Is cotton offensive to black people?

[cookiemdough]

Well taking your ball and going home doesn't help anything.

[iammalcolmx]

Dec 11, 2014 12:04:02 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Dec 11, 2014 10:36:40 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

You mean in Grant Park? What do you have against Grant Park?   For the record I wouldn't live on Confederate because it's too busy of a street.

I don't have anything against Grant Park, which is why I get alerts for the neighborhood. I don't like that side of the park, though.

Oh OK, I was getting offended, LOL!!

[iammalcolmx]

Dec 11, 2014 12:37:03 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Dec 11, 2014 12:19:27 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

1. No, I'm saying it is offensive but I just let it go.  Move on with your day.  Why would I let some old lady get my panties in a twist? 

2. I also was not putting out bales of cotton, nor have I ever seen this type of display.  The only time I remember anyone in my community getting pissed off about a display is when we got Victoria's Secret in the mall about 12 years ago and the mannequins displayed underwear for all the children to see (the horror!!!).  So you can tell the type of small town I'm living in.  Like I said, my experience is not yours but I'm sure my complaint to my manager about a cotton display would have been shut down.  I'm sure this would not be uncommon in small town America. 

3. Of course she can say she's offended.  I fielded many complaints, legitimate and ridiculous when I worked retail.  I think it's the wording she used, the "taking aside".  It feels condescending to me.  You take aside someone to reprimand them, which is not the appropriate tone for the situation in my opinion.  I think that's what's tripping me up here.  Of course it could have played out much differently in real life but the way it's written just feels off.

You know what else is condescending? You bringing your ass in here telling black folk what they should and shouldn't feel because your ass doesn't feel it. Now, I was nice. I gave very reasoned, non-snark filled responses to you and the person before. But, I'm done with you right now.

Black folks have their panties in a twist about a nation that systematically DENIED them equal rights? That they are reminded by raggedy ass people who think being PC is an affront to humanity about how they were once mocked and sold, beat whipped and raped? All in the name of cotton, sugar cane, rice, and tobacco so that someone else could be wealthy. I'm tired of people like you running around like I should be sitting around overlooking the fact that some shit happened to people who look like me and oh it was many moons ago. NO. Not when I can recite stories from my great-great grandparents about the things they endured. Not when statistics come out everyday about how black kids are disproportionately disciplined vs. their white peers for the same crime. Not when this nation won't even say "Oh shit WE STILL OVA HERE FUCKING UP." 

So what you NOT GONE DO is come up in here talking bout folks got their panties and a twist acting like you are the authority on all things black. Take your narrow ass over there and SAT DOWN. Grown folks are talking. 

[gottadobe]

Dec 11, 2014 12:49:27 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

If you guys don't want me to post again, that's fine. I'll take my ball home. I feel like a little league kid that called up the big leagues by posting with you guys.
I feel like you are all thinking very big picture and I'm thinking small. If you feel I'm condescending or I'm trying to act like an authority on all thing black (??), I'm sorry and that was not my intention at all. I was only trying to relate my hellish days of retail to this article and obviously, failed miserably.

No.  Stay and LEARN.

[iammalcolmx]

Dec 11, 2014 12:49:27 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

If you guys don't want me to post again, that's fine. I'll take my ball home. I feel like a little league kid that called up the big leagues by posting with you guys.
I feel like you are all thinking very big picture and I'm thinking small. If you feel I'm condescending or I'm trying to act like an authority on all thing black (??), I'm sorry and that was not my intention at all. I was only trying to relate my hellish days of retail to this article and obviously, failed miserably.

Scroll back see what teengirlsquad post, how we reacted, how she reacted, and how it was settled. Look we have all been there, this is a political message board, stuff is going to get heated. We are all here to talk things out and learn different perspectives.

[mrsbro]

Dec 11, 2014 12:49:27 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

If you guys don't want me to post again, that's fine. I'll take my ball home. I feel like a little league kid that called up the big leagues by posting with you guys.
I feel like you are all thinking very big picture and I'm thinking small. If you feel I'm condescending or I'm trying to act like an authority on all thing black (??), I'm sorry and that was not my intention at all. I was only trying to relate my hellish days of retail to this article and obviously, failed miserably.

No. As someone who rarely posts I implore you to stay. This board, and all of it's members, are damn amazing. What you need to do is take a moment and reflect on the insight you have received in this post. Reflect, attempt to understand what they are telling you, and act accordingly. 

[00janelane00]

I don't have time to read all the responses, I see that I have many and I appreciate the feedback. This may be telling me that I don't have the time that I want to post here during the day.
I didn't read all the responses before I originally posted and didn't give my posts as much thought as I wanted to. I merely posted a response based on my own experiences (very selfish I know, but all I had time to reflect upon). So tonight I'll look through this thread and consider if I have the time to truly participate otherwise I might just fall back into the shadows. I'm not trying to intentionally stir up shit, I promise.

[sandsonik]

CEP has officially jumped the shark and crawled up its own butt, all in one thread.

[emilyj]

I'm way late, but this isn't the first time Brooks Brothers has had a cotton display like this. I was at a conference in Memphis in 2010. I was with two of my classmates (black) and when we walked by the store and saw the display, they were PISSED. They were nice enough to explain why to me, which I appreciated. Point being, BB apparently has a history of these cotton displays.

[AJL]

[iammalcolmx]

Dec 11, 2014 14:15:40 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

CEP has officially jumped the shark and crawled up its own butt, all in one thread.

How so?

[gpw]

Welp. At least NitaX had the courtesy to tell me some shit was happening in here. Clearly she is the only one who loves me. (Nita, you still don't get the green jacket, sorrynotsorry)

[NitaX]

Dec 11, 2014 15:06:17 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Dec 11, 2014 14:15:40 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

CEP has officially jumped the shark and crawled up its own butt, all in one thread.

How so?

Because we bothered to explain how it's not a leap to be offended. We shouldn't be offended or bother to explain these reactions. Nor is further discussion warranted EVEN THOUGH we had a discussion two days ago about the PR FAIL that is Strange Fruit. Nor are Black Folk allowed to get pissy when folks basically say you should get over it. 

That's all I got.

[NitaX]

Dec 11, 2014 14:37:22 GMT -5 emilyj said:

I'm way late, but this isn't the first time Brooks Brothers has had a cotton display like this. I was at a conference in Memphis in 2010. I was with two of my classmates (black) and when we walked by the store and saw the display, they were PISSED. They were nice enough to explain why to me, which I appreciated. Point being, BB apparently has a history of these cotton displays.

Reason #2 of why I won't shop there. But, they closed that store down in the mall anyway. There's only one locally now. 

[summer]

Dec 11, 2014 15:50:02 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

When do I stop having to get over stuff and turn the other cheek and move on? What day will that be, tell me so I'll know and be ready.

I sideeyed Obama the other day when he said folks need to be patient with race relations.  I kept thinking, "I know you know that Martin spoke about this waiting issue already.  Quit playing."

[josieposy]

OMG I just realized I may be an unwitting asshole.

I can't remember the last time I said "cotton pickin' mind" but I know I have. I feel like a complete idiot for never making that connection.

And to make it worse I can't get that damn "the fabric of our lives" shit out of my head now.

[msmerymac]

Dec 11, 2014 16:03:29 GMT -5 josieposy said:

OMG I just realized I may be an unwitting asshole.

I can't remember the last time I said "cotton pickin' mind" but I know I have. I feel like a complete idiot for never making that connection.

And to make it worse I can't get that damn "the fabric of our lives" shit out of my head now.

But Aaron Neville tho!

[00janelane00]

I had a moment to catch up...
I'm pretty sheltered if you haven't gathered that by now. For starters I don't think I would associate a raw cotton display with slavery. So assuming Helen is white and also has a similar background I can see how she would have thought nothing of this display. The writer enters the store and says "not today!" and tells her the connection. I still say this doesn't sit well with me. Not in a how dare she kind of way but in a sales associates is busy working kind of way. I'm not talking about race here. This is where I lost you guys because you were talking about race and I wasn't which was dumb because it was the point of the article. Again, I was just trying to relate to the material in a hurry.
I mentioned I would not have taken down the display down because back then I would not have understood the connection between cotton and slavery and I was not in the position to do so. Even now how could I really relate to it? Would I advocate for it today? Yes. Would I then? No, I was a broke high school and college student that needed that job to pay my bills and a cotton display wasn't something on my radar. I don't know if that cleared things up or made things worse but hopefully I was a little more clear now that I had a chance to read more of the thread and had a bit more time to respond.

Also, there are weddings held on plantations with cotton as decoration? Wtf? Even I give that the side eye.

I would love to stick around and post if I can keep up with you guys. I'm sure I don't have the same opinions as everyone but I do love the diversity of this forum and I know I have a lot to learn.

[spaghettisquash]

Are there any books, articles etc that you all recommend to learn more about African American history? I grew up in a bubble and I've been trying over the past few years to learn. I've read the Coates article and Zinn's Peoples History of America. Thanks!

[pixy0stix]

If you never say anything because it *might* inconvience someone, then nothing will ever change. Find your voice and use it.

[cookiemdough]

Dec 11, 2014 16:45:23 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

I had a moment to catch up...
I'm pretty sheltered if you haven't gathered that by now. For starters I don't think I would associate a raw cotton display with slavery. So assuming Helen is white and also has a similar background I can see how she would have thought nothing of this display. The writer enters the store and says "not today!" and tells her the connection. I still say this doesn't sit well with me. Not in a how dare she kind of way but in a sales associates is busy working kind of way.
.

But this is the part where I am confused...the whole "I am busy working kind of way". Part of the job is customer service. I am failing to see how this is something not worthy of a complaint but all the other stuff people gripe about in a store somehow is.

[vanlatte]

Dec 11, 2014 12:33:11 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

I'm busy at work and I don't want to let this slip through the cracks, sometimes I have a hard time expressing my point and I feel rushed right now.
I'm not trying to say that me as a white person being mistaken as help is the same as a black person being mistaken as help. Absolutely not. Do I get offended/annoyed? Yes. Is it the same? No. I know the history there and I understand the difference.
My main problem with this piece was the author's treatment with the staff at a store she frequents, it seemed hypocritical to me. But that's how I read it and maybe I read her tone wrong. Like I said, I worked retail so I'm sensitive to how shoppers treat sales associates, and usually that treatment is crappy. But that's not what the article is about, it's about how offensive cotton is and how the writer thinks it's a symbol of oppression so I'll leave it at that. I just picked up on that inconsistency and it bugged me.

No, you're not getting the point at all. It's not that the writer THINKS it's a symbol of oppression, it actually IS a symbol of oppression, which makes it a despicable marketing ploy.

[00janelane00]

Dec 11, 2014 18:00:09 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Dec 11, 2014 16:45:23 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

I had a moment to catch up...
I'm pretty sheltered if you haven't gathered that by now. For starters I don't think I would associate a raw cotton display with slavery. So assuming Helen is white and also has a similar background I can see how she would have thought nothing of this display. The writer enters the store and says "not today!" and tells her the connection. I still say this doesn't sit well with me. Not in a how dare she kind of way but in a sales associates is busy working kind of way.
.

But this is the part where I am confused...the whole "I am busy working kind of way". Part of the job is customer service. I am failing to see how this is something not worthy of a complaint but all the other stuff people gripe about in a store somehow is.

Yes, customers complain all the time to retail workers for everything from the store smells, the prices are too high or the return policy is wrong.  All complaints I heard, among others.  If the writer wanted to change the stores display I think she should have contacted corporate (which she did with other stores) or if she wanted to engage with Helen on a personal level she should do it off the clock.  Trying to have a meaningful conversation with someone that is paid to listen to your complaints feels like playing tennis with a brick wall.

[gpw]

Dec 11, 2014 15:50:02 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

When do I stop having to get over stuff and turn the other cheek and move on? What day will that be, tell me so I'll know and be ready.

6 years ago.  

[gpw]

Seriously, though. I will admit to my white girl privilege. If I saw a display with raw cotton it would not occur to me that it was offensive (which is but one of the reasons I love this board. I am learning), but I am loling at other people, who aren't black, telling black people how they should feel, that it's no big deal, and that some of the things mentioned in the article happen to everyone so get over it. THAT is offensive. Someone tells you how they feel, you don't say "that's stupid" -- which is in essence what has been said here.

[NitaX]

Dec 11, 2014 17:01:36 GMT -5 spaghettisquash said:

Are there any books, articles etc that you all recommend to learn more about African American history? I grew up in a bubble and I've been trying over the past few years to learn. I've read the Coates article and Zinn's Peoples History of America. Thanks!

Slavery by Another Name highlights the issues around black men being arrested without cause in order to do labor. There is a PBS Special on it.

Another good PBS broadcast was The African Americans which was done by Henry Louis Gates.

Classic documentary Eyes of the Prize defines my childhood. You couldn't have MLK day out of school and not watch it.

[epphd]

Dec 11, 2014 19:19:02 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Dec 11, 2014 17:01:36 GMT -5 spaghettisquash said:

Are there any books, articles etc that you all recommend to learn more about African American history? I grew up in a bubble and I've been trying over the past few years to learn. I've read the Coates article and Zinn's Peoples History of America. Thanks!

Slavery by Another Name highlights the issues around black men being arrested without cause in order to do labor. There is a PBS Special on it.

Another good PBS broadcast was The African Americans which was done by Henry Louis Gates.

Classic documentary Eyes of the Prize defines my childhood. You couldn't have MLK day out of school and not watch it.

That program was ah.mazing. Thanks for the other recs too.

[katfco]

Dec 11, 2014 16:45:23 GMT -5 00janelane00 said:

I had a moment to catch up...
I'm pretty sheltered if you haven't gathered that by now. For starters I don't think I would associate a raw cotton display with slavery. So assuming Helen is white and also has a similar background I can see how she would have thought nothing of this display. The writer enters the store and says "not today!" and tells her the connection. I still say this doesn't sit well with me. Not in a how dare she kind of way but in a sales associates is busy working kind of way. I'm not talking about race here. This is where I lost you guys because you were talking about race and I wasn't which was dumb because it was the point of the article. Again, I was just trying to relate to the material in a hurry.
I mentioned I would not have taken down the display down because back then I would not have understood the connection between cotton and slavery and I was not in the position to do so. Even now how could I really relate to it? Would I advocate for it today? Yes. Would I then? No, I was a broke high school and college student that needed that job to pay my bills and a cotton display wasn't something on my radar. I don't know if that cleared things up or made things worse but hopefully I was a little more clear now that I had a chance to read more of the thread and had a bit more time to respond.

Also, there are weddings held on plantations with cotton as decoration? Wtf? Even I give that the side eye.

I would love to stick around and post if I can keep up with you guys. I'm sure I don't have the same opinions as everyone but I do love the diversity of this forum and I know I have a lot to learn.

So can I ask--if the store had posted a display that had an offensive word in it that maybe not everyone knew was offensive, would you have said, "Hey, did you know that is an offensive term that's probably bothering a lot of people?" Or would you have just shrugged and said, "I'll contact corporate to make sure they all know this word is offensive to a significant portion of the population. 

[josieposy]

Dec 11, 2014 19:08:17 GMT -5 gpw said:

Seriously, though. I will admit to my white girl privilege. If I saw a display with raw cotton it would not occur to me that it was offensive (which is but one of the reasons I love this board. I am learning),

Yep. Everyday we learn something new. It's pretty cool, even though I had to admit I've been a nitwit.

[tacosforlife]

Dec 11, 2014 12:37:19 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I'm not black, but I'm going to guess that black people get pretty sick and tired of having to "just brush it off" all the time. Telling them that they should just move along like its NBD comes across as a little condescending, and a lot privileged.

How much have we talked about catcalling on this board?

That seems like an analogy that even the whitest and most sheltered person can relate to. Men may occasionally get unwanted comments when out in public (seriously, someone told my husband to put on a jacket the other day because he was doing yard work in chilly weather in a t-shirt), it doesn't mean she should tell women to just "brush it off."

I have been mistaken for a sales associate before. I also get asked directions a lot. Tourists around the Capitol flock to me like a moth to a flame to take their pictures. I don't know, my white, round face must look helpful (LOL, right?!). But it's not that hard to understand that it's different than the assumption that black and Latina women are "the help."