I feel like I'm going to regret this. but I owe an explanation since I've clearly already decided to voice my opinion
I honestly didn't think her attack/mocking was motivated by race. I THINK she was agog that someone of privilege would so openly discuss her privilege (referring to yourself as a philanthropist by title in an informal setting, mentioning how your fam never expected you to work, etc) because I think that's generally frowned upon (but what do I know? I grew up working class and am super tacky w/ all my MM/income posts here).
I THINK that it took v so long to realize why other people could read her posts as racially-motivated because, like myself, she benefits from white privilege. in her mind, her ... distaste (?) for kirkette's posts had nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with social status. and then by the time this was pointed out to her*, it was too late. trying to stay and stick up for yourself when there is a group of people (not kirkette, here, to be clear -- I don't get this vibe from her) who want to take you down regardless of what you say is not easy. so she left instead of trying to fix it/pick up the pieces.
I don't know - it feels like a lot of explaining but it's honestly what I think. I'm doing a lot of assuming here as well, since we haven't spoke.
*If someone said as much to her and she kept going, I take it all back. I thought I saw it go down but there were so many threads I'm not sure?
And if it is only about status and it being poor form to talk about money, why was she making snide remarks about @kirkette having many friends who have degrees? That one was pretty mind boggling to me and I can't put any other slant on it besides race.
I didn't see that one. it makes me sad, because it doesn't 'fit' with what I thought before.
Absolute mischaracterization of what I said. bronxgirl said she's read a pattern of racist remarks from v over the years (certainly didn't allege any were directed at her -- she's not a woman of color if my memory of the years is correct, so I presume not?). I asked her to back that up.
It doesn't take away anything from what may or may not have been said in a certain day to say there was no prior history.
No, I'm white. I actually said v had a pattern of racial microaggressions, not racist remarks. Of course, we all know micoraggressions are racist, but are not as blatant which may be why her comments weren't so easily noticeable. I think in the past few years I've been more aware of my white privilege, and systemic racism and microaggressions. Maybe if I were a WOC I would have noticed more of what she was really communicating, but as I have become more aware of these issues I'm noticing them more and trying to speak up more.
No, I'm white. I actually said v had a pattern of racial microaggressions, not racist remarks. Of course, we all know micoraggressions are racist, but are not as blatant which may be why her comments weren't so easily noticeable. I think in the past few years I've been more aware of my white privilege, and systemic racism and microaggressions. Maybe if I were a WOC I would have noticed more of what she was really communicating, but as I have become more aware of these issues I'm noticing them more and trying to speak up more.
I liked @246baje 's prior post despite knowing this. Knowing you (as I actually know you), and similar bigotry you may have faced due to your religion, I wouldn't be surprise if you sense these subtleties a bit quicker than most. When you are a member of a group that kind of always has to be cautious, you tend to know how to read between the lines.
I think a big way that I was able to understand microaggressions and feelings of exclusion is comparing certain situations to various experiences that I've had as a religious minority. I also went to a majority black high school and took HS classes re: African American history and African American drama and poetry and every year my school had an African American history week with a lot of intense programming, so all of those experiences have helped shape my worldview, as well.
and I'm really glad that you and I actually do know each other
Hey are you going to come back and address any of this or are you going to pull an v and pretend that your ladida response to someone being racially insensitive is of no consequence?
I'm back, but I have nothing else to say. I didn't see her say anything racist, so I have no comment on that. Probably because I haven't read the many posts about more serious topics. I come here for a break when I'm at work to look at fashion stuff, etc. - it's a break for me from my job, and I want entertainment and lightheartedness, not serious stuff. Sorry if you don't like that. You can call me simple and stupid all you want, I really don't care.
The make-up board is 3 boards up. That might be more your speed.
I didn't see that one. it makes me sad, because it doesn't 'fit' with what I thought before.
Did you see any I listed above? cilantro @chloe77 , anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?
I'll check back on y'all when I get back from volunteering, maybe some things will have clicked by then.
I'm trying here, but I feel like I might fumble with words ...
I 100% agree that my opinion on this as a white woman doesn't matter. I was conflicted by wanting to defend a friend's integrity and knowing better than to egregiously and inappropriately insert myself into a situation. I'm sorry. and I am honestly very sorry that you're left wringing your hands and dealing with a bunch of assumptions and what ifs instead of having a real, private conversation with closure and a sincere apology. because regardless of the motivation, you felt targeted based on your race and no one should be made to feel that way.
to answer your question (because I don't want you to feel like I'm ignoring you), when I originally saw the posts (clearly I missed some important ones), the jabs re: money talk, friends' money talk, manners etc all fit in my 'social class' schema which is why *I* didn't see it through a racially-motivated lens. but again, I realize that I was lucky to not deal with that uncomfortable perception because of my privilege. I'm sorry.
It is not fair to draw a parallel of my question to bronxgirl to marginalizing and attacking the veracity of the accounts of rape victims. Nor did I ask a woman of color to prove racial microaggressions she experienced.
@kirkette I'm going to step away because the above really has upset me. I didn't want to do so, though, without saying that I do hear you, I'm sorry you've experienced what you have, and I have listened and learned from what I've been able to read in these posts.
Hey are you going to come back and address any of this or are you going to pull an v and pretend that your ladida response to someone being racially insensitive is of no consequence?
I'm back, but I have nothing else to say. I didn't see her say anything racist, so I have no comment on that. Probably because I haven't read the many posts about more serious topics. I come here for a break when I'm at work to look at fashion stuff, etc. - it's a break for me from my job, and I want entertainment and lightheartedness, not serious stuff. Sorry if you don't like that. You can call me simple and stupid all you want, I really don't care.
Hey are you going to come back and address any of this or are you going to pull an v and pretend that your ladida response to someone being racially insensitive is of no consequence?
I'm back, but I have nothing else to say. I didn't see her say anything racist, so I have no comment on that.  Probably because I haven't read the many posts about more serious topics. I come here for a break when I'm at work to look at fashion stuff, etc. - it's a break for me from my job, and I want entertainment and lightheartedness, not serious stuff. Sorry if you don't like that. You can call me simple and stupid all you want, I really don't care.
It's worse than simple and stupid. We cannot foster an environment that tolerates racism. It's one thing to not know that it's happening. But it's abominable that you want someone back who has refused to apologize for or even acknowledge racist remarks that she made to a valued member of our community.
And yes, I do come here for the fashion advice.  I don't care about the comment history of the people engaged in the conversations that I'm interested in.Â
And not just that you want her back. But that you flaunt it unapologetically. GTFO.
No. That's not what I said. I said I like her perspective and haven't seen anything racist in the posts that I have read, but that I didn't read what she said to Kirkette. I'm not flaunting that I want her back, and I never would have started this post if I had ANY idea what happened. I remember the threads on ML, I didn't read them but remember when they were there, and thought V left well after that - it didn't occur to me that the two were related. I thought she was on vacation or something and hadn't come back yet.
I am not trying to be racist or ignore racism, and I apologize to anyone who I might have offended, but I don't apologize for coming on here for recreation and to talk about home/garden, makeup, fashion, etc., and not getting involved in threads about racism, politics, etc. That is simply not why I'm here.
I think @kirkette and the other community members here would also like to talk about subjects of interest to them without having someone spew racist garbage. Just a hunch.
Consider yourself lucky that you have the privilege to ignore it.
Then why tf is everyone calling it coke dick??? There was no dick in or near coke? Coke was not on or made into the shape of dick?
Who dubbed this coke dick? Who?
And yes, everyone knows you cut with the credit card. Jesus Christ.
A dream died today. There must be some tidbit no one's telling me.
I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this info and Coke Dick will live on in my denial.
If it helps, there was a thread waaay, waaay, back, I think maybe on the original Knot, where someone was bragging about her fiance's dick and described it as being the approximate thickness and length of a can of Coke. And then was shocked and surprised when people were not appropriately jealousE. But, that was forever after referred to as Coke-can dick, which apparently is an important distinction.
I'm just proud to have contributed something to this discussion. The biggest revelation to me is that posters I thought long gone are actually still here under new names. Hi guys! And hugs to you @kirkette, I've only got inklings of what went down but I can tell you're still hurting.
At the risk of sounding naive, I'm glad that the elephant in the room has finally been addressed. I've thought about bringing up v's disappearance many times but didn't think I was the person to do it.
Oh ok. Like I said, I haven't gotten enough into it to really get it. Do people sometimes have different accounts and different groups of followers for each account? So someone could have a Twitter account they only have GBCN followers in?
Oh. OH. And this whole attitude that the racist stuff is somehow confined to some specially designated threads is burning me right the fuck up. No. NO. It permeates everything. Every.fucking.thing. It's not something you can just shuffle off to the corner and think to yourself "well if I don't look then it doesn't exist tra la la la la."
Oh. OH. And this whole attitude that the racist stuff is somehow confined to some specially designated threads is burning me right the fuck up. No. NO. It permeates everything. Every.fucking.thing. It's not something you can just shuffle off to the corner and think to yourself "well if I don't look then it doesn't exist tra la la la la."
GODDAMN.
Don't you remember? V always labeled her threads, "Flame Free PC Confessions" and "Flame Free Racist Confessions" so that the people here for harassment and not recreation knew just where to look.
Post by LoveTrains on Apr 11, 2016 19:30:23 GMT -5
I can't really post from work anymore so I'm just catching up. I'm LOL'ing that people would consider v and winnieandwine posters from the heydey of MM.
maybe I'm just old but nothing beats classic MM with insominac and volenti and the christmas miracle/cutouts. THAT was the MM high point. But then again I've been posting on this board for almost 10 years and it has its ups and downs.
It's BS that v never apologize or addressed the issues, and I'm sorry that this got brought up again and caused more pain for kirkette. That sucks for her. I want to be an ally for kirkette and all our posters of color and make this board a welcoming place for them.
I can't really post from work anymore so I'm just catching up. I'm LOL'ing that people would consider v and winnieandwine posters from the heydey of MM.
maybe I'm just old but nothing beats classic MM with insominac and volenti and the christmas miracle/cutouts. THAT was the MM high point.
Oh gosh, did I imply that? They are just current forces. Volenti and insominac's Christmas miracle gave me faith in humanity and Internet strangers.
I can't really post from work anymore so I'm just catching up. I'm LOL'ing that people would consider v and winnieandwine posters from the heydey of MM.
maybe I'm just old but nothing beats classic MM with insominac and volenti and the christmas miracle/cutouts. THAT was the MM high point.
Oh gosh, did I imply that? They are just current forces. Volenti and insominac's Christmas miracle gave me faith in humanity and Internet strangers.
And now I just scrounge around for info on coke dick. Someone stage an intervention ;(
I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this info and Coke Dick will live on in my denial.
If it helps, there was a thread waaay, waaay, back, I think maybe on the original Knot, where someone was bragging about her fiance's dick and described it as being the approximate thickness and length of a can of Coke. And then was shocked and surprised when people were not appropriately jealousE. But, that was forever after referred to as Coke-can dick, which apparently is an important distinction.
I'm just proud to have contributed something to this discussion. The biggest revelation to me is that posters I thought long gone are actually still here under new names. Hi guys! And hugs to you @kirkette , I've only got inklings of what went down but I can tell you're still hurting.
I thought the coke can reference was to the size of pregnancy bathroom problems (plastic fork etc). And lol because I was all about to say that my H's dick was at least the size of a coke can until I read the word thickness. Ouch. No thank you.
If it helps, there was a thread waaay, waaay, back, I think maybe on the original Knot, where someone was bragging about her fiance's dick and described it as being the approximate thickness and length of a can of Coke. And then was shocked and surprised when people were not appropriately jealousE. But, that was forever after referred to as Coke-can dick, which apparently is an important distinction.
I'm just proud to have contributed something to this discussion. The biggest revelation to me is that posters I thought long gone are actually still here under new names. Hi guys! And hugs to you @kirkette , I've only got inklings of what went down but I can tell you're still hurting.
I thought the coke can reference was to the size of pregnancy bathroom problems (plastic fork etc). And lol because I was all about to say that my H's dick was at least the size of a coke can until I read the word thickness. Ouch. No thank you.
I am more than happy never knowing how a plastic fork plays into anything bathroom related, TYVM. And yes, she was very adamant about the girth. Because people were like, "Okay, I understand if you just mean..." and she was all, "NO IT'S AS BIG AROUND AS A COKE CAN GODDAMMIT!"
ETA: God save my soul, I tried to find this thread on Google, but apparently having a dick like a Coke can is a fairly frequent brag on porn sites. =:-O
People were like where are you v ? No one was trying to take her down. And I never saw anyone accuse her of being behind the bag of dicks.
And first she said she was at a funeral. She never said "I didn't realize that my words implied blah blah". She just ignored it.
And if it is only about status and it being poor form to talk about money, why was she making snide remarks about @kirkette having many friends who have degrees? That one was pretty mind boggling to me and I can't put any other slant on it besides race.
*Or my lack of manners? *Or how tacky my friends were for throwing their hipster themed weddings? *Or implying that my her words "engineer friends are think they are too rich to marry", which was hell weird way to twist what I was saying? *Or trying to speak down to me/ wrist slap me, on my tone and class? *Or stating, in a nutshell, how uncouth it was for me to "go out of my way to remind others how rich I thought I was", when I am answering honestly in a money post, on a money matters board. * Or take a jab at Mr.Kirkette and I using this year to start to build our legacy in a community sense. That was like next level degrees of WTF, because how the hell is she going to hate on us for helping others in society with our funds?
I could go on, but I think the above is enough of the "Stay in your lane", racial foolishness. I knew what she ways trying to do with her slights, mocks, and jabs. I wasn't born yesterday. I can sense insecure posturing via covert race jabs from a mile away. I would argue, that if pressed to answer honestly, v (and others who behave in such fashion) are likely uncomfortable, or unfamiliar with the concept of Black Wealth/ Black Excellence, so they show their ass.
And in the words of capscapscaps , we see you booboo!
I admit I never read these previous posts. And for that, I'm sorry because I admittedly made my opinion (of v) based on limited information. However, I never had any intention of dismissing what went down as something less than what it was, least of all offend or hurt you.
== Also, I want to chime in that wishing someone bodily harm is also telling on how ugly some people really are. I know winnieandwine is not popular on these parts but that also does not make it okay. You can dismiss it all you want but if you're in your 40's and you're picking on a 20-something bride's choice of (fill in the blank here); you may not be racist, but it shows how jealous, petty and insecure you are. Again, that's just my opinion based on what's posted on here.
== Lastly, the comment about MM not recognizing what went down is also not accurate. At least 50% of this board IMO is in the minority. A good % of this board have read the shit show that went down, and those that did; I can fairly assess that 99% were not "totes ok" with what happened to Smo, Kirkette and others.
All the Twitter folk can attest to the fact that I rarely discuss GBCN there.
Generally, if I'm going to ridicule you, I'll just do it here. It's more fun that way.
(And I had no idea winnieandwine had changed her name or had gotten married -- congrats! You know I have always been fond of you. I hope you are well.)
(And I had no idea winnieandwine had changed her name or had gotten married -- congrats! You know I have always been fond of you. I hope you are well.)
The feeling has always been mutual. Congratulations again (now that you know who I am!) on misotiny - she is an absolute doll.
I keep seeing various things about how MM supposedly ignores the transgressions of some posters. MM is a pretty slow board and doesn't have many hardcore posters anymore. I know some peolple sit on ML all day waiting for drama but my keyboard warrior days are over. I don't think most MM'ers are hopping all over GBCN to read v's racist tirades. I would guess many posters here have no idea what she said, I didn't understand the full depth of it until I read kirkette's post.
And although not on the same level, why would anyone make fun of NQB? Is she also hopping all over GBCN offending people or is she just an easy target?
I keep seeing various things about how MM supposedly ignores the transgressions of some posters. MM is a pretty slow board and doesn't have many hardcore posters anymore. I know some peolple sit on ML all day waiting for drama but my keyboard warrior days are over. I don't think most MM'ers are hopping all over GBCN to read v's racist tirades. I would guess many posters here have no idea what she said, I didn't understand the full depth of it until I read kirkette's post.
And although not on the same level, why would anyone make fun of NQB? Is she also hopping all over GBCN offending people or is she just an easy target?
I guess she took issue with people saying "congrats" instead of mocking me. "Oy!"