an adult and then be reevaluated. I don't think sending her to a women's prison and throwing away the key is the answer.
Post by melindafelinda on Jun 5, 2014 21:24:55 GMT -5
I know it's an emotional thing. I mostly just am so upset by the sensationalism and the casual use of "evil" and "psychopath" when it's just not true. And the way they are trying to villainize her parents with ridiculous claims of "oh, her mom posts pictures of skulls, she is a terrible parent and drove her daughter to do this!!!." It's just crap.
::I do not condone the actions of these girls AT ALL, and I have absolutely almost no information on their mental health:: However, I have to think a better Mental Health care system could have prevented this through early intervention and medical treatments. During my sisters Pediatric Neurology rotation she encountered a child who would be labeled as a 'psychopath' (I'm not sure the clinical term- so I'm using the term I'm more familiar with). They could tell that the child's brain lacked the normal connections/firings causing them to lack sympathy, remorse, love, etc. There was little they could do for the child, I have to think if there was more interest in finding a solution for these children situations like this wouldn't have happened. The problem is, its an unsympathetic cause, who wants to support finding a cure/treatment for psychopaths?
::I do not condone the actions of these girls AT ALL, and I have absolutely almost no information on their mental health:: However, I have to think a better Mental Health care system could have prevented this through early intervention and medical treatments. During my sisters Pediatric Neurology rotation she encountered a child who would be labeled as a 'psychopath' (I'm not sure the clinical term- so I'm using the term I'm more familiar with). They could tell that the child's brain lacked the normal connections/firings causing them to lack sympathy, remorse, love, etc. There was little they could do for the child, I have to think if there was more interest in finding a solution for these children situations like this wouldn't have happened. The problem is, its an unsympathetic cause, who wants to support finding a cure/treatment for psychopaths?
FTR, I don't think they're evil. I just think they (or at least the main girl) are sociopaths. That's not their fault. But they aren't fit for being in public.
Yet again, based on pretty much no information other than sensationalized news reports.
When we lived in WI, which wasn't that long ago really, we lived a half a mile from where this happened. I know enough to know the juvenile facilities in wi will not rehabilitate these girls. I don't entirely understand why they did so much research on the internet but didn't think to look to see how far Nicolet forest is from where they were, or even realize how big it is. I went to camp for years in the forest, and I wouldn't have wanted to walk around looking for anything much there.
The problem with sociopaths (or psychopaths, if you prefer that term) is that they are incredibly talented at manipulating and deceiving mental health professionals. That's what makes them so dangerous. Sociopaths CAN'T be rehabilitated. They lack the empathy and conscience that normal people have.
We don't know if that is the case. It could very well be another disorder that is treatable.
When we lived in WI, which wasn't that long ago really, we lived a half a mile from where this happened. I know enough to know the juvenile facilities in wi will not rehabilitate these girls. I don't entirely understand why they did so much research on the internet but didn't think to look to see how far Nicolet forest is from where they were, or even realize how big it is. I went to camp for years in the forest, and I wouldn't have wanted to walk around looking for anything much there.
It seems like a dangerous/risky idea to try the rehabilitation path.
Based on what information? Is there a huge number of 12 year old repeat offenders that have failed to respond to therapy and appropriate treatment? This is a fear response.
I don't know the details. In re-reading I am like "yeah, too many variables and I don't know".
More thinking out loud. I just don't know how this would work to be the standard.
Are there a huge number of repeat offenders at this level (stabbing/attempted murder)?
If something did happen after a first incident, how would people deal? What should punishment look like then?
What about cost? How would that work?
It's just really sad to think about.
I wish that the child could go back and see what would happen.
It's not a fear response to me. I am not a parent, and I don't think of it that way. I agree it's very sad to realize three lives are now ruined.
When we lived in WI, which wasn't that long ago really, we lived a half a mile from where this happened. I know enough to know the juvenile facilities in wi will not rehabilitate these girls. I don't entirely understand why they did so much research on the internet but didn't think to look to see how far Nicolet forest is from where they were, or even realize how big it is. I went to camp for years in the forest, and I wouldn't have wanted to walk around looking for anything much there.
When we lived in WI, which wasn't that long ago really, we lived a half a mile from where this happened. I know enough to know the juvenile facilities in wi will not rehabilitate these girls. I don't entirely understand why they did so much research on the internet but didn't think to look to see how far Nicolet forest is from where they were, or even realize how big it is. I went to camp for years in the forest, and I wouldn't have wanted to walk around looking for anything much there.
If only they had googled how far the forest was...
::I do not condone the actions of these girls AT ALL, and I have absolutely almost no information on their mental health:: However, I have to think a better Mental Health care system could have prevented this through early intervention and medical treatments. During my sisters Pediatric Neurology rotation she encountered a child who would be labeled as a 'psychopath' (I'm not sure the clinical term- so I'm using the term I'm more familiar with). They could tell that the child's brain lacked the normal connections/firings causing them to lack sympathy, remorse, love, etc. There was little they could do for the child, I have to think if there was more interest in finding a solution for these children situations like this wouldn't have happened. The problem is, its an unsympathetic cause, who wants to support finding a cure/treatment for psychopaths?
Everyone, you'd think.
I agree, but funding research for mental illness is a lot less sexy than funding breast cancer research (I'm not saying funding breast cancer research is bad, its just sad that other diseases/illness don't receive the same amount of funding/public support).
Post by aussiecrush on Jun 5, 2014 21:49:16 GMT -5
I think it's easy to sit on the sidelines and say lock them up for life. If it was your 12 year old, how would you want them treated? They are children. Locking the door and throwing away the key at 12 shouldn't be the gut reaction.
::I do not condone the actions of these girls AT ALL, and I have absolutely almost no information on their mental health:: However, I have to think a better Mental Health care system could have prevented this through early intervention and medical treatments. During my sisters Pediatric Neurology rotation she encountered a child who would be labeled as a 'psychopath' (I'm not sure the clinical term- so I'm using the term I'm more familiar with). They could tell that the child's brain lacked the normal connections/firings causing them to lack sympathy, remorse, love, etc. There was little they could do for the child, I have to think if there was more interest in finding a solution for these children situations like this wouldn't have happened. The problem is, its an unsympathetic cause, who wants to support finding a cure/treatment for psychopaths?
Well then. They might as well put them down like they do horses. They're hopeless.
I think it's easy to sit on the sidelines and say lock them up for life. If it was your 12 year old, how would you want them treated? They are children. Locking the door and throwing away the key at 12 shouldn't be the gut reaction.
No, not a gut reaction.
I imagine it would be a special kind of hell, too, if your child was killed by someone who it turned out could not be rehabilitated.*
* I am not talking about this case.
I don't think anything like this should be handled based on gut reactions.
Well, I just don't know. I don't think it's right to lock up a young girl in prison. I guess the question is can or can she not be rehabilitated, and the ramifications of the treatment not being successful are scary. I don't know how much of the blame can be glossed over because of her age, because she did a horrific thing. How much is her knowing right from wrong, not caring about right from wrong, mental illness? No one knows, obviously.
I wonder what the reaction would be if it was a gun. Or if this was a boy.
::I do not condone the actions of these girls AT ALL, and I have absolutely almost no information on their mental health:: However, I have to think a better Mental Health care system could have prevented this through early intervention and medical treatments. During my sisters Pediatric Neurology rotation she encountered a child who would be labeled as a 'psychopath' (I'm not sure the clinical term- so I'm using the term I'm more familiar with). They could tell that the child's brain lacked the normal connections/firings causing them to lack sympathy, remorse, love, etc. There was little they could do for the child, I have to think if there was more interest in finding a solution for these children situations like this wouldn't have happened. The problem is, its an unsympathetic cause, who wants to support finding a cure/treatment for psychopaths?
Well then. They might as well put them down like they do horses. They're hopeless.
WTF?! That was absolutely NOT the point of my post. My point is that I believe society/medicine has a responsibility to these children that we have yet to fulfill!! People talk with their money and they have not made this a priority and that's sad. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try!!!! (Note: give MF's updates my usage of these children doesn't necessarily pertain to the children in this story.)
Well then. They might as well put them down like they do horses. They're hopeless.
WTF?! That was absolutely NOT the point of my post. My point is that I believe society/medicine has a responsibility to these children that we have yet to fulfill!! People talk with their money and they have not made this a priority and that's sad. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try!!!! (Note: give MF's updates my usage of these children doesn't necessarily pertain to the children in this story.)
Calm down. I thought my sarcasm was obvious. Clearly I was wrong.
WTF?! That was absolutely NOT the point of my post. My point is that I believe society/medicine has a responsibility to these children that we have yet to fulfill!! People talk with their money and they have not made this a priority and that's sad. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try!!!! (Note: give MF's updates my usage of these children doesn't necessarily pertain to the children in this story.)
Calm down. I thought my sarcasm was obvious. Clearly I was wrong.