Update on page 14 - Another Malaysia Airlines 777 crashed???

[summer]

Jul 17, 2014 14:03:32 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

OK this may have already been asked but I am beside myself here. Who besides a government has the capability to blow an aircraft out of the air at 30-fucking-thousand feet???

Separatists who get equipment from governments?  Separatists who take leftover equipment from governments when they take over their land?

[pixy0stix]

Jul 17, 2014 14:06:44 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Has CNN brought up aliens as a possibility yet?

No rocket trail means it's ALIENS!

[snowflurry]

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

I think the "taking stuff" is normal. It might not be to "keep it" it might be just to take care of it until something else is decided by police or whoever to asks for things from the crash. I remember hearing similar things from US plane crashes. If stuff is in your yard, neighborhood, etc., making a mess you feel a need to clean it up.

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

I think there is a big difference in the way Americans and Ukrainians handle these types of situations.

[ttt]

Airlines are hightailing the hell out of that airspace: 

[MarmeeNoir]

Jul 17, 2014 14:08:13 GMT -5 snowflurry said:

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

I think there is a big difference in the way Americans and Ukrainians handle these types of situations.

My sister would go look.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 17, 2014 14:10:50 GMT -5 toledo said:

I'm sorry; I'm sure some of you aren't starting to suggest that Americans are in some way more civilized than Ukrainians, are you?

No, I'm just saying that cultures are different. I'm not saying one is right nor wrong, they just deal with things differently.

[ttt]

I really don't know anything about Ukrainian culture - can someone elaborate?

[iammalcolmx]

Jul 17, 2014 14:10:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

Airlines are hightailing the hell out of that airspace: 

Where did you get that image?

[Cicero]

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

I think the "taking stuff" is normal. It might not be to "keep it" it might be just to take care of it until something else is decided by police or whoever to asks for things from the crash. I remember hearing similar things from US plane crashes. If stuff is in your yard, neighborhood, etc., making a mess you feel a need to clean it up.

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

A US plane carrying a bunch of Vietnamese orphans went down outside of HCMC during the last year of the war. The only reason the military was able to piece together what happened is because they bought back pieces of he plane from the locals who had scavenged the site.

[heyjude]

Why are people thinking people are taking stuff anyway? Where did that fact come from?

[ringstrue]

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

I think the "taking stuff" is normal. It might not be to "keep it" it might be just to take care of it until something else is decided by police or whoever to asks for things from the crash. I remember hearing similar things from US plane crashes. If stuff is in your yard, neighborhood, etc., making a mess you feel a need to clean it up.

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

See I still see that as the same thing. I can't very well "guard" some paperwork blowing around - it'd be best to bring it inside. Don't get me wrong they could be looting or hiding it too or whatever but then again those people have a different relationship with their govt. than Texas does with the National Guard, kwim?


 

[Michelle]

Jul 17, 2014 14:15:47 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

A US plane carrying a bunch of Vietnamese orphans went down outside of HCMC during the last year of the war. The only reason the military was able to piece together what happened is because they bought back pieces of he plane from the locals who had scavenged the site.

Interesting.

[notsocreepylurker]

How long until Fox News blames Obama for this?



(sorry - I deal with tragedy with deflection and inappropriate jokes).



Also, can I join some of ya'll in your bunkers? I'll bring Chocodiles.

[Michelle]

Jul 17, 2014 14:19:02 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Why are people thinking people are taking stuff anyway? Where did that fact come from?

pictures of locals in Capri pants or lounge capris or something standing on the side of the plane wreckage grabbing stuff.

[cattledogkisses]

I'm sure Russia will be totally transparent in their investigation. *snort*

If they get the black boxes no one will ever see them again.

[downtoearth]

I can't find it now, but a couple pages back did somebody here say that a military plane was in the same area at the time? Is this like a mistaken identity thing or do you think the military plane was using the flight path of the commercial flight to help provide cover?

That is straight-up wrong if a Ukraine military plane was covertly using a commercial plane as cover. That doesn't really happen, right?

[Deleted]

I am still confused why people think that the Urkrainian people are out looting the crash site.

[Knight]

Jul 17, 2014 14:25:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I can't find it now, but a couple pages back did somebody here say that a military plane was in the same area at the time? Is this like a mistaken identity thing or do you think the military plane was using the flight path of the commercial flight to help provide cover?

That is straight-up wrong if a Ukraine military plane was covertly using a commercial plane as cover. That doesn't really happen, right?

It's possibly a coincidence. CNN said the plane was off its usual path due to weather.

[Deleted]

Russia should really have nothing to do with any of this. The debris field is in the Ukraine, a Malaysian plane full of mostly Dutch citizens I imagine.

Puty needs to back the fuck up

[karinothing]

Jul 17, 2014 14:28:39 GMT -5 @amoosed said:

I am still confused why people think that the Urkrainian people are out looting the crash site.

I think it is a natural assumption to assume if you have civilians walking around an event like this stuff will get stolen. Be they American or Urkrainian. Hence the need for perimeters and policing!

[niemand88f]

Jul 17, 2014 14:28:39 GMT -5 @amoosed said:

I am still confused why people think that the Urkrainian people are out looting the crash site.

I think pictures like this, although this is the only one I've actually seen of people in non-uniforms near the plane.

SPOILER: Click to show

[Cicero]

Jul 17, 2014 14:28:39 GMT -5 @amoosed said:

I am still confused why people think that the Urkrainian people are out looting the crash site.

the Ukranian government has stated that their recovery efforts are being impeded by armed separatists who won't let them onto the site. I assume it's stemming from that.

[CloudBee]

Jul 17, 2014 14:01:50 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jul 17, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5 ringstrue said:

I think the "taking stuff" is normal. It might not be to "keep it" it might be just to take care of it until something else is decided by police or whoever to asks for things from the crash. I remember hearing similar things from US plane crashes. If stuff is in your yard, neighborhood, etc., making a mess you feel a need to clean it up.

Yeah I don't know.  Maybe debris that is spread everywhere, but not the actual crash site.  what about respect for the charred dead bodies laying there and investigators who need to see how everything landed to determine the cause?

There was a chunk of Columbia in my in-law's yard in Nacogdoches, TX and people guarded it until the national guard could get there, and they guarded it for over 24 hours until a forensic team could get it.  Do we revere shuttles more than planes? 

No. The Ukraine does not have the luxury of a peaceful National Guard available to run to these situations in an organized manner.  In an area that does not have civil peace, there are no norms, and no expectations.  Debris from riots and uprisings is the norm in their recent history, and the citizens have often been the ones to "clean the streets".  In Crimea earlier this year they showed thousands of citizens on their knees scrubbing soot from fires on their own accord.

This is no different.  They're not used to seeing forensic teams and protecting items for investigation, because there rarely IS an investigation of such acts.

[pixy0stix]

I wondered what toledo was going to wag her finger at, guess I can stop wondering.

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 14:27:15 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Jul 17, 2014 14:14:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

I really don't know anything about Ukrainian culture - can someone elaborate?

Ukrainians are shady as fuck.

[elleblue]

Jul 17, 2014 14:15:24 GMT -5 swank said:

Jul 17, 2014 14:10:50 GMT -5 toledo said:

I'm sorry; I'm sure some of you aren't starting to suggest that Americans are in some way more civilized than Ukrainians, are you?

Looting for diapers will get you mad coin, yo. ^o) 

But in all seriousness, I think it's possible that the investigation and cleanup efforts are fairly disorganized at this point, given the remote location. Disorganization =/= looting however and anyone making that leap is being a tad bit ridiculous. 

[karinothing]

Doesn't the US usually send out their crash team investigators for stuff like this? Even when it happens in other countries. I thought they did for the missing plane and for the Air France crash. I wonder if they are going to do that here (obviously it takes a while to send out people).

[CloudBee]

Jul 17, 2014 14:28:39 GMT -5 @amoosed said:

I am still confused why people think that the Urkrainian people are out looting the crash site.

I haven't read accounts of this, but there are many photographs of locals moving around pieces of debris that's obviously not shielding possible survivors.  I found it strange to see what appeared to be teens and parents standing on top of wings, and men picking at the fuselage.

[wanderlustfoodie]

Jul 17, 2014 14:25:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I can't find it now, but a couple pages back did somebody here say that a military plane was in the same area at the time? Is this like a mistaken identity thing or do you think the military plane was using the flight path of the commercial flight to help provide cover?

That is straight-up wrong if a Ukraine military plane was covertly using a commercial plane as cover. That doesn't really happen, right?

That was something I said, and I don't really know that the assumption was that the military plane was using a commercial plane as cover so much as there are just a lot of planes in the area in a particular area at any given moment. Reports were that there were at least two other commercial planes within 20 or so kilometers of the Malaysia one when it went down.

I think the point was that they thought they were aiming for the military plane but instead got the Malaysia one, since I'm guessing it would be pretty difficult to distinguish one from the other from 30,000 feet below.

ETA: Per the BBC, Ukraine is saying there were no military jets in the area at the time, but who knows if they're just saying that to make it seem like even more of an atrocity at the hands of the separatists: Ukraine's Defence Ministry has said that no Ukrainian fighter jets were in the air in the area where the Malaysian plane was shot down.

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 17, 2014 14:39:18 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Doesn't the US usually send out their crash team investigators for stuff like this? Even when it happens in other countries. I thought they did for the missing plane and for the Air France crash. I wonder if they are going to do that here (obviously it takes a while to send out people).

I always assumed they were invited to help investigate. Or maybe if it involves a Boeing, they automatically investigate (and likewise, maybe France investigates all Airbus crashes no matter where they occur). Or maybe we're just barging into other countries' affairs, I don't know. Wouldn't be the first time.