Cream, I understand why you posted, and I think it was prudent bc you know the rest of GBCN would come down on our ass if (when) they found out she'd been posting and nobody had said anything. MMM is already down on us because we are too "moneyed," which I assume means buy too many nauseating J&J outfits for our children.
Agreed.
I'd like to add an lol at mmm.
Every single piece of Janie and Jack stuff that I have bought for the boys has been less than $10. I only shop sales. That's a mm win. Fancy sale rack shopper over here.
Cream, I understand why you posted, and I think it was prudent bc you know the rest of GBCN would come down on our ass if (when) they found out she'd been posting and nobody had said anything. MMM is already down on us because we are too "moneyed," which I assume means buy too many nauseating J&J outfits for our children.
I think Betty's post in ML is appropriate here. Obviously not the part about other ML posters isn't relevant.
I'm actually not comfortable with any level of bigot. I hope what I've posted in this thread isn't implying that I am.
I just don't know how we can prevent someone from posting, or run them off when they have left and come back to ML many times.
I won't be rolling out a red carpet either, I'll most likely just ignore her posts.
It's not because I agree with or tolerate her views, its not passive tolerance. Its because people have tried to get her to see another side for years and she will not budge. There is no point.
Post by ninjabridemom on Aug 6, 2015 8:55:15 GMT -5
Look, in another board I post on, there is a lot of hard work done wrt racial/feminist/lgbtqia+ issues. There is a lot of admitting wrong and listening and learning. I don't see that from Stellas. And I am glad people have and continue to speak up and try to educate her. And express frustration when that doesn't work.
But this whole "silent until given permission to speak up" and bandwagoning thing is weird and a little mean to me. It happened hugely in the ML threads and I'm seeing a little bit here. If some of this info is new to you, fine. A lot of what Stellas said is problematic and damaging and hurtful. But I just can't see anything anyone doing justifying the level of response given (mostly on ML). Redundancy is cruel.
So that's all I have to say. I don't excuse her at all but like Tamb I am friends with a lot of people who I disagree fundamentally with on a lot of issues. The level of friendships vary. I just don't like the mass pileon and think it is very mean girl, cyber bullying. And if we are trying to be BETTER then let's be better and rise above what you think she stands for.
Look, in another board I post on, there is a lot of hard work done wrt racial/feminist/lgbtqia+ issues. There is a lot of admitting wrong and listening and learning. I don't see that from Stellas. And I am glad people have and continue to speak up and try to educate her. And express frustration when that doesn't work.
But this whole "silent until given permission to speak up" and bandwagoning thing is weird and a little mean to me. It happened hugely in the ML threads and I'm seeing a little bit here. If some of this info is new to you, fine. A lot of what Stellas said is problematic and damaging and hurtful. But I just can't see anything anyone doing justifying the level of response given (mostly on ML). Redundancy is cruel.
So that's all I have to say. I don't excuse her at all but like Tamb I am friends with a lot of people who I disagree fundamentally with on a lot of issues. The level of friendships vary. I just don't like the mass pileon and think it is very mean girl, cyber bullying. And if we are trying to be BETTER then let's be better and rise above what you think she stands for.
I agree with this. It feels a little harsh to me that now all these people who don't even know her are out there with pitchforks. I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with her posting, but, like ninja said, the mass pile on is making me feel uneasy.
Look, in another board I post on, there is a lot of hard work done wrt racial/feminist/lgbtqia+ issues. There is a lot of admitting wrong and listening and learning. I don't see that from Stellas. And I am glad people have and continue to speak up and try to educate her. And express frustration when that doesn't work.
But this whole "silent until given permission to speak up" and bandwagoning thing is weird and a little mean to me. It happened hugely in the ML threads and I'm seeing a little bit here. If some of this info is new to you, fine. A lot of what Stellas said is problematic and damaging and hurtful. But I just can't see anything anyone doing justifying the level of response given (mostly on ML). Redundancy is cruel.
So that's all I have to say. I don't excuse her at all but like Tamb I am friends with a lot of people who I disagree fundamentally with on a lot of issues. The level of friendships vary. I just don't like the mass pileon and think it is very mean girl, cyber bullying. And if we are trying to be BETTER then let's be better and rise above what you think she stands for.
I agree with this. It feels a little harsh to me that now all these people who don't even know her are out there with pitchforks. I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with her posting, but, like ninja said, the mass pile on is making me feel uneasy.
If Betty is intimidated by Pagas, she might be the only one. lol
But yes, she does make some good points. I hope people aren't resting too comfortably on their laurels after rousting one of the more outspoken among us. I hope we can continue to examine our own thoughts and prejudices, conscious or subconscious as they may be.
I agree with this. It feels a little harsh to me that now all these people who don't even know her are out there with pitchforks. I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with her posting, but, like ninja said, the mass pile on is making me feel uneasy.
Were you equally uncomfortable when it was Gisa, or, Ouiser, or Dolci being piled on? I don't need to know more about her than what she's posted.At least one of those links I posted are from a few weeks ago. Are we supposed to wait around for her to say something offensive here before we can legitimately have an issue with her posting here?
I agree with this. It feels a little harsh to me that now all these people who don't even know her are out there with pitchforks. I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with her posting, but, like ninja said, the mass pile on is making me feel uneasy.
Were you equally uncomfortable when it was Gisa, or, Ouiser, or Dolci being piled on? I don't need to know more about her than what she's posted.At least one of those links I posted are from a few weeks ago. Are we supposed to wait around for her to say something offensive here before we can legitimately have an issue with her posting here?
I don't really want to argue because I don't disagree with you, but...kind of? Our board "knew" those people. It just feels a little like bullying that we are going to ban someone from participating here when as far as this board goes she has only talked about baby clothes. I was anticipating this issue coming up if she started posting more in the "big threads" here, and I completely understand the reason for this thread, it just feels a little off to me the way it's going down. Just that posters here who have never heard of Stellas are being shown all the reasons to dislike her.
I agree with this. It feels a little harsh to me that now all these people who don't even know her are out there with pitchforks. I don't blame people for being uncomfortable with her posting, but, like ninja said, the mass pile on is making me feel uneasy.
Were you equally uncomfortable when it was Gisa, or, Ouiser, or Dolci being piled on? I don't need to know more about her than what she's posted.At least one of those links I posted are from a few weeks ago. Are we supposed to wait around for her to say something offensive here before we can legitimately have an issue with her posting here?
I don't know what happened w those peeps but yes, all pile ons feel shitty.
I don't really know what I think about this, so I've avoided commenting. I'm always uncomfortable with pile-ons, especially those that do nothing more than push people down. I admit, I commented in a couple of those recent threads, but tried to keep my comments relevant and kind.
On one hand, I have a significant discomfort with tolerating racist and bigoted comments, but what we're talking about isn't tolerating the comments. It's tolerating the person making them. And the person making them is a person, not a caricature behind a screen. It's easy to write someone off as ignorant, unwilling to learn, etc. when you don't see them as someone.
On the other hand, have we all always been this enlightened? When I think about the viewpoints I left college with and started grad school with, I cringe. I know I offended people, that I was unconsciously bigoted because I had never been expected to reach beyond my self-contented points of view. It took a while in school for me to "come out of the cave," so to speak.
Some people take longer than others to learn or even soften to the point where they're willing to consider what's in front of them. Unless someone is being deliberately cruel or only makes posts to get people all heated, I'm not willing to write them off.
Were you equally uncomfortable when it was Gisa, or, Ouiser, or Dolci being piled on? I don't need to know more about her than what she's posted.At least one of those links I posted are from a few weeks ago. Are we supposed to wait around for her to say something offensive here before we can legitimately have an issue with her posting here?
I don't really want to argue because I don't disagree with you, but...kind of? Our board "knew" those people. It just feels a little like bullying that we are going to ban someone from participating here when as far as this board goes she has only talked about baby clothes. I was anticipating this issue coming up if she started posting more in the "big threads" here, and I completely understand the reason for this thread, it just feels a little off to me the way it's going down. Just that posters here who have never heard of Stellas are being shown all the reasons to dislike her.
A quick glance at her post history shows that she was in the last week's UO, fffc, and spaghetticat's thread about her pool experience. Hardly seems like she's limiting herself to clothing talk. I obviously can't stop her from posting, but I sure as shit can limit my exposure to her. And I fully intend to do that.
TrudyCampbell and rjamz, I get where you are coming from. Usually I'd be right there with you, but I just can't this time. Generally I think it's ridiculous to pin people down to their past statements-- folks should be given the opportunity to grow and evolve, and just because someone said something false, inelegant, heck, even harmful in the past is no reason to polish the pitchforks. We'd all just be talking to ourselves if that was the case. However, I just can't with this. A lot of stellas posts just sound too familiar. I grew up around attitudes like that. I've spent so much time trying to educate and discuss and counter and broaden viewpoints. I'm totally cool with it, but when a person just refuses to budge, well, I have my limits. And selfishly I like what we have going on in this board. It's a kind, nurturing community where we all support each other, despite our differences and disagreements. I don't find it fun or entertaining when we have board-rocking drama, and I respect the established members of our community too much to be ok with hurtful opinions being expressed here. I can't stop stellas from posting, but I can stand up and say I'd prefer she didn't.
TrudyCampbell and rjamz, I get where you are coming from. Usually I'd be right there with you, but I just can't this time. Generally I think it's ridiculous to pin people down to their past statements-- folks should be given the opportunity to grow and evolve, and just because someone said something false, inelegant, heck, even harmful in the past is no reason to polish the pitchforks. We'd all just be talking to ourselves if that was the case. However, I just can't with this. A lot of stellas posts just sound too familiar. I grew up around attitudes like that. I've spent so much time trying to educate and discuss and counter and broaden viewpoints. I'm totally cool with it, but when a person just refuses to budge, well, I have my limits. And selfishly I like what we have going on in this board. It's a kind, nurturing community where we all support each other, despite our differences and disagreements. I don't find it fun or entertaining when we have board-rocking drama, and I respect the established members of our community too much to be ok with hurtful opinions being expressed here. I can't stop stellas from posting, but I can stand up and say I'd prefer she didn't.
I'm not saying I like anything she says or even really want her posting here, but it seems to me like this thread came out of nowhere (aside from whatever was going on on ML). It was like a preemptive strike and if you know her past and what she's said, then people should be able to block her and that's their decision, but I just don't like the way this was done.
@namnerl thank you. I'd be lying if I said my feelings aren't a little hurt right now. I' have a hard time expressing it written form, but yeah.
ouiser was roundly criticized for something her FI said, Gisa'a stuff didn't affect anyone except her own family, but you know anyone who has a problem with Stellas. Ehh, can't you just block her. With that said, I'm done with this thread.
Post by EnchantedSoul on Aug 6, 2015 10:00:14 GMT -5
Can we not be complacent with racist bigots posting on this board? I've been privy to enough of Stellas views to feel completely uncomfortable with harboring her here. She can post here all she wants and you all can continue to welcome and engage her. I will not. Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
My heart is hurt that there is a lot of hurt going around.
This whole thing makes me uncomfortable - from the posts that were posted, to things that were said to her that had nothing to do with what she posted, to the massive pile ons across multiple boards , to women turning on each other in a very catty and cruel manner and now our board....
Can we not be complacent with racist bigots posting on this board? I've been privy to enough of Stellas views to feel completely uncomfortable with harboring her here. She can post here all she wants and you all can continue to welcome and engage her. I will not. Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
Hot damn!! Feisty S is here, and I for one am all the way here for it.
Can we not be complacent with racist bigots posting on this board? I've been privy to enough of Stellas views to feel completely uncomfortable with harboring her here. She can post here all she wants and you all can continue to welcome and engage her. I will not. Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
I feel like maybe I'm expressing myself wrong - you know that I'm not ok with bigots in any shape or form. I don't want her posting here, I just didn't like the way this post was done. For me, my issue isn't about not wanting her here, it's about how things were expressed. Does that make sense?
Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
This is why I'm torn. Because while I think it's a good idea to keep engaging and talking in the hopes of changing people's minds, so long as the discussion is civil, I also know I'm not the one personally affected by her comments and there are people I care about who are. It's enough to give me pause and question whether it's worth it.
Post by TrudyCampbell on Aug 6, 2015 10:05:34 GMT -5
I shouldn't have ever responded here because I didn't want to hurt any feelings of my friends on this board. I just didn't feel fully comfortable with the way this went down and I'm not doing a great job with articulating that. skwcm80
Can we not be complacent with racist bigots posting on this board? I've been privy to enough of Stellas views to feel completely uncomfortable with harboring her here. She can post here all she wants and you all can continue to welcome and engage her. I will not. Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
I feel like maybe I'm expressing myself wrong - you know that I'm not ok with bigots in any shape or form. I don't want her posting here, I just didn't like the way this post was done. For me, my issue isn't about not wanting her here, it's about how things were expressed. Does that make sense?
Yes, this is how I feel. I am not and never was defending the offensive things she said.
Can we not be complacent with racist bigots posting on this board? I've been privy to enough of Stellas views to feel completely uncomfortable with harboring her here. She can post here all she wants and you all can continue to welcome and engage her. I will not. Furthermore, since there are only TWO regular posting Black folks, it's ok for us to just keep moving along like there's nothing to see here because her views clearly don't affect the majority.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
It's actually not even the OP I have an "issue" with. Yes, I do think we have the right to police our space. Yes I think we need to listen to POC about what makes them uncomfortable and feel angry etc. precisely because there are only 2 regular posters OC. I am working on listening more than talking. I'm not even talking about protecting Stellas' "right" to post here, or asking others just to block (I agree, that is a trite solution to a big problem).
But the gifs of "buh bye" etc just seem superfluous and unnecessary. Especially considering the massive pile on from before. I think there's a difference between deciding we are done educating and policing our space, and being cruel.
And I actually can't claim this space since I rarely post here but it feels more and more comfy than ML so.
Some folks need to ask themselves why they're all up in this thread with hella shit to say but couldn't so much as hit a like button when we have threads discussing race. Yeahhhhh I see it.
I'm not sure if I'm wrong to assume this is directed at me, but just because I may not have participated in race discussion threads didn't mean I wasn't reading and learning. My lack of "likes" in a thread does not mean I'm complacent with racist bigots and I didn't know I was being judged by my silence. I'm sorry if I've offended you and others in this thread as that was far from my intention.
Post by EnchantedSoul on Aug 6, 2015 10:23:53 GMT -5
Let me tell you all how I feel right now. Right now, I feel like a friend brought light to our board about a new (to April 12) poster. She knew that there were people here who would be offended and hurt by the things that the new poster spouts (regularly). So, this friend went ahead and made her uncomfortableness known before any shit could go down. Now, this may not have been the way YOU (the collective you) would have done things (and I seriously question if many others would have done anything) but *I* appreciate creamsiclechica for looking out for us.
What I'm feeling is that because some of you like stellas, our feelings about how she sees US (board regulars, no less) are irrelevant. It certainly feels like our "friends" could not care less how bad that hurts. And now the hurt is posting on our board and you all are all fuck it, just block her. Get over your blackness and CONTINUE to turn a blind eye because we can't be bothered to have our feathers ruffled.
So, thanks for making me feel welcome on my own home fucking board. I don't care what your initial intentions were, I don't care how you feel about the way this shit went down. These are my mother fucking feelings and I'm owning them. This right here is some serious bullshit. But by all means, welcome to April 12 stellas.
Post by ninjabridemom on Aug 6, 2015 10:26:30 GMT -5
"What I'm feeling is that because some of you like stellas, our feelings about how she sees US (board regulars, no less) are irrelevant. It certainly feels like our "friends" could not care less how bad that hurts. And now the hurt is posting on our board and you all are all fuck it, just block her. Get over your blackness and CONTINUE to turn a blind eye because we can't be bothered to have our feathers ruffled."
I must not be articulating myself well b/c this is so far off from what I meant at all. So I'm going to bow out and listen more.
I'm truly sorry I hurt you Enchanted and I do hope that we continue to police our space for the sake of everyone, not just a majority based on any facet.