Is cotton offensive to black people?

[teflepi]

Dec 15, 2014 14:12:55 GMT -5 ttt said:

By the way, the "No Irish Need Apply" thing was a myth.

::runs away::

What?!??!!!?!!? I can't join the suffering?

[teengirlsquad]

Dec 15, 2014 23:39:04 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dec 15, 2014 23:31:26 GMT -5 teengirlsquad said:

I actually didn't know and I can't keep up with this post. I'm trying. And failing.

Eh, I was calling them cotton balls.  Out of all the shit posted in here, this is the least ignorant, lol.  Not to worry.

toledo, spokoino.  Don't skeer our lurkers. We even have @soudesafinado speaking in motherly tones to coax them out. (Then we will capture them and put them in our groupthink bag which is made of non-Uzbek cotton).

Thanks. At first I thought it was a typo and then I kept seeing it and was like wait have I been saying this wrong forever. But I i realize - two different things. Got it.
Also your post a while back about Eli Wiesel was incredibly enlightening. It really helped me continue to sort out this issue.

[ttt]

Dec 15, 2014 23:16:38 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

Dec 15, 2014 20:29:51 GMT -5 flgirl said:

And there is the problem. The thought that one group suffered more or less then another group. I don't think blacks have the only claim to that. So I guess 1 million dead and 1 million emigrants from the potato famine just don't make the cut. Every ethnic, racial, religious group can be offended by something and we should understand and empathize.  At least I do.

Black PEOPLE.  THEY ARE PEOPLE. LIKE YOU.  LIKE ME.  PEOPLE.

 PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.PEOPLE.

Actually it's "blah people." 

[redheadbaker]

I know I'm, like, a week late, but I finally read this thread, and it was very enlightening. I'm yet another whiter-than-white girl that never would have thought that display of raw cotton could be considered offensive by anyone, but I know better now. I'm really grateful that I've learned about others' experiences and points of view on this board.

[LoveTrains]

Dec 15, 2014 21:47:01 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

@mx is a thief? What did I miss?!

Sent from my EVO

Please see MM and DWP.

[Deleted]

I do think we could be here all day if we wanted to discuss the horrors that the Irish dealt with under English occupation. But that's English history, UK history after unification.

It's not American history. The Irish came here to escape that shit and did. Some of them bought land that had been stolen from various Indian tribes and started farms and plantations and purchased slaves or borrowed slaves from neighboring plantations.

The awful plight of the Irish as some kind of counter point to American black history is a false one.

[teflepi]

Dec 15, 2014 23:43:26 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Dec 15, 2014 18:21:20 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Do I need to read this post? I have been avoiding it. What is going on in here?

I'm probably too late, but absolutely not.

you are wrong.  it is worth it for all non sands an florida posts

[AJL]

Dec 15, 2014 23:51:24 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Dec 15, 2014 21:47:01 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

@mx is a thief? What did I miss?!

Sent from my EVO

Please see MM and DWP.

OK, I just read the DWP thread and all I have to say is BEC.

[ttt]

Dec 16, 2014 0:14:17 GMT -5 AJL said:

Dec 15, 2014 23:51:24 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Please see MM and DWP.

OK, I just read the DWP thread and all I have to say is BEC.

And is it just me or does this seem to be...an overreaction? pandce.proboards.com/thread/400056/crying-target-parking-lot?page=1

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2014 0:29:59 GMT -5 ttt said:

Dec 16, 2014 0:14:17 GMT -5 AJL said:

OK, I just read the DWP thread and all I have to say is BEC.

And is it just me or does this seem to be...an overreaction? pandce.proboards.com/thread/400056/crying-target-parking-lot?page=1

BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN HER!

[sandsonik]

Dec 15, 2014 22:18:39 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

At this point we really just need to stop engaging. sandsonik has reached troll status that keeps on engaging. She just doesn't drop shit like lys and move on. She continues to tell us how things are. There is no other valid opinion or thought on the matter. Only hers. Once you all grasp that she is absolutely right in being offended at elitism (though nonexistent in mx's case) and to just get over racist ass cotton store displays we can move on.

Also, be careful of topics of old people and snaps. Because she just might snap off, again, and again. Oh and potatoes. Must not forget the fucking potatoes.

I'm not telling anyone to get over cotton store displays. Really, I'm not. I get it now. You can be offended by it and I don't have to be, and it's all good.

And I'm not saying mine Is the only Valid opinion. Not at all. I don't know why you say that.

I don't care if anyone forgets or remembers potatos; I only (along with a couple other posters) pointed out that people were getting it wrong about the Irish being forced to eat potatos because of the famine. The famine happened because the potato blight meant Irish couldn't eat potatos, and they couldn't eat the meat because they owed that to the British landlords. Other than getting the history right, I don't care, not my battle.

I won't apologize for being offended by mx expecting to be treated better because she's white. I think that's the very definition of racism.

And I don't apologize for thinking it's wrong to say that all old people should just die. Maybe you should put that into the name of the board if the board is only for 30 year olds.

But I think you have too much fun mocking me to care whether what you're attributing to me is honest or not. You'd rather talk about me than talk to me. And I'd rather talk to you than about you, which is why I reply to anyone who replied to me. I've seen how people get mad at Lys for not replying, so now I don't know what is correct anymore.

[sandsonik]

Dec 15, 2014 22:23:04 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Someone must have slipped something into her Metamucil.

You guys are so so clever. metamucil. maybe you can all explain that one to me one day so I can cool too.

[sandsonik]

Also smorriso, you soon missed the point when you said you would have been nicer if you knew my mother was dying. Why should it take that? Whether or not my mom was dying, I wouldn't find those " old people should die " comments funny.

[elleblue]

Dec 15, 2014 22:59:25 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Dec 15, 2014 20:42:42 GMT -5 elleblue said:

When multiple Irish people explain to me how a display of potatoes in a store or other public space is offensive because of their history, I will listen and not argue and (hopefully) empathize. But I just don't see that happening because it's not an apt comparison. Maybe if Harrods department store had barrels of rotten potatoes and gleaming sheaves of wheat as decor in their store, it would make sense for Irish people to feel some kind of way about it. But otherwise? Not the same. 

I do need the Northern Irish to stop doing this shit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_walk

Can of worms darling, can of worms!

But yeah, totally.

[katfco]

Dec 16, 2014 1:39:54 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Dec 15, 2014 22:18:39 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

At this point we really just need to stop engaging. sandsonik has reached troll status that keeps on engaging. She just doesn't drop shit like lys and move on. She continues to tell us how things are. There is no other valid opinion or thought on the matter. Only hers. Once you all grasp that she is absolutely right in being offended at elitism (though nonexistent in mx's case) and to just get over racist ass cotton store displays we can move on.

Also, be careful of topics of old people and snaps. Because she just might snap off, again, and again. Oh and potatoes. Must not forget the fucking potatoes.

I'm not telling anyone to get over cotton store displays. Really, I'm not. I get it now. You can be offended by it and I don't have to be, and it's all good.


I won't apologize for being offended by mx expecting to be treated better because she's white. I think that's the very definition of racism.

And I don't apologize for thinking it's wrong to say that all old people should just die. Maybe you should put that into the name of the board if the board is only for 30 year olds.

But I think you have too much fun mocking me to care whether what you're attributing to me is honest or not. You'd rather talk about me than talk to me. And I'd rather talk to you than about you, which is why I reply to anyone who replied to me. I've seen how people get mad at Lys for not replying, so now I don't know what is correct anymore.

But she wasn't describing what she expects; she was describing what is. There's a huge difference. It's called white privilege for a reason. 

And plenty of people have talked to you. 

As to saying people "can be offended by it," so now you're saying they can be offended by it? Your whole posts initially were that it wasn't something to be offended by. 

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 16, 2014 1:39:54 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

I won't apologize for being offended by mx expecting to be treated better because she's white. I think that's the very definition of racism.

Oh.My.God.

Stopstopstopstopstop.

Jesus take the wheel.

LOOK. I try to avoid engaging in pile-ons. But why must you interpret every little sentence the wrong way? You are reading shit that isn't there.

Mx is not saying, "Bow down to me, lady of white skin, ye inferior store clerks." What she says about white vs. black shoppers is the truth. My black friends get followed around the store more to make sure they're not stealing. They are more often assumed to be the help. They are asked for their receipts far more often than I am. This is both my own anecdotal evidence AND reality. Mx is speaking about reality.

And this is what's frustrating everyone - this is a thread about racism towards black people. When people come in and say, "Yeah well, the Irish had it bad too!", that dismisses racism towards black people. Would you interject the same way if we were discussing anti-Semitism? Probably not. If you would like to start a thread about the Famine, please do. I promise no black person will pop in and try to one-up you in the Suffering Olympics.

[5thofjuly]

Dec 15, 2014 20:29:51 GMT -5 flgirl said:

Dec 15, 2014 18:09:59 GMT -5 teflepi said:

No. The IRISH were not systematically killed. So, nope. Stop. STOP whitey

And there is the problem. The thought that one group suffered more or less then another group. I don't think blacks have the only claim to that. So I guess 1 million dead and 1 million emigrants from the potato famine just don't make the cut. Every ethnic, racial, religious group can be offended by something and we should understand and empathize.  At least I do.

It absolutely is possible that one group suffered/suffers more than another. It just is. Low income families in my state are in competition to get their children into Pre-K because there aren't enough spots for them. This morning, over 100 children were killed by the Taliban while at school. Both groups face discrimination and unequal opportunity when it comes to education. One group clearly suffered more than the other.

[sandsonik]

Dec 16, 2014 6:43:12 GMT -5 katfco said:

As to saying people "can be offended by it," so now you're saying they can be offended by it? Your whole posts initially were that it wasn't something to be offended by. 

Yes! Oh my god, yes.  About a hundred pages back I said that I see that  I was wrong.  

[NewOrleans]

Dec 16, 2014 0:08:54 GMT -5 toledo said:

Dec 15, 2014 23:39:04 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Eh, I was calling them cotton balls.  Out of all the shit posted in here, this is the least ignorant, lol.  Not to worry.

toledo, spokoino.  Don't skeer our lurkers. We even have @soudesafinado speaking in motherly tones to coax them out. (Then we will capture them and put them in our groupthink bag which is made of non-Uzbek cotton).

I just couldn't take it anymore, man.

I'll be good.

(angel)

[sandsonik]

Dec 16, 2014 8:43:45 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Dec 16, 2014 1:39:54 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Actually I spent (or maybe wasted, rather) quite a bit of time talking to you about the topic. Now, with your heels completely dug into to the ground, I am okay with talking about your ridiculous behavior in this thread. You're offenses on topics of discussion and other areas in life are valid, and you've been quite adamant about standing your ground on these things regardless of those who have repeatedly told you the opposite. Those (black folks) who have to deal with the consequences of offensive store displays. But again, you've been dismissive until you find something else to have a pedestal and expect us all to bow down to your ideas of offensive and not offensive.

Have you said these things word for word, no, but your posts sure as hell have translated as much. To my interpretation and others. 

Also, your opinion on the cotton store display is not valid. It exists, but imo, not valid by definition at all. It comes from a place of privilege and ignorance and frankly distraction. You're going on about poor employee treatment when that is consistent throughout retail and low wage jobs in general. That is a valid concern, and maybe best for another post on another day. However, this article and the core of this thread was about a racist store display. How the small and minor things that are overlooked by privileged white folks shopping for a damn sweater waxing poetic about the good 'ol days when slaves picked their cotton and put it into barrels.

A white person telling what or what isn't offensive to a non-white person is frustrating and belittling. So again, all of the things you've been posting have been just as insulting as my posts back to you. And as you can tell by the responses to me swearing, it isn't something I just jump to do to be a meanie. It is quite out of character for me to even get to page 18 talking about the same problem with someone so stuck on being right that they're failing to realize and empathize, yet expect empathy in return. 

So here is your non-cursing, non-name calling, non-questioning your intelligence response. However I don't think it will matter.

No, it matters.  It matters a lot.  I feel like maybe only three or four people have talked to me rather than talked at me throughout this thread.  (or talked about me, for that matter).

I'm not sure which opinion you mean when you say mine is not valid, so let me clarify and then see where we stand.  I meant that I understand you find the display offensive and I don't want to see anyone caused any pain so the store shouldn't display it.  When I said that 'I don't have to be offended by it", I meant not in a black history vs white privilege thing, than just the way I'm wired.  I will never, could never have such a visceral reaction to a plant.  I really tried to think of anything in my ancestors' history that could affect me that way and I couldn't.  That's not a judgement on those who do, but it's not me.  I don't place moral values on objects.  I threw my wedding dress in the trash after my wedding because it had served its purpose and I was done with it.  If it was whips or shackles, I'd see the negative message but cotton is too abstract for me and has a higher useful purpose.

But I understand that other people feel differently and there's too much hurt and pain in this world to see anyone suffer more than they already do, so the display should come down.  I would not wish to be a party to hurting anyone, whether or not I 'get' it.

So thank you for putting up with me and doing the non-swearing post.  I appreciate it more than you can know.  This afternoon I realized my weird emotions were probably about something else all together when I started crying ugly on the way home from work.  First Christmas without my mom, and she died last Dec 28.  And my damn 74 year old dad is making a fool of himself over a 34 year old GIRL.  I'm 51, so not only could he be her father, I could be her mother.  I feel betrayed for my mom though I know I should just want him to be happy.  I can't get there yet.

In regards to that other thing, where you said I should have just told you: maybe I should have but I don't bring up personal stuff generally.  I bet there are lots of people like me, old and dying, or who have someone dying, who read this board and don't need to see that stuff either.  Maybe it doesn't literally mean they should die, but it certainly can't make them feel welcome here and we don't talk that way to any other group.  For that matter I cringe when I read "die in a fire" because I can't think of anything more horrible.  I thank the spaghetti flying monster that I don't have anyone who died that way because I would relive it every time I read that.

So I apologize if I was an ass and happy holidays to you and yours.

[aurora]

sandsonik, I am truly sorry about your mom. It's a rough time of year for those missing loved ones.