This is no longer about post about cute kids

[kategm]

Aug 30, 2016 12:38:40 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

And it's not just Cookie Monster or whatever the hell her name is. If you implied that white's best too, you're just as bad.
Boo boo kitty, we see you. "Mean" posters here can all read through the lines.
HTH!

Is this directed at those of us who said our kids were the cutest and just happen to have blondies? I do not for a minute think she ranks above others because of her coloring. I think she's the cutest because she's my kid and I'm programmed to think that.

[numbers]

Yeah... I saw that comment earlier and made a WTF face, and was relieved to see Jennyanydots had already called it out.

Also, I kind of hate these threads. Everyone SHOULD think their kids are cute and it's not a contest.

Signed,
My kid is adorable, has beautiful brown eyes, and I give no flucks about her modeling potential.

[bronxgirl]

Aug 30, 2016 12:36:06 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Aug 30, 2016 12:30:54 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Ummm, the fuck you say?
Since when has blond hair and blue eyes been cuter to the general public? The year 1700?

It's 2016 boo, that European standard of beauty ain't all that's poppin

You'll be seeing yourself out now, never to return again, right?

Or will you apologize and then immediately deactivate?

I'm starting the white tears and fragility countdown.
$50 says we get ghosted, or an "I'm not a racist" racist GBCN exit of willful ignorance martyrdom, with a name change a week later.
Will anyone raise my bet to $100?

followed up in a few weeks by "Where's cookiemonster?  She was so nice, I hope she comes back."

[Queen Mamadala]

Aug 30, 2016 12:49:26 GMT -5 chilerellanos said:

@luxeterna

I think Zach has pretty androgynous features as well.

Definitely! I like that we're starting to see more androgynous male and female models and actors. Cillian Murphy is my top crush. I've been crushing on him for many years. He's very "pretty" for a guy. Ruby Rose has a similar androgynous look.

I love his shirt, btw.

ETA: He has longer hair. Does he receive negative attention? My son's hair is shoulder length. We may cut it a little, but have no plans to cut it short. He likes his longer hair and big curls. I love it. I still get comments from older more conservative folks about it being too long. *eye roll*

[h]

There absolutely are people in the "general public" who award "extra points" for blond hair and blue eyes. But that is indicative of systemic racism, not the inherent cuteness of white kids.

People sometimes come up to me when I have all three kids with me and say things like "look at all those blond, blue-eyed boys!" in a way that makes it very clear that they prefer and delight in those features. Honestly, I assume those people are racist. And I wish they would quit assuming that I am on their team because I bore the blond, blue-eyed kids.

I mean, I think my kids are super cute because they are and because they are mine. Not because they have blue eyes.

[Queen Mamadala]

@barefootbarista - Another Cillian admirer! I often hear he's too "pretty" and effeminate. Whatev. I remember ML had a thread about him a while back.

[smock]

The general public reinforces beauty norms (and racial hierarchies) by praising blonde/blue-eyed babies!?! I'm SHOCKED!

Oh, wait, the only shocking thing is that you'd internalize those "extra points" and brag about them on a website.

[thebreakfastclub]

I stumbled into this thread way late.

I see we've moved on from how amazingly adorable it is to have a redhead child and on to blondes.

[kershnic]

Aug 30, 2016 13:06:43 GMT -5 h said:

There absolutely are people in the "general public" who award "extra points" for blond hair and blue eyes. But that is indicative of systemic racism, not the inherent cuteness of white kids.

People sometimes come up to me when I have all three kids with me and say things like "look at all those blond, blue-eyed boys!" in a way that makes it very clear that they prefer and delight in those features. Honestly, I assume those people are racist. And I wish they would quit assuming that I am on their team because I bore the blond, blue-eyed kids.

I mean, I think my kids are super cute because they are and because they are mine. Not because they have blue eyes.

I know there's a problematic racist under layer to this interest in blonde/blue, but didn't cookie pretty much say that she thinks they're average cute but they get extra attention from strangers due to a societal interest in blonde/blue? Granted she didn't point out the racist layer to it, but it seems like a similar sentiment.

Edit: with a follow up acknowledgment of not explicitly recognizing the racism in societal interest in blonde/blue.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2016 10:15:05 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

Aug 30, 2016 9:59:53 GMT -5 Jennyanydots said:

Uhh, what?

All three girls are blond hair/blue eyes, so I think that makes them cuter to the general public.

This shit pisses me right the fuck off.

[fashionx]

I think DD is adorable, and so pretty. We hear it a lot from strangers so I think it's not just me, lol.

I had actually thought about some baby modeling but not sure DD has the personality for it, or me for that matter. Although I am in photo shoots all the time, behind the scenes (tailoring).

However I recognize other gorgeous babies out there. Most babies are cute in some way or another!

[fashionx]

So clearly I should have read before posting, oops.

[spaghettisquash]

I think my kids are gorgeous and frequently tell that. As hapas, they most likely will not receive that affirmation from society and I want them to know that they are amazing just the way they are.

On a somewhat related note, I don't like using hapa because, to me, it implies Hawaiian heritage which my kids don't have. I also dislike mixed, biracial, etc. What do parents of multi race kids use?

[kershnic]

Aug 30, 2016 13:23:38 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 30, 2016 13:17:04 GMT -5 kershnic said:

I know there's a problematic racist under layer to this interest in blonde/blue, but didn't cookie pretty much say that she thinks they're average cute but they get extra attention from strangers due to a societal interest in blonde/blue? Granted she didn't point out the racist layer to it, but it seems like a similar sentiment.

Her second post was like that.  The first was her saying they were average, but "extra points for blond hair/blue eyes" with no mention of others - she was giving out those extra points, because she has internalized the European beauty standard.

Which is hard; we all have to some extent, and that's why it's important to stop perpetuating this racist, old-fashioned BS.

I guess I interpreted the modeling part of the question in the OP as an assumed conversation of things like 'what do you hear on the street?' Rather than simply your own impression of your children. Many many people have mentioned in many posts that kids w blonde hair, blue eyes, and red hair get a lot of attention from random strangers.

But certainly I, like many, have further things to reflect on about internalization of white European beauty standards.

[elleblue]

Of course my kid is the cutest ever, never mind that she isn't even born yet.

She will not be a child model, I have no desire whatsoever to be a stage mother.

[thebreakfastclub]

Aug 30, 2016 13:31:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Aug 30, 2016 13:12:01 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

I stumbled into this thread way late.

I see we've moved on from how amazingly adorable it is to have a redhead child and on to blondes.

Wait, who said that?

I'll have to look back but it seemed like there was a lot of red-head chatter at the start of the thread, which I found kind of off-putting.  Like that's a given for why your kid would model or be stopped by strangers. But I thought it was just me.  Then I had a meeting, backed out of the thread and came back to what unfolded.

[awkwardpenguin]

I think it's much easier for us as a group to label one person as a racist and run them off the board than to confront how pervasive the white beauty standard is and how it influences conversations like this for all of us, especially white posters. Lots of other people made comments about specific features of their children they find beautiful, plenty of which are influenced by extra societal approval of light skin, light hair, and light eyes.

I understand the anger over @cookiemonster03's comment, but I also have become frustrated with the direction our race conversations have taken, from what used to feel like thoughtful and respectful conversations to labeling people as racist and running them off the board. Instead of challenging people on their behavior and encouraging them to take responsibility, we've adopted a way of interacting over race where the primary method is call outs where many posters join in calling out and distancing themselves from racist behavior instead of confronting what leads to incidents like this and how we can learn from them and move forward in creating a community where racism is confronted and actually changed. This really is a challenge to white posters, because it is not the job of our posters of color to educate us on how to not be racist.

I'm white, and I grew up in a racist society. I've made comments in the past that were absolutely racist and not okay. I was very lucky that people in my community (once here, one IRL) challenged me on my racist behavior in a way that allowed me to grow and change.

[Queen Mamadala]

Aug 30, 2016 13:27:22 GMT -5 spaghettisquash said:

I think my kids are gorgeous and frequently tell that. As hapas, they most likely will not receive that affirmation from society and I want them to know that they are amazing just the way they are.

On a somewhat related note, I don't like using hapa because, to me, it implies Hawaiian heritage which my kids don't have. I also dislike mixed, biracial, etc. What do parents of multi race kids use?

I've generally used mixed/biracial. Hapa is specific to people with mixed race Hawaiian heritage, right? I wouldn't mind using another label. 

[Deleted]

Obviously I think Piper is amazingly gorgeous, that's the mama in me. She was kinda funny lookin' as an infant, she has a massive forehead - thanks dad, and still has very little hair - my fault.

That said, I get tons of comments about how beautiful she is, and entirely too many of them reference the blond hair/blue eyes and it makes me so incredibly uncomfortable every single time.

[JLV]

Aug 30, 2016 13:43:54 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I think it's much easier for us as a group to label one person as a racist and run them off the board than to confront how pervasive the white beauty standard is and how it influences conversations like this for all of us, especially white posters. Lots of other people made comments about specific features of their children they find beautiful, plenty of which are influenced by extra societal approval of light skin, light hair, and light eyes.

I understand the anger over @cookiemonster03 's comment, but I also have become frustrated with the direction our race conversations have taken, from what used to feel like thoughtful and respectful conversations to labeling people as racist and running them off the board. Instead of challenging people on their behavior and encouraging them to take responsibility, we've adopted a way of interacting over race where the primary method is call outs where many posters join in calling out and distancing themselves from racist behavior instead of confronting what leads to incidents like this and how we can learn from them and move forward in creating a community where racism is confronted and actually changed. This really is a challenge to white posters, because it is not the job of our posters of color to educate us on how to not be racist.

I'm white, and I grew up in a racist society. I've made comments in the past that were absolutely racist and not okay. I was very lucky that people in my community (once here, one IRL) challenged me on my racist behavior in a way that allowed me to grow and change.

Stop. It is really not your position to tell POC how they should and should not be reacting to situations like this. The women on this board have been more than patient with micro-aggression and racist comments. It is not their job to hold out hands and coddle us because our feelings are hurt. People should be called out on their bullshit comments. 

[spaghettisquash]

Aug 30, 2016 13:45:11 GMT -5 Queen Mamadala said:

Aug 30, 2016 13:27:22 GMT -5 spaghettisquash said:

I think my kids are gorgeous and frequently tell that. As hapas, they most likely will not receive that affirmation from society and I want them to know that they are amazing just the way they are.

On a somewhat related note, I don't like using hapa because, to me, it implies Hawaiian heritage which my kids don't have. I also dislike mixed, biracial, etc. What do parents of multi race kids use?

I've generally used mixed/biracial. Hapa is specific to people with mixed race Hawaiian heritage, right? I wouldn't mind using another label. 

Yes, hapa is specifically for Hawaiian heritage but a lot of half Asians use it. It just feels wrong to me to use it, especially with the native Hawaiian rights movement's feelings on it.

Edited to add that my kids are half Thai and half white, which is why I started using the term.

[Queen Mamadala]

Aug 30, 2016 13:43:54 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I think it's much easier for us as a group to label one person as a racist and run them off the board than to confront how pervasive the white beauty standard is and how it influences conversations like this for all of us, especially white posters. Lots of other people made comments about specific features of their children they find beautiful, plenty of which are influenced by extra societal approval of light skin, light hair, and light eyes.

I understand the anger over @cookiemonster03 's comment, but I also have become frustrated with the direction our race conversations have taken, from what used to feel like thoughtful and respectful conversations to labeling people as racist and running them off the board. Instead of challenging people on their behavior and encouraging them to take responsibility, we've adopted a way of interacting over race where the primary method is call outs where many posters join in calling out and distancing themselves from racist behavior instead of confronting what leads to incidents like this and how we can learn from them and move forward in creating a community where racism is confronted and actually changed. This really is a challenge to white posters, because it is not the job of our posters of color to educate us on how to not be racist.

I'm white, and I grew up in a racist society. I've made comments in the past that were absolutely racist and not okay. I was very lucky that people in my community (once here, one IRL) challenged me on my racist behavior in a way that allowed me to grow and change.

Nah. I'm good. I have a no kid gloves policy about matters of race.

[sweetday]

Aug 30, 2016 13:43:54 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I think it's much easier for us as a group to label one person as a racist and run them off the board than to confront how pervasive the white beauty standard is and how it influences conversations like this for all of us, especially white posters. Lots of other people made comments about specific features of their children they find beautiful, plenty of which are influenced by extra societal approval of light skin, light hair, and light eyes.

I understand the anger over @cookiemonster03 's comment, but I also have become frustrated with the direction our race conversations have taken, from what used to feel like thoughtful and respectful conversations to labeling people as racist and running them off the board. Instead of challenging people on their behavior and encouraging them to take responsibility, we've adopted a way of interacting over race where the primary method is call outs where many posters join in calling out and distancing themselves from racist behavior instead of confronting what leads to incidents like this and how we can learn from them and move forward in creating a community where racism is confronted and actually changed. This really is a challenge to white posters, because it is not the job of our posters of color to educate us on how to not be racist.

I'm white, and I grew up in a racist society. I've made comments in the past that were absolutely racist and not okay. I was very lucky that people in my community (once here, one IRL) challenged me on my racist behavior in a way that allowed me to grow and change.

Nope.

Thoughtful and respectful conversations challenging people on their behavior has happened a million times over. 

"Encouraging" anyone to take responsibility has to end at some point. Take responsibility for yourself. You (general and ms. cookie in particular) are still leaning after umpteenth conversations? Then think about what the hell you are going to say and dont come in to posts with half assed apologies.

This isnt a challenge for any poster anymore. There have been way too many conversations about this. 

[yellowbrkrd]

Aug 30, 2016 13:37:52 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

Aug 30, 2016 13:31:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Wait, who said that?

I'll have to look back but it seemed like there was a lot of red-head chatter at the start of the thread, which I found kind of off-putting.  Like that's a given for why your kid would model or be stopped by strangers. But I thought it was just me.  Then I had a meeting, backed out of the thread and came back to what unfolded.

I think you're referring to my post. In no way did I mean that my kid is cuter because he has red hair. I just get a lot of comments about his red hair and "modeling" when we're out in public. I apologize if it came across that way.

[elleblue]

And here I thought this was a lighthearted thread with most everyone saying their kids were super cute. Should have read past the first page before posting earlier. Wtf @cookiemonster03.

[awkwardpenguin]

Aug 30, 2016 14:05:25 GMT -5 sweetday said:

Aug 30, 2016 13:43:54 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I think it's much easier for us as a group to label one person as a racist and run them off the board than to confront how pervasive the white beauty standard is and how it influences conversations like this for all of us, especially white posters. Lots of other people made comments about specific features of their children they find beautiful, plenty of which are influenced by extra societal approval of light skin, light hair, and light eyes.

I understand the anger over @cookiemonster03 's comment, but I also have become frustrated with the direction our race conversations have taken, from what used to feel like thoughtful and respectful conversations to labeling people as racist and running them off the board. Instead of challenging people on their behavior and encouraging them to take responsibility, we've adopted a way of interacting over race where the primary method is call outs where many posters join in calling out and distancing themselves from racist behavior instead of confronting what leads to incidents like this and how we can learn from them and move forward in creating a community where racism is confronted and actually changed. This really is a challenge to white posters, because it is not the job of our posters of color to educate us on how to not be racist.

I'm white, and I grew up in a racist society. I've made comments in the past that were absolutely racist and not okay. I was very lucky that people in my community (once here, one IRL) challenged me on my racist behavior in a way that allowed me to grow and change.

Nope.

Thoughtful and respectful conversations challenging people on their behavior has happened a million times over. 

"Encouraging" anyone to take responsibility has to end at some point. Take responsibility for yourself. You (general and ms. cookie in particular) are still leaning after umpteenth conversations? Then think about what the hell you are going to say and dont come in to posts with half assed apologies.

This isnt a challenge for any poster anymore. There have been way too many conversations about this. 

I understand and respect this position. But at the same time I really personally did take a lot away from some of our previous discussions of race, and I suspect I'm not the only one. Now race issues come up and most people peace out of the posts and just tell themselves that THEY are not racist because they didn't do the exact thing that got called out in the thread.



I know a bring a ton of white fragility to the table, and I'm trying to acknowledge and work on it.

[glinda]

I'm not getting the making call outs gentle tone. Are you supposed to pm the person and say "honey, btw, that comes off a little poorly" and confine the conversation to not hurt feelings?

[nessness]

Aug 30, 2016 13:27:22 GMT -5 spaghettisquash said:

I think my kids are gorgeous and frequently tell that. As hapas, they most likely will not receive that affirmation from society and I want them to know that they are amazing just the way they are.

On a somewhat related note, I don't like using hapa because, to me, it implies Hawaiian heritage which my kids don't have. I also dislike mixed, biracial, etc. What do parents of multi race kids use?

I mostly use biracial. DH uses mixed. I've never hear the term hapa. Once someone referred to DD (and her own kid, collectively) as "half" which got a major WTF from me, but other than that I'm not real sensitive about terminology.

[awkwardpenguin]

Aug 30, 2016 14:20:37 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

awkwardpenguin - do you see how you made it the job of POC (even though you disclaimed that) to have the conversation in a way that doesn't disturb the people making racist comments? Why is the onus on everyone (rightfully) offended to treat the offender with kid gloves to ensure we aren't too mean and ruing their learning environment?

This is textbook white fragility.

Yes, I do see that.  I'm sorry.  I really care about these issues and I'm trying to engage, but I have a long way to go.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2016 14:24:00 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

Aug 30, 2016 14:05:25 GMT -5 sweetday said:

Nope.

Thoughtful and respectful conversations challenging people on their behavior has happened a million times over. 

"Encouraging" anyone to take responsibility has to end at some point. Take responsibility for yourself. You (general and ms. cookie in particular) are still leaning after umpteenth conversations? Then think about what the hell you are going to say and dont come in to posts with half assed apologies.

This isnt a challenge for any poster anymore. There have been way too many conversations about this. 

I understand and respect this position. But at the same time I really personally did take a lot away from some of our previous discussions of race, and I suspect I'm not the only one. Now race issues come up and most people peace out of the posts and just tell themselves that THEY are not racist because they didn't do the exact thing that got called out in the thread.



I know a bring a ton of white fragility to the table, and I'm trying to acknowledge and work on it.

Ok that's great. Glad you have gotten something out of race conversations. But that is not our job to make sure you get something out of it. Why is the onus on us? Sometimes a fuck you is a ok instead of kumbaya let's hold hands. It is damn near 2017 and sometimes we are tired.