Post by Captain Serious on Jul 16, 2015 13:15:39 GMT -5
As for the worst thing that could happen, not just regret. Someone who has a condition similar to my son's would likely become depressed, angry, lash out, and possibly self-injure if they were "stuck" with a permanent tattoo they regret. There's a reason some people aren't ever granted fill autonomy, even over their bodies. I understand this is very hard to fully understand if you haven't seen/lived with it.
Then just give him the information. No need to drive him and do all the talking.
so...basically what people have said all along?
jfc.
That is not at all what people have been saying; don't start backpedaling now. The implication was that she was horrible to question letting her husband drive and facilitate the appointment.
Not everyone has familiarity with the needs, routines, and various legal capacities of people who are not neurotypical (I'm not). It's not dickish to think to yourself or talk with your spouse about whether the involvement requested of you is wise to undertake for a whole host of reasons. Rak didn't say she was going to go around playing tattoo police, she was just asking a question.
/slap to the face*
*ETA I'm only slapping people coming after Rak. The rest of you fend for yourselves and your own interventionist nonsense.
Saying it's not the OP's place to make assumptions about his mental capacity to make this choice for himself is not at all the same as saying they are horrible if they don't take him to the tattoo parlor.
Saying it's not the OP's place to make assumptions about his mental capacity to make this choice for himself is not at all the same as saying they are horrible if they don't take him to the tattoo parlor.
Also, as the mom of a child with a mental disorder, I would appreciate if someone took the time to get a better read on the situation rather than just taking him to get a tattoo even when he is an adult.
It's not to deny the person of personal choice, it's too make sure that the decision has been completely thought through and the consequences are fully understood.
I agree with this. My brother is 38 but his mind is on about a 6th grade level. I appreciate the people who look out for him. Just because he is of a certain age does not mean mentally he is of the same age.
Who isn't at all against tattoos for anyone, but feels strongly that this is a decision that should be made only by people with the capacity to understand its ramifications.
You thrive on making ridiculous over-the-top assertions to "win" arguments, even when they are absurd and not at all accurate depictions of what is being said.
People with emotional and intellectual disabilities have the right to live, learn, love, and fail. They have the right to make decisions with regards to their own leisure, healthcare and bodies.
This man found a wonderful natural support in the community in your husband. What a great thing!
I imagine that he may need to save for a little while to afford a tattoo unless he has a job that pays well. I think the time to save may make him think about the tattoo further.
Natural Supports= Natural Consequences. A life like any other.
Stop being obtuse. I didn't ever say that he should be allowed to get a tattoo. Just that it may help to know if he has the capacity to make the decision on his own.
Even if he is under guardianship or someone's care, then a conversation can happen and a decision can be made. But this isn't the mind of thing I would rush into without first knowing more about the situation. That's all I said, and I will stand by it.
It's not their job to figure this out, it would be the job of his caregivers to say yes or no, if he is not capable of making his own decisions.
RARELY is someone not able to make a choice regarding a tattoo. They would have to be under full legal guardianship. And even then it's dicey because a tattoo isn't neccesarily harmful ( unless performed in substandard facilities).
Even a person under full legal guardianship has the right to make everyday choices that affect their lives.
Ask him. He's an adult, no? Why would anyone think it's OK to question this woman, behind his back, instead of him?
If your DH is friendly with him, he could offer him a lift home and get to know him better.
Maybe he does have some disability or difference, but that wouldn't necessarily impact his soundness to make a decision regarding a tattoo. What do you mean by "mental capacity"? IQ, cognition, executive function, maturity? I would guess that if he was so impaired that he would require a guardian or conservator for a tattoo, he would not be attending an evening bowling league without a caregiver of some sort.
I can think of any number of reasons why he might not drive- DUI and loss of license, perhaps he lives in a recovery house, maybe he has seizures and can't get medically cleared to drive.
Post by snipsnsnails on Jul 16, 2015 13:45:51 GMT -5
What an odd direction within this thread.
Yes, he might need permission from someone. Thinking about the clients my mother worked with for 40+ years in all sorts of home, group and institutional settings, they were either wards of the state or, more rarely, in her specific setting the dependent of family. A tattoo would require additional permission if, in fact, the man has a certain level of developmental delays. There is nothing wrong with questioning him or his companion in a kind and compassionate way to see if that's the case. Seeing as they are friends with this man and knowing rak, I wouldn't have any reason to think it would be anything but.
Ask him. He's an adult, no? Why would anyone think it's OK to question this woman, behind his back, instead of him?
If your DH is friendly with him, he could offer him a lift home and get to know him better.
Maybe he does have some disability or difference, but that wouldn't necessarily impact his soundness to make a decision regarding a tattoo. What do you mean by "mental capacity"? IQ, cognition, executive function, maturity? I would guess that if he was so impaired that he would require a guardian or conservator for a tattoo, he would not be attending an evening bowling league without a caregiver of some sort.
I can think of any number of reasons why he might not drive- DUI and loss of license, perhaps he lives in a recovery house, maybe he has seizures and can't get medically cleared to drive.
Who said anything about doing it behind the man's back? I was very clear about talking to the caregiver with the man's knowledge.
So, you would decide against involvement. All in saying is, if they want to help/be involved, they should find out more before doing so.
I would not take him to get a tattoo if I had questions regarding his mental status, no, I wouldn't want to get involved. I'd give him the info. I don't know why you are making this so damn complicated.
I'm not making anything complicated she asked for feedback, and I suggested she find out more.
Post by spellingbea on Jul 16, 2015 13:57:37 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with this question. I would casually mention it to his caregiver, in front of him, that there was some interest in getting a tattoo. It's possible that he's perfectly capable of noticing if the area got infected, or it's possible that he isn't. Also, if the tattoo artist was a little hesitant for whatever reason, having a caregiver there to say it was okay might be a good idea.
None of this is your DH's responsibility, but it couldn't hurt to mention it to the woman, whoever she is.
Yes, he might need permission from someone. Thinking about the clients my mother worked with for 40+ years in all sorts of home, group and institutional settings, they were either wards of the state or, more rarely, in her specific setting the dependent of family. A tattoo would require additional permission if, in fact, the man has a certain level of developmental delays. There is nothing wrong with questioning him or his companion in a kind and compassionate way to see if that's the case. Seeing as they are friends with this man and knowing rak, I wouldn't have any reason to think it would be anything but.
no. this is terrible advice. you do not need to insert yourself in anything. rak's H is friends with this guy, but clearly not close friends or he would be aware of his living situation (at least partially).
for all anyone knows, he might live with a friend or family member who is one of those weirdos that likes to wear scrubs as clothing (like, leggings for pants or mumus as dresses, etc). there is really no basis to prod.
They're friends-just starting a friendship, it sounds like. It's not prodding if he asked about the tattoo?? No need to act weird about it. I feel like this is the Twilight Zone. Ask him or his friend that drops him off. It doesn't have to be any more or less than that.
ok, so maybe rak knows more than what she wrote. but this is what we all hve to go on:
It seems as though the guy may have some kind of mental/developmental disability. He doesn't drive himself- he's always driven by a woman, who sometimes is in scrubs, so my guess would be some kind of a caretaker. And it sounds like he may live in some type of group home. My guess would be that he's in his late 30s.
i'm dying over here that this gives any of you basis to walk up to mystery girl, in front of the dude, to gently inquire as to whether the dude has mentl capacity issues that would interfere with him choosig to get a tattoo.
like, how does that convo start exactly? i'm embarassed!
Would it be that weird to casually start a conversation with this person? I mean, she's either family/friend, or a professional caretaker. Either way, chatting with her and mentioning this doesn't seem like a big deal.
Ask him. He's an adult, no? Why would anyone think it's OK to question this woman, behind his back, instead of him?
If your DH is friendly with him, he could offer him a lift home and get to know him better.
Maybe he does have some disability or difference, but that wouldn't necessarily impact his soundness to make a decision regarding a tattoo. What do you mean by "mental capacity"? IQ, cognition, executive function, maturity? I would guess that if he was so impaired that he would require a guardian or conservator for a tattoo, he would not be attending an evening bowling league without a caregiver of some sort.
I can think of any number of reasons why he might not drive- DUI and loss of license, perhaps he lives in a recovery house, maybe he has seizures and can't get medically cleared to drive.
Who said anything about doing it behind the man's back? I was very clear about talking to the caregiver with the man's knowledge.
You said this:
Then to the driver your husband could say something like, "I've been hanging out with (name), and can you believe he wants a tattoo just like mine?" See where the conversation goes.
Subtle. It just feels like a violation of his privacy to approach the woman in scrubs . It could even be a HIPAA violation depending on her role if she is, in fact, an agency employee.
I get that repercussions in your house would be different than for some people. At least I only have to live with my kid's hideous facial hair.
They're friends-just starting a friendship, it sounds like. It's not prodding if he asked about the tattoo?? No need to act weird about it. I feel like this is the Twilight Zone. Ask him or his friend that drops him off. It doesn't have to be any more or less than that.
but why the friend? why would anyone circumvent the original friendship to ask the mystery friend?
lol, twilight zone indeed.
Huh? I said talk to him. The friend can be included in the convo b/c she's there in the place they talk. I thought you said to drop it completely and not even talk to the guy?
Who said anything about doing it behind the man's back? I was very clear about talking to the caregiver with the man's knowledge.
but why not just ask the man?
/head explosion
From my original post:
You don't have to be shy about it; let him in on the conversation and treat him as an adult.
"Hey, I'd like to get to know you better. Who is it that brings you here?" Then to the driver your husband could say something like, "I've been hanging out with (name), and can you believe he wants a tattoo just like mine?" See where the conversation goes.
Include the man, find out who the driver is and her relationship to him, then, *if appropriate*, bring the tattoo up to the driver in context
Huh? I said talk to him. The friend can be included in the convo b/c she's there in the place they talk. I thought you said to drop it completely and not even talk to the guy?
I might need to go nap. Too much thinking...
you said, 'ask him or his friend'. this guy isn't non-verbal. he presumably can go out unaccompanied. no one needs to be asking his mystery friend what's up. you don't do that.
Isn't she sitting in the bowling alley with them??
Would it be that weird to casually start a conversation with this person? I mean, she's either family/friend, or a professional caretaker. Either way, chatting with her and mentioning this doesn't seem like a big deal.
why can't this casual conversation occur with the friend?
I would bring it up when him and the mystery lady were together.
I just don't get the big deal in introducing myself, having a chat and mentioning this.
Post by snipsnsnails on Jul 16, 2015 14:22:27 GMT -5
I'm picturing in my mind a bunch of friends hanging out at Tuesday night bowling league talking about football and tattoos. Did I miss where the friend drives him and peaces out? If you bring it up, she'd hear you bring it up b/c, uhh, she's there.
I think it's safe to say there are too many assumptions in the thread, so I'll peace out.
But it's a tattoo. On the scale of seriousness from 1. petting a puppy to 10. a lebotomy, I think getting a tattoo probably comes in at a 2.5. It's not like we're talking about a face tattoo or a tattoo with giant naked boobs.
Post by Captain Serious on Jul 16, 2015 14:26:28 GMT -5
I just find it interesting that most the people in this thread who have family members with intellectual disabilities or severe mental delays have spoken up agreeing that they would appreciate it if the OP's husband found out a little more before taking him to get a tattoo.
I just find it interesting that most the people in this thread who have family members with intellectual disabilities or severe mental delays have spoken up agreeing that they would appreciate it if the OP's husband found out a little more before taking him to get a tattoo.
I think you are missing the point.
People are trying to say that we don't know if this man is disabled or what his IQ is or what "permission" he has.
Just treat him like a regular friend and go from there. No need to go up and question the possible caregiver who could just be a family member. The man might not be disabled.
Now if they were long time friends and OP knew all the history, it would make sense to get "permission." But that's not what's going on, so no need to make it all complicated.
Just give him the info of the tattoo place or take a pic and call it a day.
I just find it interesting that most the people in this thread who have family members with intellectual disabilities or severe mental delays have spoken up agreeing that they would appreciate it if the OP's husband found out a little more before taking him to get a tattoo.
I find it interesting that you continue to miss the point. Exhausting is probably a better word. I would give him the artists name, end of story. There is no need to make this into a thing.
Which is fine. But others are saying they would do more, and I am dividing that with them.
I just find it interesting that most the people in this thread who have family members with intellectual disabilities or severe mental delays have spoken up agreeing that they would appreciate it if the OP's husband found out a little more before taking him to get a tattoo.
So now this guy is assumed to have severe mental delays?
I get why you want your voice to be heard above all others in this conversation, but you're doubling down here based on your assumptions. Back up a half step and consider that if your assumptions are wrong, then the advice you're giving isn't good.
And I get that people think that Rak is making this assumption based on just the fact that someone drives him to his bowling night. From the OP, I got the feeling that they had suspicious of his delays aside from that and prior to this one incident, which is what I am basing my response on.