Update on page 14 - Another Malaysia Airlines 777 crashed???

[iammalcolmx]

Jul 17, 2014 12:38:39 GMT -5 annieblah said:

Black box found 60 KM from Russian border.

Separatists preventing Ukraine investigators to get close. Ugh

REALLY??? They fucking kidding me?

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 12:51:03 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Ok so were the airlines warned to stay out of this airspace?

US airlines were actually prohibited from part of this area, but for different reasons: 


www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/faa-crimea-warning/12783569/

During the hostilities between Ukraine and Russia, the threat of military action against a civilian airliner has been in the air for months.

The Federal Aviation Administration prohibited U.S. airlines in April from flying over Crimea, but because of concerns about air-traffic control rather than military action.


The region covered by the FAA order is south of where Malaysia Airlines flight 17 crashed on Thursday.

But the FAA took the action April 25, which is to remain in effect for one year, because of a dispute between Ukraine and Russia about which country controlled the airspace in the Simferopol region, which covers the Crimean peninsula.

The Russian Federation declared March 28 that it controlled the airspace over Crimea, as well as international airspace above the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. In response, Ukraine created a prohibited area over the Crimean peninsula for flights below 29,000 feet.


Because of the dispute, the International Civil Aviation Organization, a branch of the United Nations, warned airlines April 3 to avoid the area.

"In addition, political and military tension between Ukraine and the Russian Federation remains high, and compliance with air traffic control instructions issued by the authorities of one country could result in a civil aircraft being misidentified as a threat and intercepted or otherwise engaged by air defense forces of the other country," FAA said.

[wanderlustfoodie]

Jul 17, 2014 12:47:58 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:45:07 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

a few reports on TV were saying the passenger plane should have been high up - like 30,000 feet and only a fighter jet could have reached that high not a ground missile? 

I read that the type of system that is being alleged can shoot down things flying as high as 70,000 feet.

This. The missiles target heat (so the engines). The only commercial planes that have the capability to know when a missile has targeted them are El Al, as far as I know. But even if the plane knew it was being targeted, it's very unlikely it could've escaped the missile's trajectory. So so sad.

[elleblue]

Jul 17, 2014 12:55:08 GMT -5 wanderlustfoodie said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:47:58 GMT -5 Cicero said:

I read that the type of system that is being alleged can shoot down things flying as high as 70,000 feet.

This. The missiles target heat (so the engines). The only commercial planes that have the capability to know when a missile has targeted them are El Al, as far as I know. But even if the plane knew it was being targeted, it's very unlikely it could've escaped the missile's trajectory. So so sad.

Ugh. I feel sick. This whole thing is so horrifying. 

[cattledogkisses]

If the plane was shot down by separatists I'm wondering how this is going to play out now. I can't imagine that either side will want to be associated with them.

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 12:55:52 GMT -5 toledo said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:44:03 GMT -5 ttt said:

Donetsk commander Strelkov, longtime Russian agent, claimed credit today for shooting plane he thought was Ukrainian pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg
 

That message refers to two planes, the An-26 and Su-25 Ukrainian cargo planes, that were shot down previously.

Sorry my Russian is a little rusty    Anyway I guess Reuters didn't translate it either. 

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 12:43:18 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:38:39 GMT -5 annieblah said:

Black box found 60 KM from Russian border.

Separatists preventing Ukraine investigators to get close. Ugh

Nice. Not that there is an feelings of guilt there or anything. 

May not be guilt. The separatists don't like the current Ukrainian government. If the government is investigating this I don't see citizens in the Donetsk region where this plane crashed rolling out the red carpet for the investigators even if they understand the bigger picture here and why it's important to investigate this.

[wanderlustfoodie]

This seems plausible:

"heute", the evening news of german public channel ZDF just reported live by their Moscow correspondent that there was probably a second plane flying parallely to MH17, an ukraine military transport aircraft, and this should possibly have been targeted by the ground to air rocket.

Source: www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-asian-australian-south-pacific-airlines/1595246-breaking-malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-ukraine-july-2014-a-18.html

[pixy0stix]

Jul 17, 2014 12:56:57 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:43:18 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

Nice. Not that there is an feelings of guilt there or anything. 

May not be guilt. The separatists don't like the current Ukrainian government. If the government is investigating this I don't see citizens in the Donetsk region where this plane crashed rolling out the red carpet for the investigators even if they understand the bigger picture here.

And they might see it that the gov. is going to use it as an opportunity to regain ground there.

What a fucking shitty situation.

[ttt]

Someone posted a photo of a woman's Dutch passport that apparently fell from the air into a village

[Knight]

Jul 17, 2014 12:56:33 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

If the plane was shot down by separatists I'm wondering how this is going to play out now. I can't imagine that either side will want to be associated with them.

This is Putin we're talking about. Putin.

[KateAggie]

In somewhat weird timing, just yesterday CNN had an article linked on their front page about TWA 800. No conspiracy, just eerie.

[IIOY]

Jul 17, 2014 12:56:33 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

If the plane was shot down by separatists I'm wondering how this is going to play out now. I can't imagine that either side will want to be associated with them.

I mentioned this upthread but if it was separatists, this probably spells the end of their efforts, at least in such a brazen fashion, because worldwide condemnation will be swift and strong.

As for Putin, he could go one of two ways: use this to fully withdraw public support of separatists, while possibly supporting them covertly, or simply blame Ukraine and carry on.

My guess, based upon nothing more than a gut feeling, is that even he is not stupid enough to try to blame Ukraine if all evidence says otherwise, and that he will use this to pull back, at least publicly, on support of separatists. He already gave the appearance of pulling back in recent weeks, although whether it was a facade has been debated.

I'm on the go and not following news reports, so if I'm wrong and Putin is already throwing a parade to celebrate all of this, someone please let me know.

[Velar Fricative]

I'm checking BBC's coverage and there is a photo of the plane posted just as it took off from Amsterdam.

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 13:07:40 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

In somewhat weird timing, just yesterday CNN had an article linked on their front page about TWA 800. No conspiracy, just eerie.

The anniversary was either yesterday or today. I remember it was mid-July.

[NewOrleans]

Yeah, this falls squarely on Russia either way, separatists or government. Moscow has been fueling and firing up Ukrainian separatists all year, putting all kinds of shit in their hands.

Lookie what you wrought, Putin, you tiger-straddling, warmongering fuck.

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 13:07:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I'm checking BBC's coverage and there is a photo of the plane posted just as it took off from Amsterdam.

/photo/1

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 13:07:42 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:56:33 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

If the plane was shot down by separatists I'm wondering how this is going to play out now. I can't imagine that either side will want to be associated with them.

I mentioned this upthread but if it was separatists, this probably spells the end of their efforts, at least in such a brazen fashion, because worldwide condemnation will be swift and strong.

As for Putin, he could go one of two ways: use this to fully withdraw public support of separatists, while possibly supporting them covertly, or simply blame Ukraine and carry on.

My guess, based upon nothing more than a gut feeling, is that even he is not stupid enough to try to blame Ukraine if all evidence says otherwise, and that he will use this to pull back, at least publicly, on support of separatists. He already gave the appearance of pulling back in recent weeks, although whether it was a facade has been debated.

I'm on the go and not following news reports, so if I'm wrong and Putin is already throwing a parade to celebrate all of this, someone please let me know.

Bingo. He'll distance himself from the separatists publicly. I'd be shocked if he didn't.

[karinothing]

Why are all these pictures of the plane just random folks wandering around on the plane. Shouldn't there be government officials? Investigators?

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:06 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:07:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I'm checking BBC's coverage and there is a photo of the plane posted just as it took off from Amsterdam.

/photo/1

WHAAAAAT

No, I refuse to believe this post existed.

[Knight]

A tweet (in Russian) from a key Twitter account used by pro-Russian separatists, in which they claim to have captured a Buk surface-to-air missile system, has now been deleted, BBC Monitoring observes. Ukrainians say the Malaysian plane could have been downed with a Buk, but pro-Russian rebels have now denied they have it.

[rugbywife]

I am the cottage and shouldn't be spending all my data on this! I just really want to know 'who did it', even though I feel like it will take a while to figure out who.

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:06 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:07:58 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I'm checking BBC's coverage and there is a photo of the plane posted just as it took off from Amsterdam.

/photo/1

Omg. That makes me feel so sick and blah

[Velar Fricative]

Actually, ttt - I just went to that Facebook page and the post actually does exist (although Bing is giving me a laughably awful translation of it). It has 3,000+ shares already.

[heyjude]

Jul 17, 2014 13:10:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:06 GMT -5 ttt said:

/photo/1

WHAAAAAT

No, I refuse to believe this post existed.

To be fair, it's kinda funny given he was flying on Malaysian Airlines. I'm sure he is not the first to post something like this since the missing plane.

[wanderlustfoodie]

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:28 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Why are all these pictures of the plane just random folks wandering around on the plane. Shouldn't there be government officials? Investigators?

I don't think they can get there that quickly relative to the locals who live close to the debris, which is scattered over a large area. Plus I'd be shocked if the separatists let investigators close. It will be interesting to see which country takes the lead for the investigation given how many countries are involved and affected.

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:28 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Why are all these pictures of the plane just random folks wandering around on the plane. Shouldn't there be government officials? Investigators?

I don't get the impression Eastern Ukraine is real big on proper investigation procedures right now. 

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 13:16:21 GMT -5 wanderlustfoodie said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:09:28 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Why are all these pictures of the plane just random folks wandering around on the plane. Shouldn't there be government officials? Investigators?

I don't think they can get there that quickly relative to the locals who live close to the debris, which is scattered over a large area. Plus I'd be shocked if the separatists let investigators close. It will be interesting to see which country takes the lead for the investigation given how many countries are involved and affected.

They better just decide to put Switzerland in charge of the investigation or something.

And yeah, if this is some rural field than I would expect local residents to get there first and wander around, especially in a rural area that is very anti-government.

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 13:14:23 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:10:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

WHAAAAAT

No, I refuse to believe this post existed.

To be fair, it's kinda funny given he was flying on Malaysian Airlines. I'm sure he is not the first to post something like this since the missing plane.

Probably not. But still... :?

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 13:14:23 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:10:15 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

WHAAAAAT

No, I refuse to believe this post existed.

To be fair, it's kinda funny given he was flying on Malaysian Airlines. I'm sure he is not the first to post something like this since the missing plane.

For some bizarre reason, the way I first read it made it seem like he was planning to hijack the plane or something. MH370 didn't even enter my mind until I saw the post on FB and thought, "Oh, duh."

Still sad and I am never going to make these kinds of jokes when I fly anymore.