H has befriended a guy in our bowling league. It seems as though the guy may have some kind of mental/developmental disability. He doesn't drive himself- he's always driven by a woman, who sometimes is in scrubs, so my guess would be some kind of a caretaker. And it sounds like he may live in some type of group home. My guess would be that he's in his late 30s.
Anyway, he told h he wants a Ravens tattoo like h has, and asked him where he got it done, and if h would go with him to talk to the tattoo artist.
I guess the part I maybe feel weird about is, like, how would we know if he has, um, the mental capacity (I guess?) to make this type of decision? Am I an ass for even questioning this?
Yeah not your place to be concerned. Obviously he has caretakers, if your that concerned have your H meet him at the tattoo place and his caretaker can have input if needed.
Post by revolution on Jul 16, 2015 12:02:52 GMT -5
Do you ever get a chance to chat with the nurse lady? Could you say "hey are you dude's sister? I'm Rak". and then you can find out if this lady is a caretaker or family and go from there.
I understand your concern. I'd try to talk to the driver lady one day, although if she is a paid caretaker she may not be able to say much about his condition (if he does have any disabilities).
Does your husband know anything more about him?
I just wouldn't pursue the tattoo thing. I'd let someone else coordinate getting him there.
I understand your concern. I'd try to talk to the driver lady one day, although if she is a paid caretaker she may not be able to say much about his condition (if he does have any disabilities).
Does your husband know anything more about him?
I just wouldn't pursue the tattoo thing. I'd let someone else coordinate getting him there.
why do you understand her concern? I dont' get it. Why are you concerned? its not your business and if he wants a tattoo he is a 30 something year old adult. I don't get it.
If I don't need to be concerned, and it's none of my business, then that is great. I certainly wasn't trying to be offensive, and I apologize if anyone is offended.
Post by Captain Serious on Jul 16, 2015 12:27:07 GMT -5
Not a silly question. As an adaptive ski instructor, I work with adults with disabilities and completely understand where you are coming from.
I would not agree to take him for a tattoo without getting to know him and his situation better. Talk to the woman who drives him. You don't have to be shy about it; let him in on the conversation and treat him as an adult.
"Hey, I'd like to get to know you better. Who is it that brings you here?" Then to the driver your husband could say something like, "I've been hanging out with (name), and can you believe he wants a tattoo just like mine?" See where the conversation goes.
Only after you have a better read on the situation will you have the information to know how to best approach it. In the meantime, if he brings up wanting your husband to go get a tattoo with/for him, he could simply say tattoos should not be impulse decisions and he wants to give him time to think about it first.
Post by Captain Serious on Jul 16, 2015 12:30:14 GMT -5
Also, as the mom of a child with a mental disorder, I would appreciate if someone took the time to get a better read on the situation rather than just taking him to get a tattoo even when he is an adult.
It's not to deny the person of personal choice, it's too make sure that the decision has been completely thought through and the consequences are fully understood.
Also, as the mom of a child with a mental disorder, I would appreciate if someone took the time to get a better read on the situation rather than just taking him to get a tattoo even when he is an adult.
Yes, if this were a question about a child I would agree. But I disagree because this is an adult.
Just because someone who wears scrubs drops him off at bowling doesn't mean that that person has any more right to make the decision for him. Scrubs =/= consent. I think in this case it would be inappropriate to seek out the person who drops him off to discuss him.
Not a silly question. As an adaptive ski instructor, I work with adults with disabilities and completely understand where you are coming from.
I would not agree to take him for a tattoo without getting to know him and his situation better. Talk to the woman who drives him. You don't have to be shy about it; let him in on the conversation and treat him as an adult.
"Hey, I'd like to get to know you better. Who is it that brings you here?" Then to the driver your husband could say something like, "I've been hanging out with (name), and can you believe he wants a tattoo just like mine?" See where the conversation goes.
Only after you have a better read on the situation will you have the information to know how to best approach it. In the meantime, if he brings up wanting your husband to go get a tattoo with/for him, he could simply say tattoos should not be impulse decisions and he wants to give him time to think about it first.
This man does not need permission, approval or the "ok" from the OP or her husband to make a choice about his own body.
Again, it's not about permission. It's about not facilitating the process of him getting something that is almost permanent without making sure he has the mental capacity to understand the full consequences of his decision first.
If he really is living in a group home, he may be under legal guardianship. This is the kind of thing that the OP's husband should determine before agreeing to be his ride/support/mouthpiece in getting a tattoo.
Also, as the mom of a child with a mental disorder, I would appreciate if someone took the time to get a better read on the situation rather than just taking him to get a tattoo even when he is an adult.
Yes, if this were a question about a child I would agree. But I disagree because this is an adult.
Just because someone who wears scrubs drops him off at bowling doesn't mean that that person has any more right to make the decision for him. Scrubs =/= consent. I think in this case it would be inappropriate to seek out the person who drops him off to discuss him.
A person like my child may never have full legal rights to determine medical, financial, and other legal decisions regardless of his age. In a situation in which you suspect mental disorder, it is not inappropriate to confirm that the individual has the capacity to make these types of decisions for himself before participating in them.
Again, it's not about permission. It's about not facilitating the process of him getting something that is almost permanent without making sure he has the mental capacity to understand the full rankings of his decision first.
If he really is living in s group home, he may be under legal guardianship. This is the kind of thing that the OPs husband should determine before agreeing to be his ride/support/mouthpiece in getting a tattoo.
Neither the OP nor her husband are medical professionals, they have no idea of this man's mental capacity from a medical/professional standpoint.
It is not their place to take on "facilitating" his choice to get a tattoo on his own body.
But that is exactly what he is asking. That her husband not only bring him, but also do all the talking to get him the tattoo he wants.
If they have decided he isn't capable then they can just say "sorry, too busy to go with you" or whatever, but honestly, it's pretty gross to decide he doesn't have the mental capacity based on the fact that he can't drive.
This isn't based just on his but driving. Did you miss the part about it sounding like he lives in a group home?
And in pretty sure that is exactly what she's asking: how to know if this is something they should help with or not.
Post by Captain Serious on Jul 16, 2015 12:55:03 GMT -5
Stop being obtuse. I didn't ever say that he should be allowed to get a tattoo. Just that it may help to know if he has the capacity to make the decision on his own.
Even if he is under guardianship or someone's care, then a conversation can happen and a decision can be made. But this isn't the mind of thing I would rush into without first knowing more about the situation. That's all I said, and I will stand by it.
If I don't need to be concerned, and it's none of my business, then that is great. I certainly wasn't trying to be offensive, and I apologize if anyone is offended.
It is a bit offensive to assume he doesn't have the ability to make this decision, he is of age and if he is deemed non-competent by the courts it's not your business, let his caregiver deal with it. Those with developmental or mental challenges deserve as much independence as they can safely have, getting a tattoo is not dangerous (assuming it's a safe parlor) and if he wants one he should be able to get one.
I know your question is from a well intentioned place but just leave it to those who know him to address whether this is an appropriate decision for him to make they know his situation best and he may be perfectly able to make this decision and be very happy with it.
Post by floridakat on Jul 16, 2015 12:57:31 GMT -5
I'm surprised by the responses in here. I think Raki has a perfectly legitimate question; in the same situation, I would want to know more about the situation before taking this guy to get a tattoo.
This isn't based just on his but driving. Did you miss the part about it sounding like he lives in a group home?
Well then they would be in the know about his whereabouts and probably wouldn't just let him go off with a stranger to get a tattoo.
Not necessarily so. Some "group homes" are not restrictive at all and asked for a lot of independence. Two people with an intellectual disability can live in an apartment together, a social worker comes over a week to check on things, they have financial oversight and social workers who go to medical appointments with them. That kind of living arrangement of classified as a group home.
Post by badtzmaru22 on Jul 16, 2015 13:02:46 GMT -5
Just handle it they way you'd handle any other conversation. If some 30 year old person whom you did not suspect had a disability asked you where you got a tattoo, and can you go with him to talk to the artist, you would probably just tell him who the artist is, or a place you'd recommend, right? Just say you're happy to give him the info, but you can't give him a ride.
Not necessarily so. Some "group homes" are not restrictive at all and asked for a lot of independence. Two people with an intellectual disability can live in an apartment together, a social worker comes over a week to check on things, they have financial oversight and social workers who go to medical appointments with them. That kind of living arrangement of classified as a group home.
Then they obviously think those people are independent enough to make their own decisions.
Again, no. In this situation, financial, legal, and medical decisions ask have oversight.
I'm surprised by the responses in here. I think Raki has a perfectly legitimate question; in the same situation, I would want to know more about the situation before taking this guy to get a tattoo.
all we're saying is she shouldn't be making assumptions, best way to handle it is loop in the care giver and let them judge. Certain challenges might well mean impulsivity may have him making a decision he will regret in a day others he may well be of just of sound mind as an 18 yr old in which case he has every right to get a tattoo he may or may not regret. Many with autism struggle with driving and live in group homes but developmentally are perfectly capable of deciding to get a tattoo in their late 30s (most would be developmentally 18 or older by that point). Those with developmental challenges often have much of their personal autonomy taken from them out of necessity and are often treated as children long past the time that is appropriate. He is a grown man and should be respected as such.
Not necessarily so. Some "group homes" are not restrictive at all and asked for a lot of independence. Two people with an intellectual disability can live in an apartment together, a social worker comes over a week to check on things, they have financial oversight and social workers who go to medical appointments with them. That kind of living arrangement of classified as a group home.
I know what group homes are, thank you. If he is deemed able to live without constant supervision than he could probably make this decision on his own, what's stopping him? If he's in a more restrictive group home, then he's not. I, personally, would not take this guy to get one, but I also wouldn't investigate his disability status.
So, you would decide against involvement. All in saying is, if they want to help/be involved, they should find out more before doing so.
I'm surprised by the responses in here. I think Raki has a perfectly legitimate question; in the same situation, I would want to know more about the situation before taking this guy to get a tattoo.
Even if rak's H drove this guy to get a tattoo, the guy still has to pay for it himself and sign the consent forms.
And if the guy really has some caretaker/guardian, I doubt they'd even let rak's H take off with the dude.
Raki's not asking if he SHOULD be able to get a tattoo. She's asking if she should learn a little bit more before her H becomes involved in helping the guy acquire one. Those are two very different things.
And lol that drunk college kids can get tattoos on a whim, but this guy needs to be put through rigorous standards of testing his mental capability to make the same choice.
If he can go on his own, he's welcome to have at it. But he's asking for help because he, presumably, needs it.
I'm surprised by the responses in here. I think Raki has a perfectly legitimate question; in the same situation, I would want to know more about the situation before taking this guy to get a tattoo.
all we're saying is she shouldn't be making assumptions, best way to handle it is loop in the care giver and let them judge. Certain challenges might well mean impulsivity may have him making a decision he will regret in a day others he may well be of just of sound mind as an 18 yr old in which case he has every right to get a tattoo he may or may not regret. Many with autism struggle with driving and live in group homes but developmentally are perfectly capable of deciding to get a tattoo in their late 30s (most would be developmentally 18 or older by that point). Those with developmental challenges often have much of their personal autonomy taken from them out of necessity and are often treated as children long past the time that is appropriate. He is a grown man and should be respected as such.
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I was responding to all the posters who were basically accusing her of being an asshole for even asking the question.
If he can go on his own, he's welcome to have at it. But he's asking for help because he, presumably, needs it.
Rr because he wants to use the same artist because he likes that specific tattoo.
this is not weird, people do this all.the.time
Yep my totally Neurotypical brother did this. he liked an element of a friend's tattoo so he asked the guy where he got it and had him go with to show the artist what he wanted to make sure that it was conveyed well and he got the tattoo he wanted.
all we're saying is she shouldn't be making assumptions, best way to handle it is loop in the care giver and let them judge. Certain challenges might well mean impulsivity may have him making a decision he will regret in a day others he may well be of just of sound mind as an 18 yr old in which case he has every right to get a tattoo he may or may not regret. Many with autism struggle with driving and live in group homes but developmentally are perfectly capable of deciding to get a tattoo in their late 30s (most would be developmentally 18 or older by that point). Those with developmental challenges often have much of their personal autonomy taken from them out of necessity and are often treated as children long past the time that is appropriate. He is a grown man and should be respected as such.
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I was responding to all the posters who were basically accusing her of being an asshole for even asking the question.
And all the posters that said it's inappropriate to talk to the caregiver, which is what I suggested.