This is no longer about post about cute kids

[lindsaymg]

Aug 31, 2016 23:47:01 GMT -5 mishy said:

Aug 31, 2016 22:32:33 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

I have read every single post, but I can't help but see that half of the posts are apologies without any other real commentary. And I AM sorry. I do find what happened to your son absolutely abhorrent. I just want to make sure you don't see "I don't have much to add other than I am sorry" as flippant or unhelpful. I WANT to be helpful/a friend. I just don't know how to valuably convey that. Does that "sorry" check in have value? Does that show you I care? If so, I will always check in. I will say the apology I feel.

I don't like to be flippant. I want you that sentiment to be conveyed.

So, because I didn't say it earlier... I am sorry this post turned an ugly direction. I'm sorry these continue to be the conversations. I will continue to be more aware because of these conversations. I'm sorry we have lost yet another valuable contributor. She was one of my favorites.

You are either talking about cubed and what happened to her son, or you are talking about what happened to kirkette's daughter. That's a pretty hurtful error, especially given the context.

If I were you, I would stop talking. Take some time to listen, reflect, and read any number of the resources being suggested in other active threads. 

And in regards to your question, I can't speak for the WOC here, but as a white person I am seeing many of the "I'm sorry" responses as hollow gestures because it seems like the board would rather apologize and ask for forgiveness rather than put the work in. The apologies mean nothing if we white posters don't follow through on the work.

I meant Kirkette's daughter and the handcuffs. Sorry for that sex mix up. I am just going to read from here.

[rikki]

Sorry for not replying sooner -- we are still in Australia and I haven't had time to check in. 

Again, more crap, another day.  I am so sad that we (as this group and as the larger community) are still dealing with this.  I try to remain optimistic, but shit like this makes it really hard for me to believe that anything is really changing. 

[chickens987]

Aug 31, 2016 23:30:59 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Aug 31, 2016 18:52:56 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

I have to say, it's infuriating to see active posters who post all day damn just ghost on racial threads. Like we can see you still posting in other threads.

I don't know. I feel like sometimes these threads become a lot of self congratulation from white posters about how they're not racist. I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, but I guess beyond simply showing up there needs to be participation beyond "Oh how dare they and I would NEVER!"

This is where I am, especially if you miss initial comment and end up coming in at the end or after the conversation has been going for a while. What is there to say beyond "I am sorry AGAIN". If I see racism or any kind of foolishness going unchecked, I will speak up - I know that because I have - but I don't feel compelled to post simply so I don't end up someone's "list". That being said, I am profoundly sad that the actions of a few reflect so badly on this community as a whole, but I understand that those few can often be the biggest presence and overshadow everyone else.

[CheeringCharm]

Oh my goodness. I've been out of town recently and haven't even been reading. I logged on today for the first time in a while and saw this. I am so so sorry that this keeps happening. We've been having these kinds of discussions for over a year. You'd think people would have learned by now

[lilles]

I haven't finished reading. I cannot comprehend how we keep having the same discussion. It's frustrating and infuriating.

DD1 is reading AG Melody's book and asked me if black people were free now (I posted about this on CEP)

I want to tell her yes. I want to tell her EVERYONE is free. I want to tell her to be proud that she is half Puerto Rican and that she speaks Spanish. I want to tell her that NOT ONE person in the universe has to worry about being judged and or mistreated because of their cultural heritage. I want to tell her and her brother and sister so many things. Yet I can't tell them lies as much as I want to shelter them. I however, can teach them to be better than me and to help create a world where we don't have to fight the same fight and discuss the same thing because we have the power to change it. It takes one person, one smile. Never forget the power of one.

[pescalita]

Sept 1, 2016 5:08:33 GMT -5 chickens987 said:

Aug 31, 2016 23:30:59 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

I don't know. I feel like sometimes these threads become a lot of self congratulation from white posters about how they're not racist. I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, but I guess beyond simply showing up there needs to be participation beyond "Oh how dare they and I would NEVER!"

This is where I am, especially if you miss initial comment and end up coming in at the end or after the conversation has been going for a while. What is there to say beyond "I am sorry AGAIN". If I see racism or any kind of foolishness going unchecked, I will speak up - I know that because I have - but I don't feel compelled to post simply so I don't end up someone's "list". That being said, I am profoundly sad that the actions of a few reflect so badly on this community as a whole, but I understand that those few can often be the biggest presence and overshadow everyone else.

I've been less active in the last year or so and often get here after the fact. I've been reading and listening and working on doing better IRL and raising my kids better IRL, and it's honestly not high on my list to come up with something constructive to say on a message board. Or FB for that matter. GBCN tends to be filled with introverts who prioritize digital communication and then post themselves on the back for doing it "well". I don't care that I ticked my name on the list of sorrys. I care that I still need to do better. Mostly in real life, where is much harder to be blatantly honest and much easier to fall back on shit habits.

[mishy]

Aug 31, 2016 23:59:41 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

Aug 31, 2016 23:47:01 GMT -5 mishy said:

You are either talking about cubed and what happened to her son, or you are talking about what happened to kirkette's daughter. That's a pretty hurtful error, especially given the context.

If I were you, I would stop talking. Take some time to listen, reflect, and read any number of the resources being suggested in other active threads. 

And in regards to your question, I can't speak for the WOC here, but as a white person I am seeing many of the "I'm sorry" responses as hollow gestures because it seems like the board would rather apologize and ask for forgiveness rather than put the work in. The apologies mean nothing if we white posters don't follow through on the work.

I meant Kirkette's daughter and the handcuffs. Sorry for that sex mix up. I am just going to read from here.

This bothered me last night but I chose to step away for the night, and then this morning, I kept thinking about this comment. I ask that you think about why you included the word "sex" when you apologized for your mistake. I ask you to think about what message that sends. I ask you to open yourself up and own the possibility at the very least that you mixed this up because you were mixing up the stories of two different POC.

[lindsaymg]

Sept 1, 2016 10:15:22 GMT -5 mishy said:

Aug 31, 2016 23:59:41 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

I meant Kirkette's daughter and the handcuffs. Sorry for that sex mix up. I am just going to read from here.

This bothered me last night but I chose to step away for the night, and then this morning, I kept thinking about this comment. I ask that you think about why you included the word "sex" when you apologized for your mistake. I ask you to think about what message that sends. I ask you to open yourself up and own the possibility at the very least that you mixed this up because you were mixing up the stories of two different POC.

I specified so it was understood I meant that I hadn't mixed up the poster of the story. I make mistakes and get the sex of peoples' children mixed up. I also forget the ages of poster's kids and how many they have. I forget where people live and what they do for a living. I post from an app without signature pictures that might remind me of some of these details. I am obviously not going to win here. If I know everything, then I am creepy spreadsheet girl. I forget something, I must be a racist.

There are a ton of people on here. Do you have every single poster's family memorized?

[ijack]

So I was literally out of town for work all week and am just now sitting down to read this, but I didn't want to remain silent.
Fuck this shit again. I don't know what else to say. Friends (because I do really consider some of you my friends) I am so sorry that my people are assholes and it continues to fall on you again and again to try and correct us. It's not fair to you and I wish it would stop happening

[undecidedowl]

Sept 1, 2016 10:33:48 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

Sept 1, 2016 10:15:22 GMT -5 mishy said:

This bothered me last night but I chose to step away for the night, and then this morning, I kept thinking about this comment. I ask that you think about why you included the word "sex" when you apologized for your mistake. I ask you to think about what message that sends. I ask you to open yourself up and own the possibility at the very least that you mixed this up because you were mixing up the stories of two different POC.

I specified so it was understood I meant that I hadn't mixed up the poster of the story. I make mistakes and get the sex of peoples' children mixed up. I also forget the ages of poster's kids and how many they have. I forget where people live and what they do for a living. I post from an app without signature pictures that might remind me of some of these details. I am obviously not going to win here. If I know everything, then I am creepy spreadsheet girl. I forget something, I must be a racist.

There are a ton of people on here. Do you have every single poster's family memorized?

Please stop. This is not about you, this is not about your feelings. Take time to reflect on why it was not important enough to you to make sure you had the story straight. The information was right here in this thread.

[raangoli]

Sept 1, 2016 10:33:48 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

Sept 1, 2016 10:15:22 GMT -5 mishy said:

This bothered me last night but I chose to step away for the night, and then this morning, I kept thinking about this comment. I ask that you think about why you included the word "sex" when you apologized for your mistake. I ask you to think about what message that sends. I ask you to open yourself up and own the possibility at the very least that you mixed this up because you were mixing up the stories of two different POC.

I specified so it was understood I meant that I hadn't mixed up the poster of the story. I make mistakes and get the sex of peoples' children mixed up. I also forget the ages of poster's kids and how many they have. I forget where people live and what they do for a living. I post from an app without signature pictures that might remind me of some of these details. I am obviously not going to win here. If I know everything, then I am creepy spreadsheet girl. I forget something, I must be a racist.

There are a ton of people on here. Do you have every single poster's family memorized?

Kirkette is a well known poster who makes it very clear that she has 2 daughters. Even in reading her story she mentioned it was her daughter. If you are responding to a particular story then it's not unreasonable to expect that you'd remember that it was her daughter that was "sin shackled". 

[katrinabennett]

Sept 1, 2016 10:37:12 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

Sept 1, 2016 10:33:48 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

I specified so it was understood I meant that I hadn't mixed up the poster of the story. I make mistakes and get the sex of peoples' children mixed up. I also forget the ages of poster's kids and how many they have. I forget where people live and what they do for a living. I post from an app without signature pictures that might remind me of some of these details. I am obviously not going to win here. If I know everything, then I am creepy spreadsheet girl. I forget something, I must be a racist.

There are a ton of people on here. Do you have every single poster's family memorized?

Please stop. This is not about you, this is not about your feelings. Take time to reflect on why it was not important enough to you to make sure you had the story straight. The information was right here in this thread.

And I, like you, never remember people's kids - boy girl or ages.
So I choose my words. I would say 'I'm sorry to hear that happened to your child' Still authentic.

[ewall]

I keep coming in here thinking that surely by page 19, people must have figured it out by now. If you've read the entire thread and you still don't get it, maybe go read the spin off threads for better understanding.

I'm sorry that this happened once again. And I'm sorry that I have disengaged from the board during past incidents. I see now (thanks to articles posted) that it was the wrong course of action to take.

[lilchubbs]

Aug 31, 2016 22:37:37 GMT -5 lindsaymg said:

Aug 31, 2016 22:26:05 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

I only asked Kirkette because she hit my heart when she said we were bad friends, I get why she said it. I do value her opinion but wasn't necessarily looking for her to speak for everyone. I'd love every POC to address my question.

I also lack skill in conveying sentiment and tone on most any topic. My coworkers ask if I am being sarcastic in emails when I am being absolutely genuine. Because of this work feedback I overthink my written communication.

I don't go here (or anywhere really-mostly a lurker), but I'm going to help you out. If someone lost a loved one, would you roll up and see 18 pages of "I'm sorry for your loss" and think to yourself, "Nah, I don't need to respond, there are enough condolences here." ?? No? Then offer whatever you genuinely think and feel. Also, since POC are not a singular block of people, and thus we all as individuals want different things, there is no one right answer as to how to respond/answer/etc.

[anna7602]

Sept 1, 2016 8:36:16 GMT -5 lilles said:

I haven't finished reading. I cannot comprehend how we keep having the same discussion. It's frustrating and infuriating.

DD1 is reading AG Melody's book and asked me if black people were free now (I posted about this on CEP)

I want to tell her yes. I want to tell her EVERYONE is free. I want to tell her to be proud that she is half Puerto Rican and that she speaks Spanish. I want to tell her that NOT ONE person in the universe has to worry about being judged and or mistreated because of their cultural heritage. I want to tell her and her brother and sister so many things. Yet I can't tell them lies as much as I want to shelter them. I however, can teach them to be better than me and to help create a world where we don't have to fight the same fight and discuss the same thing because we have the power to change it. It takes one person, one smile. Never forget the power of one.

I can relate. It's so difficult to answer in the context of the America we live in and then you add to that years of systemic and institutionalized racism in Latin America (and the Caribbean in particular) and I often ask myself, "how in the hell do I explain this to DD in a way that she will understand?" 

[agnes]

It is a shame that WOC have to keep "teaching" us white folks how to not be racist/racially insensitive. It's a travesty that we lose wonderful people because WE NEVER LEARN.

[fashionx]

This is late, but I guess better late than not commenting. Its been a busy week, and I don't get on to post daily. But I have now taken the time tonight to read this whole thread, and I feel so many emotions. I am stunned, and saddened and angry. I don't really know what to say, but I'll write what I'm thinking.

I struggle with race issues sometimes because I struggle with my own identity as a multiracial person. I have experienced everything from casually hurtful or insensitive comments or questions from ignorant but "probably well meaning people", to being told to "go back to where you came from" (here? I was born and live here). I'm certain that my ethnic name has cost me not getting called for interviews or other opportunities. My mother (who is white) has been asked since I was a baby, if I was adopted. We have talked about that story and laughed about it, but it was always weird, and now as a mother myself I know how painful that was and she did her best not to show how it hurt her. At the same time, I know that my experiences pale in comparison to other POC. The stories @kirkette and cubed shared in this thread brought me to tears. I am so sorry for your experiences, and also to those whose stories were not shared here.

I sometimes let comments others make about race slide in "real life" because sometimes it's easier to let it go than to confront it each time. I don't like confrontation in general. But I am doing a disservice to myself and to others by allowing it through silence, and I'm working on that. I have been more conscious about calling out comments, and I will continue to push myself and my comfort levels to push back when I see it. Being uncomfortable is OK. Giving passes and allowing the behavior to continue is not.

Edited: typo

Eta again - I know I'm also very lucky. I have a privileged life in many ways too, which is part of the identity issue I have. I hate the feeling that I have to choose which part of me I "am".

[WOUNDTIGHT]

I'm just going to drop this here, which gives very good visuals as to how we should all react to the Aryan standard of beauty fuckery- which is being presented as actual NEWS in 2016.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurenstrapagiel/these-fox-hosts-exchanged-the-most-devastating-side-eye-duri?utm_term=.ccJNnWlxd#.tsV5Yy3aD