What White Posters Can Do

[h]

I am blown away to think that any mother could read @natariru's post and not be moved to do better. Reading accounts, on here and elsewhere, of what mothers have to do to prepare their sons of color to survive in this world has been the number one thing that has made me want to do more to fight racism. I will never know what it is like to be a POC in America, but I do know what it is like to love your kids. I know what it is like to raise boys. And it enrages me and breaks my heart to think of all the mothers out there, loving their kids like I love mine and doing their best to raise them like I am, who have to worry about this bullshit. I do not see how anyone can hold their own baby in their arms and then read those stories and not care.

I am so grateful to those who have shared and educated, and so sorry to all those who have been hurt.

[bcv513]

Super green has mo intention of leaving. She's trying to play the victim/martyr and is waiting for people to beg her to stay. And kategm is playing right into it already. I don't understand how people can be so disgustingly ignorant. Nata's post should be required reading for anyone posting here.

[redheadbaker]

Sept 3, 2016 8:50:28 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Sept 3, 2016 8:34:20 GMT -5 compassrose said:

I'm only a recent lurker on MMM (since we started TTC), but I couldn't read this thread and not post. I cannot believe they were not IP banned. That speaks volumes to me.
I'm Latina but I'm white, so people often say incredible shit in front of me and are surprised when I am offended and call them out. This should not be a sentence I can type. It's bullshit that so many white people think only POC get offended by racist statements. It's terrifying that so often those statements are unseen by so many. If you are a person who has had the privilege to keep your head in the sand and ignore micro aggressions, there is no time like the present to wake up. It seems like a reasonable line in the sand to draw: the price of membership is a level of self-awareness that involves not denigrating valued members of our community and perpetuating systemic racism.

Perfectly said. Maybe we can add this to the sticky?

Done. Put it right in the top of the first post as I felt it was a good overview of the point of the sticky thread. 

[fryjack2]

As mothers, we all share the same hope that our kids grow up healthy and kind. We post here with questions to help guide us or to help others in a similar newborn, toddler, preschooler challenging stage.

How they get to be healthy adults looks very different if you are raising a non white child.

This isn't the first time it's been mentioned here. I remember years ago when @natariru posted about her fears for her son. It resonated with me and opened my eyes to more fears I should be conscious of as I raise boys who can pass for white.

I get angry and sad reading bullshit on GBCN (aka Dumbassness from super green and atrianna) but I don't have a lot of hope left that it will change (here or real life) any time soon without banning. Or people leaving without making a MFing poll.

I lurk here (usually after threads have died) way more than I post. I'll try to post more especially in race related threads.

[erbear]

Sept 3, 2016 8:52:45 GMT -5 h said:

I am blown away to think that any mother could read @natariru 's post and not be moved to do better. Reading accounts, on here and elsewhere, of what mothers have to do to prepare their sons of color to survive in this world has been the number one thing that has made me want to do more to fight racism. I will never know what it is like to be a POC in America, but I do know what it is like to love your kids. I know what it is like to raise boys. And it enrages me and breaks my heart to think of all the mothers out there, loving their kids like I love mine and doing their best to raise them like I am, who have to worry about this bullshit. I do not see how anyone can hold their own baby in their arms and then read those stories and not care.

I am so grateful to those who have shared and educated, and so sorry to all those who have been hurt.

I'm here. How can we read (over and over again) the experiences of the WOC on here and IRL and not be touched and demand better? 

[underwaterrhymes]

Here is a short but not exhaustive list of ways you can do better.

If your racist Uncle Bob posts a racist meme, please do not breathlessly run back here and report back on how you defeated racism in a single blow by clicking the unfriend button.

If you say, "I'm here; I'm listening" mean it. These are hollow words unless you also participate in discussions on race. Call out racism when you see it. Don't get offended when someone says racism is pervasive. It is pervasive. It's not a southern thing. It's not an uneducated thing. It's not a thing in the past. And chances are you are also a little racist even if you don't mean to be.

Don't say you're colorblind. That's a lie and it's also not a goal.

Don't pat yourself on the back. I've been guilty of this myself. A lot of these threads feature a lot of white people talking about racism like it's not something they contribute to in any way. Every single white person contributes or has contributed to it at some point (even if they just benefit from it without actively contributing) so you are a part of a racist system.

Read about microagressions and watch your own behavior and phrases to avoid making them.

[SJ]

What @natariru bravely shared here is heartbreaking, but it is not new. She and many other posters have repeatedly tried to explain what their world and reality are like.

@natariru, you have always been one of my favorite posters and I am so sad that you no longer consider anyone here a friend. I never understood where the "mean" label came from- you simply spoke your mind and heart and truth. There is so much love and support for you here.

That's all I'm going to say for now because I am working hard on not always making things about me and my experience in a misguided effort to "relate". The truth is that my reality of raising daighters as a blonde haired Latina is really not at all comparable to raising black sons.

[underwaterrhymes]

Also, remember this community is not a bubble and if you are white, you do not get to decide what is racist and what is not.

Remember that @natariru and @wandering and @kirkette and Smo and many other women of color are members of our community and when they say they don't feel valued or there is a huge discrepancy between what people say and how they act with regard to racism, it is true and it is hurtful.

We can all see blatant instances of hatred and racism and acknowledge that we are not as far along as we think, but the internet is where some of the most insidious racism breeds. Read the comments in any news article ever and see what vile stuff people spew. Look at what happened to Leslie Jones. look at what people are saying about Colin Kaepernick or Simone Biles. Know that as shocking and disgusting people are on sites like Breitbart and Reddit, there are plenty of ways people are racist in more hidden (and often more hurtful ways).

And then think about what it feels like to have created what feels like genuine friendships with a group of women online but to constantly be waiting for the other shoe to drop. And when you let your guard down and then that other shoe does drop, how sad (but not shocked) you'd feel. And then watch that show drop over and over again.

That's what is happening here.

ETA - a very nice poster messaged me to make sure I hadn't confused Simone Biles with Gabby Douglas. I hadn't (http://deadspin.com/simone-biles-vs-the-racists-are-black-gymnasts-the-ne-1443998882) but you can look at Gabby Douglas as another example. Or Caster Semenya. Or really any person of color in the public eye.

[elleblue]

Sept 3, 2016 9:39:29 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Here is a short but not exhaustive list of ways you can do better.

If your racist Uncle Bob posts a racist meme, please do not breathlessly run back here and report back on how you defeated racism in a single blow by clicking the unfriend button.

If you say, "I'm here; I'm listening" mean it. These are hollow words unless you also participate in discussions on race. Call out racism when you see it. Don't get offended when someone says racism is pervasive. It is pervasive. It's not a southern thing. It's not an uneducated thing. It's not a thing in the past. And chances are you are also a little racist even if you don't mean to be.

Don't say you're colorblind. That's a lie and it's also not a goal.

Don't pat yourself on the back. I've been guilty of this myself. A lot of these threads feature a lot of white people talking about racism like it's not something they contribute to in any way. Every single white person contributes or has contributed to it at some point (even if they just benefit from it without actively contributing) so you are a part of a racist system.

Read about microagressions and watch your own behavior and phrases to avoid making them.

Quoting because this bears repeating. 

[osulori]

@natariru, I'm so sorry.

@supergreen, fuck right off with that shit. Seriously.

[jene]

@supergreen, since you are still showing up as online, you can fuck off. I thought you were leaving? It can't be soon enough

[lifetaketwo]

I'm so sorry @natariru I'm so sorry that you have to worry about your babies like this. I'm so sorry that we as a board let you down.

[jene]

@natariru, I'm sorry.

[lolo]

Sept 3, 2016 0:47:16 GMT -5 DesertMoon said:

@natariru

I know I don't really go here but,

I feel you on worrying about our sons future. Sometimes I don't even want to tell him were Arab. That's my privledge is my kids can hide. They can lie, say they're Any other race and people wouldn't doubt it. Still I don't want to rob them of their culture, but it is temping for their safety. You don't have that option, but your children have you, and I have no doubt you are and will continue to be a pillar of strength and wisdom to your children as they step out into a world that will notice their melanin levels before anything else. Where one child may be...slightly more privledged for being even a shade lighter. My heart goes out to you. I'm sending you lots of strength and girl/mommy power.

Liking in agreement that Nata's children are lucky to have her.

[ally83]

Where's swizz? Is she ever around for these discussions?
She's a regular in the Pokemon thread, but hasn't posted since this started blowing up. Has she posted in any of the board's race threads?

Learn better, do better. Willful ignorance for any reason is unacceptable.

[sju1982]

Although I haven't been active in the racial threads, I can honestly say they have served as a wake up call. It really drives home the importance of standing up for what's right. By doing nothing, you become part of the problem. And I had no idea how rampant these micro aggressions are, but these threads have really enlightened me and I feel so bad to have walked around with my head in the sand for so long. Although it is no one's responsibility to teach me anything, I am thankful for the many life lessons I have learned on GBCN, especially those related to race relations.

I agree wholeheartedly that racism deserves zero tolerance.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 10:46:26 GMT -5 ally83 said:

Where's swizz? Is she ever around for these discussions?
She's a regular in the Pokemon thread, but hasn't posted since this started blowing up. Has she posted in any of the board's race threads?

Learn better, do better. Willful ignorance for any reason is unacceptable.

First post?

[CloudBee]

Sept 3, 2016 10:46:26 GMT -5 ally83 said:

Where's swizz? Is she ever around for these discussions?
She's a regular in the Pokemon thread, but hasn't posted since this started blowing up. Has she posted in any of the board's race threads?

Learn better, do better. Willful ignorance for any reason is unacceptable.

Who the hell are you?

[quesyrah]

Supergreen- hopefully you're still reading even if not posting.

By continuing to post about Pokemon and ignoring the discussion on racism you're basically doing the online equivalent of walking into a room full of people discussing an egregious wrong done to members of a community and saying, "hey guys have you seen any Pokemon?"

Can you imagine how that would go over IRL?

You can clearly see the posts on the board and are choosing to ignore them.

(Et: I don't know how to tag via tapatalk)

[anna7602]

Sept 3, 2016 11:41:37 GMT -5 CloudBee said:

Sept 3, 2016 10:46:26 GMT -5 ally83 said:

Where's swizz ? Is she ever around for these discussions?
She's a regular in the Pokemon thread, but hasn't posted since this started blowing up. Has she posted in any of the board's race threads?

Learn better, do better. Willful ignorance for any reason is unacceptable.

Who the hell are you?

Well, duh, she's an "ally!" 

I think I am becoming unhinged. 

[karinothing]

Sept 3, 2016 11:43:02 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Supergreen- hopefully you're still reading even if not posting.

By continuing to post about Pokemon and ignoring the discussion on racism you're basically doing the online equivalent of walking into a room full of people discussing an egregious wrong done to members of a community and saying, "hey guys have you seen any Pokemon?"

Can you imagine how that would go over IRL?

You can clearly see the posts on the board and are choosing to ignore them.

(Et: I don't know how to tag via tapatalk)

I think this is a very good way to put it. The posts on these boards don't exist in a vacuum.

[Kit]

I don't "go here" and I only popped in to the Pokemon thread occasionally, so I actually didn't know what happened until the other links were posted within that thread. I spent the last hour or so reading everything.

I'm disgusted by people continuing to be racist assholes and as much as people say we need to do better, it seems like many people aren't "hearing that," or simply do not care. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BEFORE THE WORDS LEAVE YOUR MOUTH.

My heart breaks for the WOC on this board who have to deal with a bunch of ignorant people here and IRL.

I think IP bans are a good idea, and we should start now. Because if this fuckery doesn't deserve a ban, I don't know what does.

[karinothing]

@natariru I am so sorry. I am sorry that you have these worries for your sons. I am sorry that your sons have to live with this constant shadow/threat in their lives. I am very sorry that this board has failed you (and all WOC).

[kangaroo11]

I'm embarrassed by the bubble I grew up with and my lack of doing any learning outside of it. I am trying to read and catch up on everything (I rarely have the chance to read every thread here and just hit a few when I can), but I am getting books in an attempt to better myself and teach my daughter the things that were ignored when I was young.

[winecheery]

I have some things to say.  I am not a powerful voice in this community.  I contribute, but I do not think I am very present in the minds of many here as a leader of this board, which is fine.

But like so many here, I was up early this morning, thinking.  I thought long about how I wanted to post in response to these serious discussions, and in which thread, as there are so many of them that deserve contribution and attention.  

I have said before, I am the whitest Cuban you'll ever meet.  Which, if I'm being truthful, isn't even factual, or helpful when working on race relations and racial biases.  The fact is, the other part of me is Native American, which isn't exactly white either.  I know my tribe, and my clan, and we have exactly one acre of land left to us.  But I look white.  Olive tones, and I get a nice tan, but basically white.  I am not treated differently by society, and so I never even think of myself as what I am, what my heritage is, and where my roots are.  It is further complicated by the fact that I have no relationship with my father (Cuban side; by choice), and my mother has always referred to herself as white, despite being Native American, and not quite white at all.
 
I can remember several times in my childhood where I was asked "What are you?" because my skin was darker then, but I had blonder hair, and so I was a conundrum in the eyes of other children.  I was told in high school I wasn't Hispanic/Latina enough because I "didn't even speak Spanish."  As if that constitutes being a Cuban anyway.  

Older women in my area repeatedly come up to me and start actively having conversations with me in Spanish, and I feel about a million kinds of emotional about it, because I was never taught what my cousins were taught.  I celebrated turning sixteen; my cousins had a quinceneara.  My sisters and I discuss all this periodically.  I love my life and would change nothing, but it's very, very layered.

I do not mean to be another poster who comes across as making things all about me.  I share this tiny bit of background to explain where I'm coming from when I say that I have hesitated in replying in part because I'm not quite sure where I fit in.  I'm not a WOC.  I get that I will never ever truly understand things because of my skin color alone, plain and simple.  But then, I do get it a little bit and even receive some of it myself. (Not as much as an adult; not as much as many others.)

Accusing someone of not trying, caring, or being otherwise moved by what people have shared on here, simply because they don't sign in and report it is...not exactly right to me.  I do understand it, in that all we have here are our words.  We sit behind computer screens all over the world and type our innermost thoughts and feelings and though some of us have met and are IRL friends, the majority are still truly strangers.  So, the words we type are the only thing we have to represent whether or not someone is an ally, a changed person, or has stayed the same, ignorant person as before.  But I also think calling people out and forcing them to report in these threads doesn't determine whether or not they are out there IRL, fighting the fight, and speaking out against hate.  It doesn't make me believe they are "...the change they want to see in the world".

I am uncertain about where I fit in in my own racial identification, and am unsure if I am supposed to be one of the people apologizing, or if I should be acknowledging the apologies, and being glad to see people try and do better.  I can do better, regardless.  I think most people can.

I will be very sad indeed to lose so much wise perspective in all areas of parenting that the board discusses---from breastfeeding, and sleep training, to the serious things like being a good ally in race wars, and how to help a child cross gender barriers, and LGBT rights---if we lose the WOC posters due to so much hate and ignorance against them.

All this rambling to say, bottom line, I agree with the ban of racists.  I support the women who struggle day in and day out, with racial prejudice. The ones who truly feel belittled, ignored, hurt and insulted, simply because they are more "obviously" a different race.  The ones who fear for the lives of their children, and who must teach them things I don't have to teach mine about living in this world.  I'm sorry I didn't comment sooner, but hopefully this (long) post explains why I paused, and had to think long and hard before commenting.  Thanks for reading, if you did.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 3, 2016 11:37:26 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Sept 3, 2016 10:46:26 GMT -5 ally83 said:

Where's swizz? Is she ever around for these discussions?
She's a regular in the Pokemon thread, but hasn't posted since this started blowing up. Has she posted in any of the board's race threads?

Learn better, do better. Willful ignorance for any reason is unacceptable.

First post?

Ironic

[Velar Fricative]

My heart is with all of our WOC posters here. It is unfair that you have to live with the extra pain of knowing your children have to navigate a a world that just doesn't give a damn about them. And I also hate that you have to remind us of this over and over again because we just don't get it and we keep not getting it.

[osulori]

ally83, if you're going to try to call someone out the least you can do is do it under your regular SN. Come on now.

[lilybug]

I've always hated just echoing what others have said already, which is why I don't post too much over here - someone has already usually said what I was going to say. But in this case, silence is actually malicious rather than benign, so I'm posting.

I've learned so much about biases and microagressions, and I'm not afraid to call them out. I've been lucky to grow up and to raise my children in environments where white people are the minority, where they can be raised bilingual and exposed to many cultures, including support and acceptance of the non-white parts of their own heritage. But that doesn't give me some kind of "ally pass" to just nod along because I'm already doing the "right things" IRL. I'll admit that I initially bristled at the FUCK YOU, but after reading that we have members who are uncomfortable with people continuing to post unrelated threads, I absolutely stopped and evaluated myself. We need to change our status quo so that posters of any and every color feel comfortable bullshitting about pokemon or Hamilton or dolls or carseats. I try to think of it like a real life talk between friends. If I were really someone's friend, I wouldn't have a side-chat about Halloween costumes going on while they were feeling so hurt that they wanted to leave. That's ridiculous. We'd address who or what was making them uncomfortable, kick those people out, make changes, and continue to discuss it for AS LONG AS NEEDED until THEY felt like talking about ice cream flavors or football or whatever the fuck.

I really admire all the effort you all have put in to helping this community wake up to its flaws. It shouldn't be your responsibility, but you've done it, and I hope you can feel proud of your strength. My hope is that I can recognize ways to help you on here (without just being part of a useless "listening and learning" crowd of posts) rather than just making efforts in real life. I'm not super active here, but I do respect and admire many mmmoms posters, and when people you respect and admire are feeling this way, you can't lurk it out. I'm here for the changes, call outs, discussions, and rehabbing of this board into a better, safer place.

[felicity]

I'm not a super active poster but I do want to say I hate that WOC continue to be hurt by posters on this board. It is unacceptable. I hope we can really change things around here and that we (myself included) can all do better.