Giving Notice - 2 vs 4 weeks

[steph96]

I planned on giving my 2 week notice once my background stuff came back.  I just talked to my mentor at work and she told me that they would force me to do a months notice.  I just checked with a coworker that recently left and she said that she tried to do 2 weeks, but was forced to do a months notice.  Her manager was okay with 2 weeks, but the Big Boss forced her to do a month (it was an internal transfer so idk if that makes a difference...I don't know of any other exempt employees that have quit recently).  I checked our employee handbook and it says: a reasonable period of written notice is preferred (two weeks for nonexempt employees and 30 days for exempt employees).


So what do I do?  Can they force me to do 30 days?  What happens if I don't?  Will they withhold my PTO payout (handbook basically says: Employees who terminate their employment under satisfactory conditions...will be paid for accrued PTO...) or mark me as 'not eligible for rehire'?  Do I need to call the place that hired me and say that I have to do a month?  Crappppp.

[Deleted]

When do you expect your background to come through? I would give written notice to your boss now that you plan on leaving within 60 days. If you feel uncomfortable about that, then yes, call your new place and let them know about needing 30 day notice.

[hocus2]

I would negotiate on both sides. I'd offer 3 and see what they say. I'd also alert your new company about this issue. They aren't going to rescind there offer based on 2 extra weeks.

You might also be able to use vacation time for part of the 30 days and effectively leave "early" depending on how you have.

[Susie]

Not to nitpick, but I feel really icky about the use of the word "force" in contexts like this.  I can just about guarantee your coworker wasn't really "forced" to do any particular thing regarding notice.  There are too many situations in the world right now where force is being used unjustly and categorically, that I'm uncomfortable with the word being co-opted to describe an inconvenient, but pretty milquetoast situation of an employer with a somewhat ambiguous termination policy that is pushing for people to give longer notice.

Leaving that aside, without knowing if you are exempt or non-exempt, I can't really comment on whether you need to give 2 weeks or 30 days in order to remain eligible for re-hire and to get your PTO paid out.  It sounds like maybe you are exempt, so based on the limited sections you mentioned, it sounds like you may need to give 30 days in order to get your PTO payout and be eligible for re-hire, at least without a fight that you probably do not really want to have.  The "in order to" part is key though.  You CAN always leave earlier/with shorter notice.  Hell, you could give no notice.  It would be very unprofessional, but nobody could compel (or actually force) you not to.  Whether you think it's worth moving your start date to accommodate 30 days is kind of a cost/benefit analysis on the PTO, re-hire possibility, and likely your need for them as a reference as well.  Were it me, I would probably try to make the 30 days work in the interest of making a clean move on/break from the old employer.

[Deleted]

The situation your mentor described is an internal transfer, which is completely different than quitting the company. We often set a longer transition for internal hires, typically 3 - 4 weeks.

I don't mean to sound rude, but for how poorly you have been treated by your current employer, you are giving them WAY too much consideration. Two weeks is standard!

From my understanding, you are at at-will employee with no contract. That means that, essentially, you can leave at any moment, and they can fire you at any moment.

A respectful two weeks is appropriate, and please do not let ANYONE bully you into anything different once your other employment is nailed down.

If you'd like to feel more in control, I would start writing your resignation e-mail now, so you can simply copy and paste the text when you are ready. Recommend that you give your resignation verbally, and then follow up with the e-mail IMMEDIATELY after the note. Given the environment you describe, I would expect that they may try to wheedle more than 2 weeks out of you. Too bad. "This is my two week notice, and I have already begun working on my transition plan," will be your mantra.

[dexteroni]

Give two. They can't *force* you to do anything. How much PTO would you stand to lose? I can't imagine being eligible for re-hire is a concern, given what a nightmare it was to work there.

[momof2]

No one can "force" you to work. You need to stop worrying about these jerks. Give 2 weeks notice and walk away. If they want to screw you over on PTO, rehire, etc, they will whether you act nicely or not.

I'm not saying to be a huge jerk, but 2 weeks is standard across almost every industry.

Don't even consider looking like a jerk to your new job by asking for more time to start. This will reflect badly on you.

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 11:50:42 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Give two. They can't *force* you to do anything. How much PTO would you stand to lose? I can't imagine being eligible for re-hire is a concern, given what a nightmare it was to work there.

It's an approximately $5k payout that I really don't want to lose. The whole rehire thing...it's not that I'd want to work there again, it's that when future employers call to verify my experience I don't want it to look bad when they say I'm not eligible for rehire.

As far as the "forcing" her to do a month of notice, I'm not sure what the exact details are. All she told me is that they called her into a meeting and said that 2 weeks is unacceptable and that she had to do 4 weeks.

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 11:21:26 GMT -5 @rennido said:

WTF. Did you sign something that says you have to give 4 weeks notice?

I did not. And the handbook only says that 30 days is 'preferred'

Susie I'm exempt.

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 11:25:12 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

When do you expect your background to come through? I would give written notice to your boss now that you plan on leaving within 60 days. If you feel uncomfortable about that, then yes, call your new place and let them know about needing 30 day notice.

It has almost been a week since it was all submitted. I imagine it should be back soon.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2016 12:05:44 GMT -5 steph96 said:

Jul 8, 2016 11:25:12 GMT -5 @lemonlover said:

When do you expect your background to come through? I would give written notice to your boss now that you plan on leaving within 60 days. If you feel uncomfortable about that, then yes, call your new place and let them know about needing 30 day notice.

It has almost been a week since it was all submitted. I imagine it should be back soon.

Yes, I'd give them notice now. Even if there's a small gap of employment I would go ahead and give 30 day notice today. With a 5K payout, that could ease the transition.

[kershnic]

Jul 8, 2016 12:02:14 GMT -5 momof2 said:

No one can "force" you to work. You need to stop worrying about these jerks. Give 2 weeks notice and walk away. If they want to screw you over on PTO, rehire, etc, they will whether you act nicely or not.

I'm not saying to be a huge jerk, but 2 weeks is standard across almost every industry.

Don't even consider looking like a jerk to your new job by asking for more time to start. This will reflect badly on you.

Her employer is not screwing her over if they do something that is clearly stated as the policy in the personnel manual.  

My former employer required 4 weeks notice in order to have any accrued vacation paid out (which is not odd at all in my field).  No one who gave 4 weeks notice got denied their payout.  Some people who gave less did.  There was no "they'll screw you over no matter what you do."  

OP, if you have 5k on the line and a desire to remain eligible for rehire I would do what you can do give 30 days.

[HitchedIn2006]

Is it mandated by law to pay out vacation time in your state? Our company pays out vacation no matter how much, or lack of, notice received.

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 12:54:39 GMT -5 HitchedIn2006 said:

Is it mandated by law to pay out vacation time in your state? Our company pays out vacation no matter how much, or lack of, notice received.

Based on what I've seen online, it is mandatory unless company policy prohibits it.  I think the "Employees who terminate their employment under satisfactory conditions...will be paid for accrued PTO..." clause would allow them to not pay it out if they desired.

[yentl]

An internal transfer is so different. They can't make you stay any longer than 2 weeks. Myself having given employers longer than 2 weeks notice in the past, then being told to scoot out earlier, I wouldn't do any longer than 3 weeks.

If you're really worried about the PTO I would take it after giving notice or try to find a work around.

I missed the job announcement so CONGRATULATIONS!!!

[theblissisback]

I'd give 2 weeks today and if they ask for 4 weeks than give it and inform your new job.

Your mentor might be speaking from her perspective, which would likely warrant a longer transition time.

[steph96]

I'm so conflicted. There's so many people whose opinions I value giving me different advice.

Should I just go ahead and give my notice on Monday (my manager is off today) and say my last day is the end of this month and see if they push back? My background checks haven't come back but unless there was some sort of error, I know they will come back clean.

[Muddled]

Internal transfers are absolutely handled differently. You have much less flexibility if you are moving within your organization than if you are leaving it. You can certainly ask HR if policies are unclear or you can let your new company know that you may need to change your start date.

[ellipses84]

Can you give 4 weeks notice but make the last two weeks PTO? You'd get paid for your PTO either way, it would just be a matter of waiting two more weeks. If the policy says "preferred", it's not a rule anyways. I would let them know you are giving two weeks and if they push back, I'd offer that as compromise. You could ask the new job how flexible they can be with start date, just so you know what your options are.

[Balki.Bartokomous]

I'd give 2 weeks. I'd make sure to keep a copy of the handbook in case you have to fight them. They can't force you to do anything. 2 weeks is even a courtesy.

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 13:52:20 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Can you give 4 weeks notice but make the last two weeks PTO? You'd get paid for your PTO either way, it would just be a matter of waiting two more weeks. If the policy says "preferred", it's not a rule anyways. I would let them know you are giving two weeks and if they push back, I'd offer that as compromise. You could ask the new job how flexible they can be with start date, just so you know what your options are.

I don't think they will allow it.  About 4 years ago, a lady in my department tried to use PTO for her last 2 days and they said absolutely not.  They expect you to be here every single day from the date you give your notice until your last day.

[theblissisback]

Is your HR dept in today? I'd let them know today and email your boss.

I wouldn't wait any longer.

If I was in your shoes, I would have put in notice after I accepted an offer. I don't think I've ever waited until a background check cleared, I have nothing to worry about so...why wouldn't it clear. Idk, that's just me.

Either way, 2 weeks is perfectly acceptable.

[Balki.Bartokomous]

Also, I think it's smart to wait until your background check clears to put in your notice. You never know what could happen. Even if you aren't a criminal, who knows what kind of idiot is conducting the check.

[Deleted]

I'd ask HR. At this point, I don't think it matters if they know you plan to resign. They can't do anything about until you ACTUALLY resign. They should be able to give you an answer. You don't even have to explicitly say "I am planning to quit" - you can just frame it as a general question "In reading the handbook, I see you prefer 30 days notice. Can you clarify that policy? What happens if someone puts in 2 weeks notice?".

[steph96]

Jul 8, 2016 14:34:42 GMT -5 Balki.Bartokomous said:

Also, I think it's smart to wait until your background check clears to put in your notice. You never know what could happen. Even if you aren't a criminal, who knows what kind of idiot is conducting the check.

See, that's also what I'm afraid of.  The last background check I had was over 4 years ago and it was under my maiden name.  My married name is much more common than my maiden name so idk if it might pick up some stuff that wasn't actually me.  It just makes me nervous.

Plus when I was 19, I had to do a drug test for a job and I went to the testing facility and they did the test right in front of me.  It came back positive for meth or PCP or something like that and I swear I've never touched that stuff!  Luckily they let me hang around and try again and the second one came back clean.  I'd hate for something similar to happen this time and them to not give me a second chance and for me to end up unemployed for who knows how long.

[theblissisback]

Jul 8, 2016 14:34:42 GMT -5 Balki.Bartokomous said:

Also, I think it's smart to wait until your background check clears to put in your notice. You never know what could happen. Even if you aren't a criminal, who knows what kind of idiot is conducting the check.

Eh, like I said that's how I'd handle it.

My name is as common as John Smith and I've never had any issues re the wrong person.

[dexteroni]

At this point I think I would shoot an email to my new employer just to give them a heads up. "I recently learned that I may be required to give four weeks' notice instead of the standard two. If I can give two weeks, I will, but I wanted to give you a heads up in case it has to be four. I look forward to making this official as soon as my background check is complete." Don't ask if it's ok (they'll let you know if it isn't), just let them know. I doubt this is the first time someone has had to give longer than two weeks' notice, and I doubt they'll rescind the offer over it.

Then then try your hardest to get out of there with two weeks. That way everyone knows everything, you haven't lost $5k (which I wouldn't want to lose either), and you haven't jeopardized your employment security by giving notice before you would otherwise be comfortable doing so.

[dreamcrisp1]

I'd probably give 3 (end of month) and say that's all you can do. My work asked me for 1-2 extra weeks and I said I couldn't. They understood or pretended too, lol.

[moolarkey]

Where I work, exempt employees leaving the company are to give 4 weeks notice. Stated as so in the employee standards manual. Non-exempt employees are to give a minimum of 2 weeks. Most exempt employees, however, turn in their notice are thanked and told to clean out their desk and not come back but are paid for the time. A few exempts are permitted to work at least a couple weeks. Having said that - I've never heard of them going after anyone that doesn't give 4 weeks and I'm certain there are some who haven't.

[spinnaker5]

Jul 8, 2016 12:03:45 GMT -5 steph96 said:

Jul 8, 2016 11:50:42 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Give two. They can't *force* you to do anything. How much PTO would you stand to lose? I can't imagine being eligible for re-hire is a concern, given what a nightmare it was to work there.

The whole rehire thing...it's not that I'd want to work there again, it's that when future employers call to verify my experience I don't want it to look bad when they say I'm not eligible for rehire.

This may be a relatively minor point in the scheme of things, but many organizations will only confirm employment start and end dates, as a matter of policy, when they get calls from recruiters, new employers etc.  That includes employees who have been fired for cause. Some companies with that policy require all reference-check calls to be routed to HR so they can be sure they are not exposed to any risk as a result of former managers running off at the mouth.  If you are checking in with your HR folks to get more clarity on the other issues, you could ask about this as well.