People do the same thing at the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin. It drives me nuts. But I tend to take memorials very seriously. Only small children get a pass.
At the National September 11th Memorial, tourists balance coffee cups and soda bottles on the parapets bearing the names of the dead.
Parents hoist their children to sit on the bronze plaques, while other visitors splash water from the two waterfalls onto their faces to cool themselves on a hot summer day.
On the plaza, tourists break out lunch foods and lie on their backs.
A year after the memorial’s opening, the almost-cheerful atmosphere at what was supposed to be a solemn site has appalled first responders and victims’ families.
Some have compared the $700 million memorial to a “Disney attraction,” down to the weaving lines to get in.
One tourist “spilt coffee all over my son’s name . . . after she arose from sitting on the names,” a relative wrote to Bill Doyle of the Coalition of 9/11 Families.
When first responder Marianne Pizzitola visited, she found people acting “like this was a park or playground.”
“People laughed and took pictures smiling, and so many people leaned on the tablets with all of my friends names engraved in them, holding Starbucks cups, like it was a kitchen table,” Pizzitola, head of the FDNY EMS Retirees Association, wrote in a letter to Memorial President Joe Daniels.
Last week, The Post observed guards circling the two pools and prohibiting visitors from leaning on the ledges or resting their bags against engraved names.
Two guards said the crackdown was new, a directive issued because of the upcoming 9/11 anniversary, to prevent scratches or damage to the monument.
The relaxed atmosphere at the 9/11 Memorial stands in contrast to other national memorials. At the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor, visitors are shown a video explaining the significance of the site before entering. A large sign at the entrance reads: “Please conduct yourself with dignity and respect at all times. Remember this is hallowed ground.”
At the 9/11 Memorial, a list of visitor rules directs them to a Web site for more information about respecting the memorial. One sign on the plaza reminds visitors that the memorial is “a place of remembrance and quiet reflection.”
At least one family member is relieved the site’s mood isn’t morose.
“I have always assumed that as time goes by, people will come there for gentle recreation — walking, sitting in the dappled sunshine, even picnicking — so I am rather surprised that anyone thinks this is not acceptable behavior,” said Kathy Bowden, who lost her brother in the attacks.
Said etiquette expert Jacqueline Whitmore, “When you step upon a memorial site, you should have some respect, keep your voice low, and remember it’s not an amusement park.”
I say, put up a big old sign like they have at other memorials. Unless they make it illegal to do those things (and I don't see how they can), we can just hope for people's better natures to take hold.
Post by foundmylazybum on Sept 3, 2012 13:01:20 GMT -5
Said etiquette expert Jacqueline Whitmore, “When you step upon a memorial site, you should have some respect, keep your voice low, and remember it’s not an amusement park.”
This is how one should behave at all memorials. I compare the 9/11 Memorial very much to the Vietnam Memorial.
I suppose I can't compare the 9/11 and Pearl Harbor--but at Pearl Harbor you are emotionally gearing up for that experience. Waiting in the little museum, the boat ride over etc---it keeps you easily in the mood of 'respect.'
I've always envisioned the 9/11 memorial as more of a walk up and lounge at your own pace experience--which can create a more liberated, open or park-like feeling.
Post by PinkSquirrel on Sept 3, 2012 13:06:20 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that people are laying down and eating food. I sat down away from the 2 pools for 3 seconds to dig my water bottle out from the bottom of my back pack so I could fill it up and was told I wasn't allowed to sit. While I don't think people should treat the memorial itself like a jungle gym, the rest of the area is set up like a park and if you want the entire area to be treated a certain way, then maybe the park like setting of the rest of the area wasn't the best idea.
I also think having to stand in line forever, have your ticket checked 4 or 5 times etc kind of leads people to want to hang around longer and the longer people hang around the more likely they are to do things deemed disrespectful.
Obviously this isn't the same thing, but growing up there was a pocket park near our house. We played kickball there. Then it was changed into a war memorial. We kept playing kickball there, except 1/2 the time we played there we were yelled at old crotchety men for being disrespectful.
Post by basilosaurus on Sept 3, 2012 14:45:17 GMT -5
The most powerful memorial I've been to Hiroshima. It was a mixed use park with the museum, statues, sculptures, oh and families picnicking, playing frisbee. I think the juxtaposition made it better.
People were taking pictures of themselves posing and smiling in front of Ground Zero when there was still rubble at the site, so this doesn't surprise me at all.
We take 13 and 14 year olds to several memorials in DC every year. We spend a bit of time before talking to them about what memorials mean and how to act. We've never had a problem. If 13/14 year olds can handle themselves, I would sure hope adults can.
I find it hard to believe that people are laying down and eating food. I sat down away from the 2 pools for 3 seconds to dig my water bottle out from the bottom of my back pack so I could fill it up and was told I wasn't allowed to sit. While I don't think people should treat the memorial itself like a jungle gym, the rest of the area is set up like a park and if you want the entire area to be treated a certain way, then maybe the park like setting of the rest of the area wasn't the best idea.
I also think having to stand in line forever, have your ticket checked 4 or 5 times etc kind of leads people to want to hang around longer and the longer people hang around the more likely they are to do things deemed disrespectful.
I agree that if the memorial is in a park setting one should expect that people may sit, walk their dogs, allow their kids to play, etc. Personally, I think the above activities can be done in a memorial park and still be respectful.
Post by laurenpetro on Sept 3, 2012 15:22:27 GMT -5
the post is creating outrage over nothing? unbelievable!
ETA: the reason that i am not bothered by this is because i personally think that this is what you have to expect will happen by every-day americans at an outdoor memorial. everything gets treated like a park.
Even if its a park, you don't sit on the memorial plaques. You don't put your coffee on top of the name of a victim. That part is killing me.
I completely agree with this, but I also think sitting on a blanket in the grass and drinking a coffee doesn't have to be disrepectful either. Full disclosure: I have never been to the memorial so I might be totally off in my thinking of the "parklike setting."
Hey maybe don't make your memorials with ledges and tables if you don't want them having stuff put on top of them. I wouldn't do it on purpose, but I also think its silly to get upset about it when, like a pp said, it's the only place to sit or set something and you've been in line for a while and can't get to any place normal for a while. you gotta put you shit down at SOME point to take a picture. People really care about smiling in pictures now? What, only frowns at the memorial site? Come on now.
I might take a picture of the memorial. But taking a photo of myself smiling at Ground Zero would feel very wrong to me. But maybe I'm sensitive about it.
I could totally see my mom wanting to do it and I would discourage her.
And no, you just don't put stuff down on people's names at a memorial. Never ever.
It looks as though it was designed for people to linger. So that's what they're doing, and they're doing the things that people do when they linger. I don't see it as that big of a deal.
Didn't we settle this before with the stadium lawsuit? There's no such thing as a "decorative" bench.
Why make a memorial into a benchshape if it's not for sitting?
The design at the pentagon are supposed to represent flying in/ out, I believe, there is a whole back story to it. It's eautiful in my opinion. They have signs reminding people that each statue represents a specific victim (its by birth year) and not to sit on them, though.
What I think bugs me more is having the names put all over surfaces you know are just gonna get abused. Any surface facing up is going to get eroded faster. At the very least it's gonna get bird shit all over it at some point. Putting names on the butt part of a bench is a slight in itself, IMO.
And what about those brick paths with the names, where you can't go view one name without stepping on dozens of others?
Post by basilosaurus on Sept 3, 2012 16:15:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd probably not set anything down on this, but I would definitely linger and picnic in the park surrounding it. It doesn't look like something people would sit on, so I'm trying to picture what people are doing exactly.
We have to remember that this is not in some out-of-the-way place; this is downtown Manhattan and people are going to end up at the memorial while they're visiting other tourist attractions in the area. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to suddenly become quiet and pensive after they've just gone on a shopping spree across the street at Century 21.
Having said that, the circus-like atmosphere does make me sad. But you had assholes taking pictures of themselves smiling in front of the rubble in 2001 once areas close to Ground Zero were reopened. I guess I'm jaded now.
Agreed. As much as I would not do this, I can't expect all to take it the same.
I don't know. When you're in a cemetery I think it's common courtesy to not do certain things. I see a memorial like this in the same light. I wouldn't want someone trampling on the graves of my family members or spilling coffee on them because they're careless. I would expect the same thing anywhere.
FWIW, at all of the memorials in Washington, I have found the atmosphere very quiet. I don't know why 9/11 is different. (Although yeah, the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin is pretty active.)
I might take a picture of the memorial. But taking a photo of myself smiling at Ground Zero would feel very wrong to me. But maybe I'm sensitive about it.
I still can't bring myself to even GO to Ground Zero. So I don't think you're being sensitive about it.
Given the pictures, I would expect people to do park-like things in the park area. But on the actual memorial sites? I would expect an air of respect - no sitting, etc. People don't go the Vietnam memorial in DC and lean up against it, do they? Same thing here.