Update on page 14 - Another Malaysia Airlines 777 crashed???

[snowflurry]

Jul 17, 2014 11:10:16 GMT -5 v said:

Jul 17, 2014 10:58:22 GMT -5 Cicero said:

The KLM AMS-KLIA flight? KLM and Malaysian Airlines code share that route. It's entirely possible it has a MA flight number but is on a KLM plane.

It is probably this flight, right?

info.flightmapper.net/flight/KLM_KL_4103

Operated by Malaysian

If that is the flight pattern, how the heck did it end up at the Russian border unless foul play was involved?

ETA:  never mind, I saw a depiction of the flight path on another site and can see how close it actually does fly to the Ukraine/Russian

[iammalcolmx]

Shall I assume all commercial airliners in the area are diverting like a Motherfucker?

[CloudBee]

Jul 17, 2014 12:19:51 GMT -5 snowflurry said:

Jul 17, 2014 11:10:16 GMT -5 v said:

It is probably this flight, right?

info.flightmapper.net/flight/KLM_KL_4103

Operated by Malaysian

If that is the flight pattern, how the heck did it end up at the Russian border unless foul play was involved?

ETA:  never mind, I saw a depiction of the flight path on another site and can see how close it actually does fly to the Ukraine/Russian

Planes don't travel in a straight line like that.  They definitely would have arched north.  This map is just showing point A to point B.

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2014 12:20:56 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Shall I assume all commercial airliners in the area are diverting like a Motherfucker?

I saw a screen shot of a flight tracker that showed every plane in the region diverting away from Ukraine

[pixy0stix]

Jul 17, 2014 12:20:56 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Shall I assume all commercial airliners in the area are diverting like a Motherfucker?

I would certainly hope so.

[Deleted]

So is it clear that it was shot down, and now its a matter of who/why, or is it still to be determined whether it was actually shot down?

WSJ is quoting the Ukraine president as saying that they cant rule out that the plane was shot down, which does not sound definitive to me.

[iammalcolmx]

Jul 17, 2014 12:23:19 GMT -5 @missusbee said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:20:56 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Shall I assume all commercial airliners in the area are diverting like a Motherfucker?

I saw a screen shot of a flight tracker that showed every plane in the region diverting away from Ukraine

Where did you see this? How interesting and relieving as well.

[wanderlustfoodie]

Jul 17, 2014 12:20:56 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Shall I assume all commercial airliners in the area are diverting like a Motherfucker?

Yeah, I've read that many airlines (Virgin, Turkish-which I just flew 3 days ago, Lufthansa, etc.) will all reroute to avoid flying over that area. It is not uncommon for planes to fly over war areas (Syria, Afghanistan, Iraz, etc.) though now in light of this it is obvious why they would want to reroute.

Times like these make me thankful I'm not on twitter because I don't think I could stomach graphic pictures...so so sad.

[wanderlustfoodie]

Jul 17, 2014 12:25:01 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:23:19 GMT -5 @missusbee said:

I saw a screen shot of a flight tracker that showed every plane in the region diverting away from Ukraine

Where did you see this? How interesting and relieving as well.

flightradar24.com/

[Vespasia]

H just text me suggesting I change my flight to Prague via Moscow in September. I told him I had travel insurance in case of WWIII.

[iammalcolmx]

Jul 17, 2014 12:27:13 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

H just text me suggesting I change my flight to Prague via Moscow in September. I told him I had travel insurance in case of WWIII.

I want you to change too

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 12:27:13 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

H just text me suggesting I change my flight to Prague via Moscow in September. I told him I had travel insurance in case of WWIII.

That is quite the route! But I say go to Prague however you can go because it's awesome.

[Deleted]

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

[Bad Dingo]

Jul 17, 2014 11:02:08 GMT -5 karinothing said:

It was listed as a shoot down incident on wiki but it is already gone. That seemed a little presumptious.

While I think shooting down a commercial airline is horrible. It has happened a number of times in our history (both by Russia and the Ukraine, neither of which started a war).

Also by the US - Iran Air Flight 655.

[annieblah]

A pilot this AM said he noticed ground activity earlier today. I guess noted before this happened? (CNN)

More airlines changing to not fly over Ukraine airspace.

[IIOY]

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

My guess is that this was a mistake and the people who fired upon the plane thought it was something other than civilian.

ETA: this is also why I think this was the work of separatists.

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

At this point if separatists shot the plane down I would bet my life savings they shot down the wrong plane.

[annieblah]

Black box found 60 KM from Russian border.

Separatists preventing Ukraine investigators to get close. Ugh

[Deleted]

Thanks Velar Fricative and IIOY. That's my thought too. I didn't know if there might be another reason I was missing.

[ringstrue]

Jul 17, 2014 12:38:39 GMT -5 annieblah said:

Black box found 60 KM from Russian border.

Separatists preventing Ukraine investigators to get close. Ugh

Nice. Not that there is an feelings of guilt there or anything. 

[CloudBee]

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

My guess is that it was a terrible, terrible mistake, and there was no intention to shoot down a commuter plane.

[pixy0stix]

As with all other breaking events, you guys are better than any other news source at pulling everything together.

[ttt]

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

Donetsk commander Strelkov, longtime Russian agent, claimed credit today for shooting plane he thought was Ukrainian pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg
 

[ringstrue]

Jul 17, 2014 12:36:34 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

My guess is that this was a mistake and the people who fired upon the plane thought it was something other than civilian.

ETA: this is also why I think this was the work of separatists.

a few reports on TV were saying the passenger plane should have been high up - like 30,000 feet and only a fighter jet could have reached that high not a ground missile? 

[ttt]

Here's the live Reuters feed:
live.reuters.com/Event/World_News

All major airlines are diverting away from Eastern Ukranian airspace.

[Deleted]

23 US citizens dead?

[heyjude]

Jul 17, 2014 12:44:03 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:33:40 GMT -5 @silver said:

This is a naive question, but what would the benefit be to either side for doing this?

The separatists aren't going to improve public opinion by shooting down passenger flights and I frankly don't understand at all why either the Russian or Ukranian government would think it was a smart move.  Unless they can prove that there was a terrorist hijacking this seems like a no win situation for anyone who did it.

Donetsk commander Strelkov, longtime Russian agent, claimed credit today for shooting plane he thought was Ukrainian pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswg7UGCQAAtv47.jpg
 

This seems to be what CNN is speculating (or Fahreed Zahkarya (or whatever his name is)).

[Cicero]

Jul 17, 2014 12:45:07 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

Jul 17, 2014 12:36:34 GMT -5 IIOY said:

My guess is that this was a mistake and the people who fired upon the plane thought it was something other than civilian.

ETA: this is also why I think this was the work of separatists.

a few reports on TV were saying the passenger plane should have been high up - like 30,000 feet and only a fighter jet could have reached that high not a ground missile? 

I read that the type of system that is being alleged can shoot down things flying as high as 70,000 feet.

[annieblah]

Believe it was a truck mounted missle. Ugh.

Russian separatists claimed (few weeks back) that they captured such a truck weapon.

[iammalcolmx]

Ok so were the airlines warned to stay out of this airspace?