Mayim Bialik : Don't fall for that similac commercial

[redheadbaker]

Feb 4, 2015 17:06:45 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Feb 4, 2015 12:39:58 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Sorry, I went zero - 60, and I really didn't mean to personally attack you, just the general anti-samples thing. I'm also bitter because my hospital went "baby friendly" after I had Joanna and I guess doesn't give the samples anymore. (Obviously I got formula for E since she was FF from the beginning.)  I also do hate that formula companies are portrayed as preying on new moms. I get that they are a business and yes, they are trying to get people to use their product, but they also do provide a valuable product. It's not like they are trying to get moms addicted to heroin. I don't know, just maybe some perspective here. (Not you in particular.)

While they provide a valuable product, they also use some pretty seriously fucked up tactics to prey on vulnerable women in developing countries. This has very real, very sad health consequences for children given the water supply in many of these areas. Diarrhea is the leading cause of death among infants in developing countries. Infants under two months of age who are not breastfed are 25 times as likely to die of diarrhea than infants exclusively breastfed. Formula companies KNOW this and continue to market to these populations.

And while formula samples in hospitals may be beneficial to some, research bears out that it does negatively impact BFing rates. So, it makes sense to me that hospitals would discourage the blanket giving out of samples. What you experienced as very positive in a dark moment, many other moms experience as preying on their vulnerability when they are anxious and depressed. 

On an individual basis, I don't care how anyone feeds their kiddo. I don't think one particular reason is more valid than another--your body, your choice. 100%. (And, frankly, I find the topic so fucking dull I really never discuss infant feeding with IRL friends).  But when we're talking on a population level (especially looking beyond the US), BFing does carry significant benefits and marketing of formula can be really harmful. 

Your second paragraph is a much better phrasing of what I was trying to get across. I do not think formula is the devil. I think it is a perfectly legitimate food source. I don't care if you can't or don't want to breastfeed. 

My intention with my comments was not to shame or guilt any mom who used those samples, and gave up breastfeeding. If you did, and you were happy -- great! 

But I do not like the formula companies' methods of preying on new mothers that way. 

[h]

Feb 4, 2015 17:34:56 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

I feel like Mayim is totally going to stumble across this post.

Maybe we should do an AMA for her.

Oh, I can totally see this getting back to Mayim. If nothing else, Jenna Von Oy will no doubt wonder about the sudden increase in her blog traffic and trace it to this thread. Assuming they have not quit speaking over their kids' vaccination status (does Six vax???), perhaps Jenna will alert Mayim.

[karinothing]

Feb 4, 2015 17:14:10 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

You are right. I was not even thinking about other countries in this discussion until bugs' post at the top of p.7.

And I'll admit it's really hard for me to care about the impact of formula samples on breastfeeding rates in this country.

I do think there is some reason to care about rates in this country. We have heard on these boards before that WIC doesn't provide enough credits to fully feed an infant formula so mothers are forced to water down formula or feed their babies less often. Encouraging  breastfeeding is one way to address that problem.

ETA: And likely easier to do than get congress to increase WIC spending

[karinothing]

Feb 4, 2015 18:19:26 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 4, 2015 17:59:45 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I do think there is some reason to care about rates in this country. We have heard on these boards before that WIC doesn't provide enough credits to fully feed an infant formula so mothers are forced to water down formula or feed their babies less often. Encouraging  breastfeeding is one way to address that problem.

ETA: And likely easier to do than get congress to increase WIC spending

But it's not a way to address the problem when women don't have the physical time to be there with their babies because they have to work some low paying job.

Oh i agree. Although encouraging would include helping women in low wage jobs breastfeed at work. But there are also a significant number of woman who do not work on WIC. Anyway not trying to solve all problems just saying it is one angle

[karinothing]

Feb 4, 2015 18:21:29 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Feb 4, 2015 17:59:45 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I do think there is some reason to care about rates in this country. We have heard on these boards before that WIC doesn't provide enough credits to fully feed an infant formula so mothers are forced to water down formula or feed their babies less often. Encouraging  breastfeeding is one way to address that problem.

ETA: And likely easier to do than get congress to increase WIC spending

Another way to address that problem (and probably better than perpetuating mommy wars, but again, harder) would be to fight to get real fucking maternity leave in this country.  Obviously someone on WIC working hard to survive may not even take the 12 weeks of FMLA because she needs the effing money so badly.  If you had problems with latching and what not in the beginning, finally get over that and now you have to deal with pumping, no wonder rates are so low.

This problem is SO MUCH BIGGER than Similac or even all formula companies and their marketing, that I cannot possibly give a shit about their commercials.  Let's focus on the real issue, people.

Signed,
breastfeeding mom who "fumbled" with a tent

Oh i agree it is bigger. I was only responding to the comment about not caring about breastfeeding rates in the country. I was providing a reason why it might matter.

I agree with pretty much all you said

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2015 10:58:50 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:56:54 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

I think there's little doubt on the board that there are lots of benefits to be gleaned from breastfeeding. I'm assuming the correlation vs causation concerns pp brought up are more geared to studies that link off the wall things like high IQ and good grades to breastmilk.

I agree with cilantro - several posters have made known that they don't really think breastmilk is a benefit in any significant way. And that saying it does have benefits is some kind of slam against their sub-par parenting.

I usually like to read all the post before commenting but this here .... Subpar parenting? Excuse me?

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2015 20:56:21 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:58:50 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

I agree with cilantro - several posters have made known that they don't really think breastmilk is a benefit in any significant way. And that saying it does have benefits is some kind of slam against their sub-par parenting.

I usually like to read all the post before commenting but this here .... Subpar parenting? Excuse me?

That's not what I was saying. That's what the people telling me that breastfeeding was a pointless waste of my time implied I thought.

Take your outrage elsewhere.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2015 11:42:16 GMT -5 rbp said:

Feb 4, 2015 10:40:27 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

IMO the thing about Enfamil and Similac is that they are "trusted" brands and there are a lot of people out there who think they are better than generics (like my coworker, who also won't buy generic ibuprofin). Seeing this commercial might tip you to the scales of Similac. And you also never know about WOM. I didn't have any mom friends when I had DS1 and had I not had TB, I may have started supplementing with Similac instead of Target brand just because I knew the name.

ETA: At THIS point I really on WOM/recommendations for a lot of things, but I didn't really have that option as a FTM who was one of the first of her friends to  have a baby.

She is stupid or uninformed. Are there still people out there who don't know that generic drugs are the same?? 

Is this sarcastic? Ibuprofen - sure buy generic. But some prescription meds? These days? Not the same.
5 yrs ago -generic was fine. Nowadays - it's all from overseas no quality control. Poor inspections etx.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2015 20:57:25 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Feb 4, 2015 20:56:21 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

I usually like to read all the post before commenting but this here .... Subpar parenting? Excuse me?

That's not what I was saying. That's what the people telling me that breastfeeding was a pointless waste of my time implied I thought.

Take your outrage elsewhere.

My bad. I read it backward.

[Willis Jackson]

Jenna Von Oy was on Celebrity Wife Swap.

[Velar Fricative]

Dammit, enough about Blossom and Six already!

[july]

Didn't read everything, but that ad annoyed me because, while it was entertaining, it did not have that powerful of a message. I doubt that many people with negative opinions about practices of other moms are going to be changed because of that ad. It was simply entertainment for a minute or two.

It really lost my interest when the similac symbol appeared. I probably wouldn't have cared if Huggies came on the screen, but can see others not liking that.

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 4, 2015 20:10:38 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I don't think the answer is to box women into breastfeeding, and that is what I feel like is going on any time people start talking about cutting formula advertising or eliminating samples. Don't let them know there's another choice! Make it hard for them to give into formula by keeping it out of reach! We need better maternity leave, better accommodations for breastfeeding mothers who do return to the workforce, and more realistic formula coverage through WIC. A woman shouldn't have to turn to formula because she works, nor should she have to breastfeed her baby because she can't afford formula. I have a HUGE problem with the idea that the only solution for the inability to purchase and/or properly mix and store formula is to breastfeed. Obviously this will take people actually doing something about the situation, not just arguing about it on the internet.

I want to like this a million times.

[missmaddie]

Feb 4, 2015 12:15:07 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:53:32 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Yes, exactly. I don't disagree that, in a perfect world and all other things being equal, BM has health benefits over formula. BUt I think the benefits are so small compared to how they have been touted. I mean, it gets ridiculous to hear people talk about all the things that BM and breastfeeding itself do. Any problem you or your baby have, breastfeeding will solve it! Breastfeeding lets you survive on less sleep! Wards off the common cold! Cures conjunctivitis! Prevents alzheimer's! Breast cancer! And so on. It starts sounding like snake  essential oils.

I think you mean coconut essential oils 

Late, but I have to correct both you and @tamcat.    

[karinothing]

Feb 4, 2015 20:10:38 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I don't think the answer is to box women into breastfeeding, and that is what I feel like is going on any time people start talking about cutting formula advertising or eliminating samples. Don't let them know there's another choice! Make it hard for them to give into formula by keeping it out of reach! We need better maternity leave, better accommodations for breastfeeding mothers who do return to the workforce, and more realistic formula coverage through WIC. A woman shouldn't have to turn to formula because she works, nor should she have to breastfeed her baby because she can't afford formula. I have a HUGE problem with the idea that the only solution for the inability to purchase and/or properly mix and store formula is to breastfeed. Obviously this will take people actually doing something about the situation, not just arguing about it on the internet.

To be clear i wasn't arguing that the only solution was breastfeeding. Just one solution. Just didn't want you to think i was a crazy person LOL

[jeaniebueller]

Feb 4, 2015 18:22:48 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Feb 4, 2015 18:19:26 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

But it's not a way to address the problem when women don't have the physical time to be there with their babies because they have to work some low paying job.

Oh i agree. Although encouraging would include helping women in low wage jobs breastfeed at work. But there are also a significant number of woman who do not work on WIC. Anyway not trying to solve all problems just saying it is one angle

I found these statistics about WIC from my state. I thought it was interesting:

www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/An_Average_day_in_WIC_2014_468936_7.pdf

So at least in my state, 61% of moms on WIC do BF.

[karinothing]

Feb 5, 2015 8:18:36 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Feb 4, 2015 18:22:48 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Oh i agree. Although encouraging would include helping women in low wage jobs breastfeed at work. But there are also a significant number of woman who do not work on WIC. Anyway not trying to solve all problems just saying it is one angle

I found these statistics about WIC from my state. I thought it was interesting:

www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/An_Average_day_in_WIC_2014_468936_7.pdf

So at least in my state, 61% of moms on WIC do BF.

That is great. I know WIC does provide support, which is awesome.

[gibbinator]

I really love the health district where I live because the LC does (free) house calls within a certain zone. And if you live outside of that area a public health nurse trained in lactation will visit you every week if you ask. It's so amazing to have that support.
Our hospital also teams with chiropractors and an osteopath to help with certain physical nursing problems like palate shape etc. It's great when professionals from different ideologies can cooperate.

[D2M]

I think LC fees can be reimbursed by insurance. I got some paperwork to submit but between the breastfeeding woes, lack of sleep, busted tail bone and general falling apart-ness, I didn't bother. Eating that $250 fee is not an option for a lot of women, so yes, I totally agree with everything everyone's said here re: breastfeeding support. It's tough, man!

[karinothing]

Feb 5, 2015 8:54:40 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 5, 2015 8:49:55 GMT -5 @this said:

Me too! I was REALLY struggling a few weeks in and called the LC at the hospital (because when I was there they were all, "Call with any questions!!!! We're here for you!") and I wanted to come in to see if I was doing it right. She basically shut me down over the phone, told me what I was dealing with was normal, have a nice day. Ooooookay.

Our hospital allowed us to come back in for help in the first 10 days. Great! Within 10 days post partum, I really wanted to drive the 30-40 minutes to the hospital and do that.

Otherwise, it was just hiring someone to come to my disaster of a house (a huge, huge stressful experience for me). 

Ugh, that sucks. I was lucky that we were able to find a pedi w/a LC (although luckily didn't need her services). But at least that makes it a tad more convinent (and I think covered by insurance). I also really appreciate the ones that come to houses, but i was recieving home care from my birth assistant/midwives so I wasn't stressed about that. I thought it was nice to have them come into the house to work with me on stuff where I didn't have to move. But I could see how it would be stressful (they didn't seem to mind my disaster though lol).

[bowies]

Feb 5, 2015 9:06:56 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

It pisses me off how bad some LCs are that I've read on here. The one I used was really amazing and supportive of my decision to supplement with formula so I could sleep through the night.

I know, right?  The LC in the hospital sucked. Spent a small amount of time "observing", handed me my goodie bag, and was on her merry way. I told a nurse later that I'd like to see her again before we were discharged but she never came back.

Luckily my pediatrician's office had a doctor on staff who had trained to become an LC. We made an appointment with her after DS's first post-hospital weigh in and she spent an hour with me and DS correcting his latch, teaching me how to hold him, fitting me for pump flanges, and what signs to look for to indicate that I should switch sides. She was instrumental to my success at BFing, and I say that as someone who currently combo feeds with no guilt. She helped me with that too (and hooked me up with a bunch of samples). I really, really wish more pedi offices would follow their lead and have an MD/LC on staff.    

[Deleted]

My commie health region kicks you out of the hospital swiftly (often after one night, almost certainly after 2), but the in-home support was amazing. They checked in on us the day after we got home, and then a couple days after that. They'll continue follow-up if they have concerns with the baby, and being able to see mom and baby at home gives them a much more realistic idea of what kind of support you need. Those nurses are great with helping with nursing and see babies at that stage (a few days old rather than just brand new babies) all the time so they've got good instincts.

I love that program SO MUCH. I think it does a lot of good.

[halfpint]

Feb 5, 2015 8:54:40 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 5, 2015 8:49:55 GMT -5 @this said:

Me too! I was REALLY struggling a few weeks in and called the LC at the hospital (because when I was there they were all, "Call with any questions!!!! We're here for you!") and I wanted to come in to see if I was doing it right. She basically shut me down over the phone, told me what I was dealing with was normal, have a nice day. Ooooookay.

Our hospital allowed us to come back in for help in the first 10 days. Great! Within 10 days post partum, I really wanted to drive the 30-40 minutes to the hospital and do that.

Otherwise, it was just hiring someone to come to my disaster of a house (a huge, huge stressful experience for me). 

This makes me sad. Our LCs were so supportive (and free) at my hospital. She let me come in when he was 11 weeks old (so about to return to work) and I was worried about pumping output, let me try the hospital grade pump, did a weighed feeding, checked my latch, basically reassured me that I was normal.

There was also a weekly support group that was free for any nursing parent, even if you didn't deliver at that hospital. An LC was there, you could weigh each week, they provided drinks and snacks, and she even made us lactation cookies once. It was pretty bare bones, but it was a safe place to ask questions, have someone see if you were doing it right...just seeing moms there with slightly older babies, successfully nursing and babies gaining weight, or hearing that someone else had the same struggles as me made all the difference. I would have quit if it weren't for that group and a supportive pediatrician. 

Parents should absolutely be able to choose what's best for their family, but they should have all the tools available to be successful, and not for $xxx/hour. 

[narockshard]

I'm surprised at how great my area is with BFing support. Our hospital is in the process of becoming "baby friendly" so I saw 2 or 3 LCs that were really, really good at the hospital. Plus the nurse that helped me in recovery helped J get latched on and everything. Even when she wouldn't latch she helped hand express so she could get colostrum at least. We also signed up for a free nurse visit 2 weeks later, and that lady was not quite an LC but certified in something else, and she was extremely helpful. PLUS, the hospital has a free weekly BFing support group that was seriously amazing.

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2015 9:42:47 GMT -5 halfpint said:

Parents should absolutely be able to choose what's best for their family, but they should have all the tools available to be successful, and not for $xxx/hour. 

That is where the rhetoric of breastfeeding benefits being inconsequential gets dangerous. If there's no particular advantage to breastfeeding, why support it? Why put public funds into helping a woman meet her breastfeeding goals if it doesn't matter? If FF is entirely equal to (or better than) BF, then we end up where we were 50 years ago.

[countthestars]

Feb 5, 2015 9:49:26 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Feb 5, 2015 9:42:47 GMT -5 halfpint said:

Parents should absolutely be able to choose what's best for their family, but they should have all the tools available to be successful, and not for $xxx/hour. 

That is where the rhetoric of breastfeeding benefits being inconsequential gets dangerous. If there's no particular advantage to breastfeeding, why support it? Why put public funds into helping a woman meet her breastfeeding goals if it doesn't matter? If FF is entirely equal to (or better than) BF, then we end up where we were 50 years ago.

Maybe I'm being dense, but what's so bad about "where we were 50 years ago", at least in the US and Canada? Also, I'd argue that the ingredients in formula has come quite a long way in 50 years.  

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2015 9:54:34 GMT -5 countthestars said:

Feb 5, 2015 9:49:26 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

That is where the rhetoric of breastfeeding benefits being inconsequential gets dangerous. If there's no particular advantage to breastfeeding, why support it? Why put public funds into helping a woman meet her breastfeeding goals if it doesn't matter? If FF is entirely equal to (or better than) BF, then we end up where we were 50 years ago.

Maybe I'm being dense, but what's so bad about "where we were 50 years ago", at least in the US and Canada? Also, I'd argue that the ingredients in formula has come quite a long way in 50 years.  

I meant that breastfeeding initiation rates were 21%. As in, 79% of mothers did not try, even one time, to breastfeed.

I obviously do believe that breastfeeding is beneficial in numerous ways for both mother and baby, so that, to me, would not be a great thing to return to.

[anna7602]

Feb 5, 2015 9:21:39 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

I really love the health district where I live because the LC does (free) house calls within a certain zone. And if you live outside of that area a public health nurse trained in lactation will visit you every week if you ask. It's so amazing to have that support.
Our hospital also teams with chiropractors and an osteopath to help with certain physical nursing problems like palate shape etc. It's great when professionals from different ideologies can cooperate.

Ok, I now have Canada envy.

[anna7602]

Feb 5, 2015 9:24:01 GMT -5 D2M said:

I think LC fees can be reimbursed by insurance. I got some paperwork to submit but between the breastfeeding woes, lack of sleep, busted tail bone and general falling apart-ness, I didn't bother. Eating that $250 fee is not an option for a lot of women, so yes, I totally agree with everything everyone's said here re: breastfeeding support. It's tough, man!

Every insurance plan is different, so I can only speak to my experience. I was reimbursed for a certain percentage of my LC fees, but I had to hit my deductible for the year first. And I had to have the cash for the LCs upfront, without knowing if my insurance would approve the claim or not for the reimbursement.

[gibbinator]

Feb 5, 2015 10:00:58 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Feb 5, 2015 9:21:39 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

I really love the health district where I live because the LC does (free) house calls within a certain zone. And if you live outside of that area a public health nurse trained in lactation will visit you every week if you ask. It's so amazing to have that support.
Our hospital also teams with chiropractors and an osteopath to help with certain physical nursing problems like palate shape etc. It's great when professionals from different ideologies can cooperate.

Ok, I now have Canada envy.

Well I don't claim it's Canada wide, but my district (and generally the direction our provincial health care is slowly moving) is pretty amazing.