Mayim Bialik : Don't fall for that similac commercial

[cilantro]

Proving correlation only doesn't mean causation has been disproven. I'm not saying I have any answers anyone else doesn't, but just because causation hasn't been proven doesn't mean it's stupid to consider these studies when making a choice on whether or not to breastfeed. No one is certain. A lot of this is art v. science (as nutrition is generally). And yet, somehow how you come out on the damn subject is more akin to religion these days.

[dancingirl21]

I don't know if the breast is best comment was directed at me, but I will throw in my input.

I have no medical reason not to breastfeed. However, for my family, I knew that breastfeeding was not going to be in my best interest or the interest of my child. I know myself well enough to know that I could not do all the nighttime wake-ups and I could not be the sole provider of feeding for my child. It would not have been a good situation for any of us and I am comfortable saying that.

Yes, I know the science shows that breast milk is nutritionally best for babies. However, science fails to take into account mentality and emotional well-being of mothers and babies.

I admire women who breastfeed. I admire women who formula feed. My opinion is as long as your baby is being fed, go you.

[juliette21]

She is such a smart woman, I wish she would use her time and energy and brains on something more important than this tired mommy war.

I find it strange when people who are out of the baby stage are still obsessing over things like NB, BF'ing, AP-stuff, etc. Her youngest kid is what, like 5? My boys are 5 and 2, and I couldn't care less about that stuff anymore. I've moved on to the older kid things that actually affect them now, like school, educational opps, activities, etc. etc. 

[Deleted]

I honestly don't know why anyone gives a shit about how someone else feeds their baby.

[redheadbaker]

Maybe I'm naive, but when I think of "Breast is Best," I'm thinking about it solely as ingredients in breastmilk vs. ingredients in formula. Formula will never perfectly replicate breastmilk. Not all of the other things (maternal emotional health, etc.) that people assign to it.

[cilantro]

And to reiterate, in case there is any confusion: I am not trying to put out 'breast is best, and therefore everyone should breastfeed.'

I am specifically addressing the comments of 'there's no real PROOF breast is best' which is really close to just saying there's no real reason to breastfeed, your deductions of the studies out there are wrong.

[Deleted]

Also NO PARENT does what is best for their child 100% of the time. It would probably be best for me not to wake dd2 up from her naps in the afternoons but I do it because I have to get dd1 from preschool. It's probably not best for my kids that I am typing this comment right now instead of doing something super enriching like reading them a story or taking them on a nature hike. It was definitely not the best choice to feed them frozen waffles this morning but I was out of both cage free organic farm fresh eggs and time.

We all make choices within the context of our day to day lives that are not the objectively "best" thing for our kids. IMO the "best" choice is the best possible one of reasonable options and sometimes we don't even do that.

Whether breast is best for you and your baby or not is highly contextual. Breastfeeding absolutely has nutritional and immunological benefits over formula but that doesn't make it the best choice for everyone.

[dancingirl21]

Feb 4, 2015 11:09:17 GMT -5 @this said:

You guys, it only took two years, but I think it's finally happened.

I think I have finally run out of fucks to give about BF/FFing.

I wish I was here. This is still my hot button. I think it always will be.

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 4, 2015 10:44:30 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:15:20 GMT -5 cilantro said:

I AM GOING TO GET CONTROVERSIAL HERE!!!

And then mmm accidentally posted for me before I got to finish this....

She's a crazy hippy judgmental anti-vax looney who thinks her neuroscience PhD makes her an expert in all the things baby and health related, but...the responses here are kind of showing me that there's little room left on this board to say you think the studies showing Breast is Best are sound.  And that sort of rubs me the wrong way.  It reminds me of all the people who have suggested to me that I wasted my time choosing to breastfeed.

I don't see the board leaning that way. I think the statement "breast is best" is very loaded but no one on this board argues there aren't proven health advantages that come from BFing.

Ditto cilantro and @tokenhoser that this is what we're seeing in this very thread. Which is ridiculous given that we all seem to be believers in science, in peer-reviewed legit studies, etc.

We all do shit that isn't "the best" for our kids. Yes, I breastfed and that was important to me. Then I weaned earlier than I hoped but it was absolutely the right decision for me to move onto formula at that point. No regrets, even though I *know* breast was best in our situation and could have tried harder at the time to make it continue to work (because I wasn't using medication incompatible with safe breastfeeding, I had the ability to pump at work, etc. etc. etc.).

My toddler eats goldfish. We have the TV on in the evenings and now she dances to the Final Jeopardy music. I own that these and others aren't the best decisions I can objectively make as a parent, but it works for us (ETA: because the family that watches Jeopardy! together, stays together). But let's not deny what science so far tells us even if it doesn't speak to our own unique situations. Studies just aren't going to do that.

[anna7602]

Feb 4, 2015 11:03:25 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

She is such a smart woman, I wish she would use her time and energy and brains on something more important than this tired mommy war.

I find it strange when people who are out of the baby stage are still obsessing over things like NB, BF'ing, AP-stuff, etc. Her youngest kid is what, like 5? My boys are 5 and 2, and I couldn't care less about that stuff anymore. I've moved on to the older kid things that actually affect them now, like school, educational opps, activities, etc. etc. 

I've said this before on the boards. DD is 6 and I've been asked way past the stage she was weaned and well before I was pregnant/nursing again (when it may have been relevant) whether I nursed her and for how long. I've also been asked about my birth experience with her. And this was by mothers with kids the same age, not pregnant or newborn-mom friends trying to figure out what they wanted. 

Like you, I do find it strange, but it does happen. 

[gibbinator]

Feb 4, 2015 11:04:43 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Maybe I'm naive, but when I think of "Breast is Best," I'm thinking about it solely as ingredients in breastmilk vs. ingredients in formula. Formula will never perfectly replicate breastmilk. Not all of the other things (maternal emotional health, etc.) that people assign to it.

I admit this is where I stand on my understanding the phrase too. With an asterisk for those who are on incompatible medications making the ingredients less desirable.
But I can see how if you're sensitive to the subject, and with all the formula shaming pro breastfeeding extremists out there, it does become a loaded phrase.
It's hard to come up with completely explanatory slogan including exceptions for billboards though

[Deleted]

I roll my eyes when almost all celebrities open their mouths. I find a great majority of them completely ridiculous due to how disconnected most are. I like to watch their shows, see who they're sleeping with, and see what they wear but I don't give any fucks on their world view on much of anything.

I love BBT and watch it always - even though MB is all kinds of weird.

[narockshard]

Feb 4, 2015 11:06:22 GMT -5 cilantro said:

And to reiterate, in case there is any confusion: I am not trying to put out 'breast is best, and therefore everyone should breastfeed.'

I am specifically addressing the comments of 'there's no real PROOF breast is best' which is really close to just saying there's no real reason to breastfeed, your deductions of the studies out there are wrong.

I don't know how to frame this right, but I'll try. I'm not really disputing breast is best content wise, maybe it's the stuff about IQ and obesity and all that kind of stuff related to BFing vs. FF that I question. Are THOSE things directly proven to be related to BM vs. F, or could those types of issues that occur later in life be more because of other factors, not necessarily how you were fed as an infant?

I mean I really have no idea and am genuinely curious. I've always thought breast was best and had every intention of BFing but I just never had the supply. So now I'm slightly more invested in figuring out these answers to know whether or not my kid will be more susceptible to those issues. And are there ways to compensate if she is? Or does the research really say if you weren't BF you just plain and simple won't be as healthy and you'll always be at a slight disadvantage to the BF person?

[babyrn]

Feb 4, 2015 11:03:25 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

I find it strange when people who are out of the baby stage are still obsessing over things like NB, BF'ing, AP-stuff, etc. Her youngest kid is what, like 5? My boys are 5 and 2, and I couldn't care less about that stuff anymore. I've moved on to the older kid things that actually affect them now, like school, educational opps, activities, etc. etc. 

But she's still BF her kid, right? Or is that just a rumor?

[Velar Fricative]

And because it just belongs in this thread:

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 4, 2015 11:28:39 GMT -5 babyrn said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:03:25 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

I find it strange when people who are out of the baby stage are still obsessing over things like NB, BF'ing, AP-stuff, etc. Her youngest kid is what, like 5? My boys are 5 and 2, and I couldn't care less about that stuff anymore. I've moved on to the older kid things that actually affect them now, like school, educational opps, activities, etc. etc. 

But she's still BF her kid, right? Or is that just a rumor?

I don't know about her younger child but I remember her writing about her weaning experience with her older child (pretty sure it was her older child) and I think he was around 4 or so. I don't know how old her youngest child is and AFAIK she hasn't written a blog entry about weaning him yet.

[cilantro]

Feb 4, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -5 narockshard said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:06:22 GMT -5 cilantro said:

And to reiterate, in case there is any confusion: I am not trying to put out 'breast is best, and therefore everyone should breastfeed.'

I am specifically addressing the comments of 'there's no real PROOF breast is best' which is really close to just saying there's no real reason to breastfeed, your deductions of the studies out there are wrong.

I don't know how to frame this right, but I'll try. I'm not really disputing breast is best content wise, maybe it's the stuff about IQ and obesity and all that kind of stuff related to BFing vs. FF that I question. Are THOSE things directly proven to be related to BM vs. F, or could those types of issues that occur later in life be more because of other factors, not necessarily how you were fed as an infant?

I mean I really have no idea and am genuinely curious. I've always thought breast was best and had every intention of BFing but I just never had the supply. So now I'm slightly more invested in figuring out these answers to know whether or not my kid will be more susceptible to those issues. And are there ways to compensate if she is? Or does the research really say if you weren't BF you just plain and simple won't be as healthy and you'll always be at a slight disadvantage to the BF person?

Effing proboards keep eating my posts! I had ALL THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS 2 seconds ago!

Just kidding.  Someone smarter than me can expound upon this in greater detail.  This all relates to the 'correlation has been proven, causation has neither been proven nor disproven' stuff above.  Nutrition is a lot art, and not science and I don't think there's any way to say 'if you just do x, y, z, all will be compensated for' or that it necessarily is going to matter at all.

But I feel pretty confident to put my money on the fact that your kid is going to turn out just fine by virtue of the fact that you're even thinking about this in such detail. 

[rbp]

Feb 4, 2015 10:40:27 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:36:31 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Ok. Access to online forums aside, I still feel like there are certain products that have very high marketing budgets when it seems like word-of-mouth would count for more. Another example is cars. Do people really go out and buy a certain make/model of car because an ad showed Sting riding in one? Again, I can't remember what kind of car that was in the ad.

IMO the thing about Enfamil and Similac is that they are "trusted" brands and there are a lot of people out there who think they are better than generics (like my coworker, who also won't buy generic ibuprofin). Seeing this commercial might tip you to the scales of Similac. And you also never know about WOM. I didn't have any mom friends when I had DS1 and had I not had TB, I may have started supplementing with Similac instead of Target brand just because I knew the name.

ETA: At THIS point I really on WOM/recommendations for a lot of things, but I didn't really have that option as a FTM who was one of the first of her friends to  have a baby.

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same??  ^o)

[cilantro]

Feb 4, 2015 11:41:09 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

"Artificial baby milk" just makes me lol. I guess that's supposed to be more offensive than "formula"? I'm assuming I don't have the same visceral reaction to the word artificial that she does.

Same!  I think this sounds so much nicer.  Formula sounds so cold.  I picture white coats in a sterile lab mixing green boiling concoctions together like in cartoons. 

[rbp]

Feb 4, 2015 10:56:42 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

And h - I'm basically following you around today (possibly forever) and just liking everything you say.

Me too. We should make posters.

[Velar Fricative]

Eh, I actually prefer formula over artificial baby milk, but I couldn't tell you why. I definitely read Mayim using "artificial baby milk" with a tone of derision though.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5 rbp said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:40:27 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

IMO the thing about Enfamil and Similac is that they are "trusted" brands and there are a lot of people out there who think they are better than generics (like my coworker, who also won't buy generic ibuprofin). Seeing this commercial might tip you to the scales of Similac. And you also never know about WOM. I didn't have any mom friends when I had DS1 and had I not had TB, I may have started supplementing with Similac instead of Target brand just because I knew the name.

ETA: At THIS point I really on WOM/recommendations for a lot of things, but I didn't really have that option as a FTM who was one of the first of her friends to  have a baby.

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same?? 

There are people on this board that are confused that Advil = Motrin = ibuprofen.

[gretchenindisguise]

I feel like having formula available undermines breastfeeding in the same way that having condoms available makes teenagers have sex.

[redheadbaker]

Feb 4, 2015 11:48:01 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I feel like having formula available undermines breastfeeding in the same way that having condoms available makes teenagers have sex.

Then why do you think formula companies keep doing it? Why not save the money they lose from giving away product? 

[catbus]

Feb 4, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5 rbp said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:40:27 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

IMO the thing about Enfamil and Similac is that they are "trusted" brands and there are a lot of people out there who think they are better than generics (like my coworker, who also won't buy generic ibuprofin). Seeing this commercial might tip you to the scales of Similac. And you also never know about WOM. I didn't have any mom friends when I had DS1 and had I not had TB, I may have started supplementing with Similac instead of Target brand just because I knew the name.

ETA: At THIS point I really on WOM/recommendations for a lot of things, but I didn't really have that option as a FTM who was one of the first of her friends to  have a baby.

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same?? 

*Whispers* I've seen that on this very board. People are skeptical that the generic is "as good as" the real stuff, or they buy Motrin/Advil because they don't realize it's just ibuprofen. We never had the brand names in my house growing up, so I always assumed everyone knows Tylenol=acetaminophen, Advil=ibuprofen, etc. 

[karinothing]

Feb 4, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -5 narockshard said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:06:22 GMT -5 cilantro said:

And to reiterate, in case there is any confusion: I am not trying to put out 'breast is best, and therefore everyone should breastfeed.'

I am specifically addressing the comments of 'there's no real PROOF breast is best' which is really close to just saying there's no real reason to breastfeed, your deductions of the studies out there are wrong.

I don't know how to frame this right, but I'll try. I'm not really disputing breast is best content wise, maybe it's the stuff about IQ and obesity and all that kind of stuff related to BFing vs. FF that I question. Are THOSE things directly proven to be related to BM vs. F, or could those types of issues that occur later in life be more because of other factors, not necessarily how you were fed as an infant?

I mean I really have no idea and am genuinely curious. I've always thought breast was best and had every intention of BFing but I just never had the supply. So now I'm slightly more invested in figuring out these answers to know whether or not my kid will be more susceptible to those issues. And are there ways to compensate if she is? Or does the research really say if you weren't BF you just plain and simple won't be as healthy and you'll always be at a slight disadvantage to the BF person?

I think IQ is very hard to separate out re: correlation and causation. I think obesity less so, but I think there are some studies re: bottle feeding in general and higher obesity rates. OBVIOUSLY this is something that good nutrition and common sense can overcome. I do think there are benefits to breastfeeding that one is not going to find in formula, there seems to be some pretty concrete evidence that breast milk reduces the risk of NEC in preemies. Absent preemies? I think there are still benefits but don't know that those benefits are going to make a world of difference in a healthy kid. For example, yes it reduces the risk of asthma (but doesn't eliminate the risk). Yes it lessens RSV symptoms (but again doesn't eliminate it). And please remember, these are small reductions really. It is kind of like the circ argument. Yes, circumcision reduces the risk of HIV but ones risk of getting HIV is already so small to begin with, one has to personally decide whether it is worth it. But just because numbers are small doesn't mean it is junk science.

I think the link between mother's reduced risk of cancer and breastfeeding is an interesting one (although that seems to be related to reduced number of periods throughout life, so there might be other ways to do that).

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is that % benefit numbers are so small that most people that aren't scientist or statisticians doing a study aren't going to notice an impact in their real life (absent preemies). And there are plenty of other things you can do to combat any minimal deficiencies not breastfeeding might present.

In the end, both serve just fine as food.

[purplecow0206]

Feb 4, 2015 11:50:34 GMT -5 catbus said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5 rbp said:

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same?? 

*Whispers* I've seen that on this very board. People are skeptical that the generic is "as good as" the real stuff, or they buy Motrin/Advil because they don't realize it's just ibuprofen. We never had the brand names in my house growing up, so I always assumed everyone knows Tylenol=acetaminophen, Advil=ibuprofen, etc. 

H is the same way, actually. He's fine with using generics, but he grew up with all name brand stuff and doesn't know the generic names for anything. I have to write Tylenol or Advil on the bottles so he knows which is which, lol

[cilantro]

Feb 4, 2015 11:50:34 GMT -5 catbus said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5 rbp said:

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same?? 

*Whispers* I've seen that on this very board. People are skeptical that the generic is "as good as" the real stuff, or they buy Motrin/Advil because they don't realize it's just ibuprofen. We never had the brand names in my house growing up, so I always assumed everyone knows Tylenol=acetaminophen, Advil=ibuprofen, etc. 

And now I want to move on with changing this thread to this topic....people have insisted to me that 'the binders' are different in generics v. real thing and that somehow matters.

Someone tell me if this is a real thing?!?!

[rugbywife]

It think it is ridiculous to presume that all formula advertising is geared towards people who already formula feed. Of course they are trying to convince BFers to switch. A market is a market is a market and this is capitalism.

[h]

Feb 4, 2015 11:53:32 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:56:54 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

I think there's little doubt on the board that there are lots of benefits to be gleaned from breastfeeding. I'm assuming the correlation vs causation concerns pp brought up are more geared to studies that link off the wall things like high IQ and good grades to breastmilk.

Yes, exactly. I don't disagree that, in a perfect world and all other things being equal, BM has health benefits over formula. BUt I think the benefits are so small compared to how they have been touted. I mean, it gets ridiculous to hear people talk about all the things that BM and breastfeeding itself do. Any problem you or your baby have, breastfeeding will solve it! Breastfeeding lets you survive on less sleep! Wards off the common cold! Cures conjunctivitis! Prevents alzheimer's! Breast cancer! And so on. It starts sounding like snake oil.

I really, really wish I had the post from mothering.com years ago where a woman claimed that she was able to reattach her child's nose with breast milk after it was bitten off by a dog. It is my favorite ridiculous example of breast as a panacea ever.