Article: Microaggression & Messages They Send

[southernbelle]

Jan 26, 2016 12:18:06 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

That seems like a great list. For the most part, all of those seemed clear to me how they would be micro aggressions. I struggle more with some comments, in context. For example, when meeting someone new at a function I would typically ask where they were from and it would start a conversation and we could talk a little about ourselves. I'm primarily surrounded by white middle/upper class, so no problem. But then does this mean that it's never okay to ask a POC where they are from because of the concern that I might mean they don't belong?

I think tone of voice/facial expressions makes a big difference. I had a strong country accent growing up and there were several instances I was asked this where the person had just an awful tone. It became more a question of whether I was intelligent.

[katlizabeth]

Jan 26, 2016 16:51:37 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

Very interesting. I really appreciate the "message" column to drive it home. So many that I would have never thought about.

I think I was most surprised by "the melting pot". I say that quite regularly for the area I am in, and TBH I still don't 100% understand why/how it's bad. If I'm using it to describe my area and explain that there are a lot of people from different countries and backgrounds, is that as bad? Note- not trying to say it's not. Asking a sincere question so I can make sure I stop if it will offend anyone!

I think the term melting pot assumes that everyone should melt into the dominant culture, which can imply that other cultures should not be retained. I was taught "salad bowl" in college-like a mixture of different cultures living together, but not melting into one. not sure if this is a completely better visual or not.

[bananapancakes]

Thanks for sharing this. It was a very enlightening read. I know I sometimes butcher the names of a few my students that I see infrequently and I have got to get better at it.

[greycat]

Jan 26, 2016 13:08:48 GMT -5 @marshmallows said:

Thanks for posting. I have asked people about their nationality as a way of showing interest I their background, but now I see how it can be perceived differently. I learned something today, and I'm grateful for this discourse.

I'm guilty of this as well. Thanks for posting.

[wanderlustmom]

Thank you. It was really interesting. My biggest problem is getting Asian names correct. These aren't close friends--parents of my kids friends--and it sometimes takes a lot of practice to get their name correct. I feel terrible that it takes me so long. If it's a friend, I have context and it's easier

[matildasun]

I worry about the name one a lot. I am not an auditory learner, so your name could be Jane and if you tell me and I don't read it at the same time, chances are I won't remember. Things I hear just don't stick without visual cues. This makes me self conscious and awkward around new people in general, but especially around people who have more ethnic or unusual names, because I am aware it comes across as a micro aggression, but I feel like explaining and saying I need to see it in writing can also be seen as offensive.

[Deleted]

That is a great chart, thank you.

A really crappy thing happened on the next block over from me last summer which I thought I would share here as an example.  My neighborhood is very diverse and somewhat transient as there are more rentals than owner occupied homes. The street adjacent to mine are overwhelmingly single family as opposed to rentals so there's a ton of people who have lived there for a long time and are really active in organizing community events, getting to know all the neighbors etc.  A couple bought a house on that street and were being welcomed by a neighbor who said "you should meet the Jones family." Turns out the Jones family was the only other black family on the street.    The end result, I think, was positive because the neighbor and others didn't realize how his comments came across until he was called on it.

[patbutcher]

Jan 26, 2016 12:07:50 GMT -5 nessness said:

Thanks for sharing. There were some things on the list where I was like "why would anyone think that's okay to say?!?!" and others where I had to think about it a little, because I didn't immediately see what was wrong with it.

DH is black and early in our relationship I used to really downplay his fears that someone wouldn't or didn't like him because of his race, mostly because I was trying to reassure him (like, "of course she's going to like you!"), but I've since realized that's the wrong way to respond.

Can I ask a question about something on this list? Is it still a microagression to ask someone where they're from if the question is prompted by their accent and not their appearance? I can think of two times I've asked this recently. Both people were white and raised in other countries and neither seemed offended, but I'd hate to be inadvertently offending people.

I don't know about microagression but it's really annoying when people constantly ask about my accent and then seem to not be able to focus on what I'm saying rather than the way I'm saying it. I've even had someone repeat everything I say parrot style until I just gave up.

I think it's cool to ask about an accent further into a conversation but so many times I start speaking and am either interrupted or the first thing they respond with is " what is your accent? Where are you from? Sometimes you just want to be a person and not a novelty.

[oregonpachey]

Thank you for this. I will be much more mindful going forward. I know I have asked co-workers in the past where they are from and now I understand that might be inappropriate.

[rupertpenny]

My dad is an immigrant to the US and I grew up with a very foreign looking/sounding name and got all the stuff in the first box ALL THE TIME. It is better now since I took my H's WASPy name when we got married, but the "where are you from? But where are you REALLY from?" and correcting everyone about the pronunciation of my name all the time was so exhausting. I still get shit about my first name occasionally, but it is rarer. And Frozen has helped, since my name is Anna and pronounced like Anna in the movie. Even that has caused issues though. The (white, male, Australian) teacher of a yoga class I took a few weeks ago tried to convince me I say my name wrong, then told me how hilarious it was that all of the Chinese kids in the kindergarten class he teaches say Princess Anna's name wrong because they say it like I do (he had never actually seen Frozen). Like, haha, look at all these dumb Chinese kids! They can't speak English properly and I'm just going to laugh at them while telling you, a native English speaker, that you also can't pronounce your own name properly! To say that that particular yoga class was less than relaxing would be an understatement, haha.

Because I'm currently an ex-pat I meet a lot of people from a lot of places. My policy is to never assume where anyone is from and to let them tell me if they think it is important.

Anyway, I'm exceedingly lucky to not have to deal with any of the other bullshit in that chart personally.

[kaycee]

This is a great article.

I have had a lot of these things said to me. "What are you?" "Can I touch your hair?" "Where did you buy your hair?" And more. My husband and I have been followed in stores before. I can tell you it doesn't feel good, but I also acknowledge that I have no idea what it would feel like to have this be every day of your life because I am not a POC. I happen to be mistaken for one often and it has given me a glimpse into why it is so important to have these conversations and do better.

[pizzapizza]

Great article, thanks for sharing.

[anna7602]

I didn't see this on the chart, but for the board's education, I would like to say that I do, in fact, consider it a microaggression when people can't keep certain countries in the world straight and refer to, say, Korean people as Chinese or Peruvian people as Cuban or what have you. It's really, really, really offensive and an appropriate response when corrected would be "oh, sorry," not deflecting or joking or anything else to cover up your mistake.

[rupertpenny]

Jan 26, 2016 22:52:22 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

I didn't see this on the chart, but for the board's education, I would like to say that I do, in fact, consider it a microaggression when people can't keep certain countries in the world straight and refer to, say, Korean people as Chinese or Peruvian people as Cuban or what have you. It's really, really, really offensive and an appropriate response when corrected would be "oh, sorry," not deflecting or joking or anything else to cover up your mistake.

I was kind of confused by the response to that whole situation too. Of course chickens don't have ethnicities, but I cringed a little when I read the original comment about Cuban chicken. 

Side note, I don't know if your real name is Anna, but if so have you been hearing that you spell/say it wrong your whole life? Or do people give you a pass because you are latina? Since I am not everyone insists that I am just wrong and need to pronounce it like Anna Kendrick. Or, if I insist on pronouncing it like Princess Anna I MUST spell it Ana. It drives me insane. 

[anna7602]

rupertpenny, it's my real name. I got used to Spanish-speakers pronouncing it one way and English-speakers pronouncing it another. It was only in the last ten years or so that English-speakers started asking me which pronunciation I preferred. It has been so long that I happily answer to both.

[lolo]

This has caused me to pause and reflect.

Some of them I have been aware of and have already been working on. For example, I read that often people try to sit next to someone who is most similar to them on the tube. I started trying NOT to sit next to that person.

I admit I my schema perceives people as threats when they are not. Though I still have anxiety sometimes, I try to step back and ask, if a white girl were doing the same thing, would I feel this way? It's been a good check for me and I've noticed my initial response changing as well so I have to ask that less often.

I need to think about this idea of not asking how you say a word in another language. I can see how it draws attention to otherness. But is this always wrong? For example, I speak some Spanish and occasionally forget a word. If I know someone who speaks it, is it weird to ask them? In general I'm very curious about languages and cultures. Is it wrong to ask about those things? For example, if someone is from a particular place with cultural celebration x, is it wrong to ask about it?

[winecheery]

This is a great resource.

A story: A woman who cares for a child in DD's gym class came up to me and started speaking Spanish to me. Even though I do not "look" Hispanic. I am half Cuban, however, and somehow, she picked up on it? (ha) At any rate, I felt like an idiot for only knowing a little bit of Spanish, and having to reply with a mix of English and weak Spanish; my father never taught me. We have no relationship.

I have had this happen to me many times, and it always feels so depressing after the exchange, like I missed out on a great opportunity,( even though it wasn't my choice,) and like I am somehow a failure to this side of my heritage, even though I don't often think about it, to be fair.

Probably not a very big deal (or maybe inappropriate?? Hope not...) to post this when there are far bigger things to worry about when it comes to race, but I just thought it might fit in the thread in some way. Maybe not. I guess it's just interesting to me, that this has happened multiple times in my life.

I did not find it racist, to be clear, I just think...this subject is very, very complicated, and has many different layers to it. This is as close as I've gotten to feeling feelings about myself with regard to race, and so if something so small can cause a stir in me, when it was innocent and mild, just think how much worse it is for people who face real problems about their race/nationality every day.

[chickens987]

Sorry rugbywife, I had to jump in on that post on facebook...

[anna7602]

winecheery, I think it's a completely valid addition to this chart to say "don't assume what language someone speaks based on their name or what they look like."

matildasun, I am also very visual. I don't know if it's offensive or not, but I do ask the spelling of someone's name if I'm having trouble with it. And I will repeat it back to make sure I'm getting it right. What I found annoying as anything before I dropped my maiden name was when people looked at it and not just mispronounced it, but actually said a name that shared a letter or two with
my last name, but wasn't anywhere close to being the same last name. Like, say my maiden name was (making this up) Goytisolo, they would say something like Goldberg. Whaaat?

lolo, you can ask me all of your Spanish questions!

[Willis Jackson]

My mom is the queen of microagressions and it drives me crazy.

She can't be physically near someone and not chat with them so she thinks she's just being friendly. I do call her out on it and she's receptive, but then forgets the next time.

[laurack]

this is a great article, thanks for posting.

[laurack]

with regard the accent thing (nessness) I guess for me it can be annoying because I feel like I can't start talking to a person without that being asked. So I'm gearing myself up for the question "oh where are you from!" as soon as I say anything and it gets tiring sometimes. I don't think people should stop though, I think it's a natural conversation starter for folks and everyone "loves Ireland" so it never feels negative in intention, nothing like POC and their struggles at all.

but yeah sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to put on an American accent for small talk and professional interactions.

[D2M]

Jan 27, 2016 8:50:15 GMT -5 laurack said:

with regard the accent thing (nessness ) I guess for me it can be annoying because I feel like I can't start talking to a person without that being asked. So I'm gearing myself up for the question "oh where are you from!" as soon as I say anything and it gets tiring sometimes. I don't think people should stop though, I think it's a natural conversation starter for folks and everyone "loves Ireland" so it never feels negative in intention, nothing like POC and their struggles at all.

but yeah sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to put on an American accent for small talk and professional interactions.

You are in my mom's shoes, to a certain extent.  She gets asked all the time but she's happy to answer because she's super chatty and also because everyone "loves" where she's from.  It would be a completely different story if she were a POC or had an accent from somewhere with "negative" connotations.  Furthermore, she only gets questions when she opens her mouth.  No one makes assumptions based on appearance, such as she's the nanny when she's with her grandkids (like my MIL when she's with my DD), etc., etc. etc.  But of course, I'm talking for my mom, not myself.  Many years of good ol' public school wiped out any trace of my accent! 

[pinotgrig]

Jan 26, 2016 19:51:46 GMT -5 greycat said:

Jan 26, 2016 13:08:48 GMT -5 @marshmallows said:

Thanks for posting. I have asked people about their nationality as a way of showing interest I their background, but now I see how it can be perceived differently. I learned something today, and I'm grateful for this discourse.

I'm guilty of this as well. Thanks for posting.

Is there a non-offensive way to ask someone about their background if you genuinely are interested? I work with a guy from SA and his life story is really cool and I love hearing about how he grew up and traditions he's maintained now that he lives in the US. We had a great convo one day about weddings and were both fascinated at how different our customs are. I don't even remember how we started talking about it, but I hope I didn't offend him. I learned a lot from him and continue to do so.

[patbutcher]

Jan 27, 2016 9:58:39 GMT -5 pinotgrig said:

Jan 26, 2016 19:51:46 GMT -5 greycat said:

I'm guilty of this as well. Thanks for posting.

Is there a non-offensive way to ask someone about their background if you genuinely are interested? I work with a guy from SA and his life story is really cool and I love hearing about how he grew up and traditions he's maintained now that he lives in the US. We had a great convo one day about weddings and were both fascinated at how different our customs are. I don't even remember how we started talking about it, but I hope I didn't offend him. I learned a lot from him and continue to do so.

I can only talk for myself (I'm friends with you on fb so you can see my name/colouring) - I really have no issue when people ask me my background if we are friends/have chatted for a while. It just bugs me a bit when people blurt it out as soon as I say my name/speak. I don't want to get into my life story with Pam from the dentist's office.
 I'm sure you didn't offend him. There is a difference between being interested in friend's background/culture and making a point that someone is "different/not of this place" I can tell when people are genuinely asking v fishing for "gossip" (don't know how to explain).

EG - my name is Arabic. When I give it at a lot of places they says "oh what a pretty name" (thanks!). Some ask me where it is from (that's fine). It's when they start pressing - oh how come you have that name? And your last name is Irish, that is a funny mix. Was your dad an immigrant? How did he meet your mum etc. And this is just the receptionist at the doctors. 

[anna7602]

D2M, laurack and other people constantly asked "where are you from?" Because of their accents, I have a random anecdote. My father used to totally screw with people when he was asked this (and I think he still does, but it hasn't happened in front of me in a while), saying he was Greek, Romanian, anything that popped into his head except the truth. I didn't understand as a kid that this was his way of his saying, "none of your business," but with a smile.

I also wanted to add the distinction others have made above between this being the first question you ask someone and it being part of a natural conversation with someone whom you would ask regardless of accent, looks, etc.

[patbutcher]

Jan 27, 2016 10:20:58 GMT -5 Maud said:

Jan 27, 2016 8:50:15 GMT -5 laurack said:

with regard the accent thing (nessness ) I guess for me it can be annoying because I feel like I can't start talking to a person without that being asked. So I'm gearing myself up for the question "oh where are you from!" as soon as I say anything and it gets tiring sometimes. I don't think people should stop though, I think it's a natural conversation starter for folks and everyone "loves Ireland" so it never feels negative in intention, nothing like POC and their struggles at all.

but yeah sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to put on an American accent for small talk and professional interactions.

Yes!!! And then they tell you what percentage Irish they are and what county their ancestors came from. I find that part tiresome and I get sick of feigning interest time and time again.

LOL, I have had completely Canadian people (born and bred and never been to the UK) say to me "oh I'm British too! ". As though we can now bond like I would with a fellow Brit/expat.  I get that you have British heritage but you are not British in the same way I am. 

[patbutcher]

This is completely an aside but a funny story. My old neighbour is Italian/Canadian (in the same way that Teresa Giudece is) if that makes sense. I don't think she has ever been to Italy or whatever but that is her background. 


Anyway, when she got married last year, I was invited to the wedding and I messaged her to ask where she was registered as I didn't see anywhere.  She wrote me back a very terse message about how cash gifts were expected and that is how it is done in Europe. Europeans don't do registeries except for showers. 

 I was so taken back by the cheek of the cash request, I didn't have the heart to explain that the UK is part of Europe and it's a bit rude to tell me how "Europeans" do things when she has never even been there. 

[nessness]

Jan 27, 2016 8:12:43 GMT -5 Willis Jackson said:

My mom is the queen of microagressions and it drives me crazy.

She can't be physically near someone and not chat with them so she thinks she's just being friendly. I do call her out on it and she's receptive, but then forgets the next time.

Ugh, my dad is the worst too. He is constantly asking strangers what their ethnicity is or similar questions, despite my sister and I telling him that's rude. One time he asked a waitress her ethnicity and she said that she didn't know; her mom got pregnant from a one-night-stand and she thought the guy was middle eastern but she wasn't sure. You would think that would have stopped him...

Thanks for all the responses on the accent question. It sounds like a few of the things on the list are context-dependent (whereas the others should never be said by anyone ever).

[laurack]

Jan 27, 2016 10:20:58 GMT -5 Maud said:

Jan 27, 2016 8:50:15 GMT -5 laurack said:

with regard the accent thing (nessness ) I guess for me it can be annoying because I feel like I can't start talking to a person without that being asked. So I'm gearing myself up for the question "oh where are you from!" as soon as I say anything and it gets tiring sometimes. I don't think people should stop though, I think it's a natural conversation starter for folks and everyone "loves Ireland" so it never feels negative in intention, nothing like POC and their struggles at all.

but yeah sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to put on an American accent for small talk and professional interactions.

Yes!!! And then they tell you what percentage Irish they are and what county their ancestors came from. I find that part tiresome and I get sick of feigning interest time and time again.

yes basically me saying anything ensures the conversation is very likely to turn into a conversation about Ireland. I love my home country and mostly it doesn't bother me, when it bothers me is at a party where I may talk to several different people and have the same conversation, or professionally where I feel like not only am I small female, I'm a small female with a "cute irish accent" and it sort of makes me feel even less professional when it's immediately commented on at the beginning of a business meeting with new people

Again, I don't think it's at all comparable to the POC struggle where attention and assumptions are often negative, and where judgments are made before you even open your mouth. That's just awful.