What White Posters Can Do

[starburst]

I'm still catching up on all the posts, but even with what I've read, it blows my mind that some people, such as supergreen, continue to make asinine remarks. Why would you deliberately offend someone?

The subject of race is one that my family is currently struggling with. My H is white, but I am a POC, so DS is obviously not white. It's taken awhile, but my very sheltered H is finally coming to the realization that DS is going to face obstacles in life because of that fact, especially since we live in a very non-diverse area. My heart breaks for all the posters who worry for their babies because of the color of their skin.

[scm1011]

I'm a little late and still catching up, but @natariru, my heart broke reading your post. I am so sorry that is your reality, and the reality of other WOC posters.

I hate that this is a conversation that needs to keep happening. How shameful.

[irish]

@natariru Thank you for being so open and straight about what the fears you and all WOC feel in bringing up children and sons in particular. You explained it so eloquently that one would have to be dead inside not to be moved by your words.

I have been silent on the subject so far as I've been playing catch up. I missed a lot of threads on this. But I did read some of TamiTaylor's posts including the sticky. I've read a number of the articles in that sticky and know I have a long way to go in understanding and changing. Whilst not in the US, racism raises its ugly head here too.

[wesleycrusher4ever]

I I'm just a lurker so take what I post with a grain of salt but... I don't understand the line of thinking about not wanting to say something because it would just be echoing what others said. If I started a post that said "SAHMs are just lazy people who don't want to work and use their kids as an excuse" it would get a lot of posts and responses that would be variations of the same thing and a post like "what can working moms do" would not be needed and no one would hesitate to say something and speak out against the bullshit I posted.

I'm a WOC and I notice that's it's always WOC and the SAME white posters who say something against racist posts. There were so many posts about that damn Ohio gorilla on every board and hardly any posts on the LE shootings of unarmed black people this summer (I only remember them on CEP).

Just own it that racism isn't a concern for the majority of y'all. Own it that next month someone is going to post that wise owl wasn't that bad and man I hope super green comes back. The majority has spoken (or in this case not spoken) and racism issues aren't an issue to y'all.

I've been a lurker for years (even before I joined) and I feel more comfortable posting on the WOC board and hope to become an active contributor there. I have to deal with micro aggressions and racist BS all day everyday IRL and will not willing accept it on a message board.

[t]

I haven't been on the boards too often lately, but every time I'm here I'm reading these posts that make me so sick for these awesome members of our community that go through this bullshit on the regular. I have learned a lot about myself from reading and reflecting and it has burst a bubble so to speak, living in a pretty homogenous area all my life. While I don't participate all that often here, I have become much more vocal IRL with calling out people in my own life and simply bringing to light the error of my own ways. I admit I'm not perfect and it's nobody's job here to teach me, but my awareness has increased in addition to my action.

I also realize that this is not about me, the white woman. I appreciate TamiTaylor for calling this out in the other thread. We just need to do better. Period.

[Deleted]

Oh supergreen.... Never failing to be ignorant.

[hbomdiggity]

I don't even know what post to respond to at this point, but I'm just sad. I'm sad for the woc that have to read the ignorant posts and defend themselves and sad that grown ass white women make such ignorant posts and then can't accept when they are in the wrong. I'm not sure how zero tolerance is even a question.

I do hope the board can return to what I love it for - informative and fun and supportive.

[bostonmichelle]

I've recently started lurking over here but felt I needed to say something and not sit by in silence. I'm going to read some more of the posts and articles.

@natariru's post is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm so sorry this is something you and other WOC have to endure. I hate that this conversation seems to keep happening.

[jln]

I don't respond frequently, but I do read most of the threads here and I have read all of the race threads posted over the last few days. I've been thinking about the privilege I was brought up with and how I can do better in my life and to help raise my sons so that they're able to recognize their own privilege and help prevent them from perpetuating microaggressions.

I did save the lists of books recommended for parents and children regarding race and I plan to check my local library for books off of those lists, so I can better educate myself and help my children grow to be more aware.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 19:04:41 GMT -5 @gracie6414 said:

Sept 3, 2016 18:45:21 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Take a damn seat, @this.
hbomdiggity, thank you for your words.

Was @this post out of line? I'm not sure I understand why?

Me either?? It seems like she was shutting down hbomdiggity, who was being asinine.

[rxbeth]

I'm more lurkery on this particular sub board, mainly sticking to SNR posts and Canadian related things (since this board seems to have the largest subset)

I'm familiar with @kirkette from my more active H&F days and skwcm80 and EnchantedSoul from the April board and all of you have opened my eyes to the struggles you have to deal with, particularly in regards to your children.  It hurts my heart that this is your reality.  

What I have taken away is that I need to be more vocal when I'm seeing blatant racism or microaggressions.  I'm taking baby steps and trying to do better every day.  I found that I really did have to come out of my comfort zone to confront some people on facebook but it, surprisingly, has had only positive results.  I have been predominantly silent on the board about it because I'm usually a late poster and don't want to jump up way after the fact but don't want people to think I'm not reading.

To all our WOC, I'm sorry this place doesn't feel safe or inviting.  We need to do better.

[CloudBee]

Sept 3, 2016 15:23:41 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

This is what really shook me. Placing myself in her shoes. We have kids who are the same age. I've never held my little boy in my arms and thought about his future in the same way. I don't have to. I've never held him in my arms and thought "will someone follow or question him in a store when he's 14 because his hands are in his pockets?"

I may never know what it's like, but at least now I have clear understanding. Relatable understanding - which is what most of us need to truly grasp. These are the personal stories that define racism. We need to listen and absorb. It can be difficult to grasp when you (many of us) are so far removed from the same realm of worry. But come on, it's time to start putting ourselves in the shoes of the WOC on this board and relate. Question how they may feel in any scenario you may be in at this very moment. Are you in the grocery store checkout line surrounded by people of your own race? If you were a WOC, how would you answer that question? I put myself in those shoes at the mall yesterday and man, I realized how isolating it can be. Now pretend you're a black 20 something year old male in the same spot. How do you think others view you in a passing glance? How does HIS mom worry about him on a daily basis vs. how we may worry about our (white) children?

Seriously. It's drastically different. And it's unfair. 


 

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 19:19:59 GMT -5 @this said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:11:30 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Me either?? It seems like she was shutting down hbomdiggity, who was being asinine.

I didn't think she was being asinine. It's just something that I know we've talked about before so I mentioned it. It's certainly not up to me to determine what's appropriate to be said and what's not though.

I just think she's saying " let's return to unsafe & unhealthy patterns of behavior bc FUN"

Which is sadly a common attitude.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 19:32:02 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:11:30 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Me either?? It seems like she was shutting down hbomdiggity , who was being asinine.

In what way was hbomdiggity being asinine?
Why, of all posters to speak out and attempt to correct, would someone come out and pick that post to take a stand against. What about hbomdiggity's words were out of line? To my knowledge, @hbombdiggity is one of the rare few that has not been full of shit in this area. 

Thus, given the posters characters and habits, it read like the inmates trying to take over the asylum. 
To which, I stand by my suggestion of  taking a damn seat.

Am I confused? She's saying " let's keep sticking our heads in the sand & return to unsafe behaviors because I as a person of privlege had fun then"

Am I misreading? It's possible?

[mishy]

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here and say it's bc @this is a prominent, well-liked poster here and in the midst of all these discussions this week, she made a token appearance here or there, especially relative to how much she is here. Beyond that, she started a post about her upcoming plan after her kid is born in December, detracting from these important conversations and contributing to the "let's return to our regularly scheduled programming" instead of confronting our discomfort and the hurt of so many WOC here. So that post was hypocritical and too little too late.

[mishy]

Sept 3, 2016 19:33:59 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:32:02 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

In what way was hbomdiggity being asinine?
Why, of all posters to speak out and attempt to correct, would someone come out and pick that post to take a stand against. What about hbomdiggity 's words were out of line? To my knowledge, @hbombdiggity is one of the rare few that has not been full of shit in this area. 

Thus, given the posters characters and habits, it read like the inmates trying to take over the asylum. 
To which, I stand by my suggestion of  taking a damn seat.

Am I confused? She's saying " let's keep sticking our heads in the sand & return to unsafe behaviors because I as a person of privlege had fun then"

Am I misreading? It's possible?

@this only quoted the last part of the comment. The rest of the comment provided context that didn't support your interpretation.

[hbomdiggity]

Sept 3, 2016 19:19:59 GMT -5 @this said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:11:30 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Me either?? It seems like she was shutting down hbomdiggity, who was being asinine.

I didn't think she was being asinine. It's just something that I know we've talked about before so I mentioned it. It's certainly not up to me to determine what's appropriate to be said and what's not though.

Thank you. I think "asinine" is a bit much and completely ignores the first part of my post.

I didn't intend for my "return to" to mean "let's forget this happened and go back to the good old days." Not at all. I meant "I hope we can move on." I want the board to survive this and be able to move on as an informed and supportive community, where the woc are respected, and not lose the valued contributions of kirkette and nata and others.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 19:40:43 GMT -5 mishy said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:33:59 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Am I confused? She's saying " let's keep sticking our heads in the sand & return to unsafe behaviors because I as a person of privlege had fun then"

Am I misreading? It's possible?

@this only quoted the last part of the comment. The rest of the comment provided context that didn't support your interpretation.

I think I may be having a reading comp fail.

[TamiTaylor]

I don't think we are in any position to have @kirkette explaining anything, most of all her feelings to us. So leave it be.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2016 19:41:51 GMT -5 hbomdiggity said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:19:59 GMT -5 @this said:

I didn't think she was being asinine. It's just something that I know we've talked about before so I mentioned it. It's certainly not up to me to determine what's appropriate to be said and what's not though.

Thank you. I think "asinine" is a bit much and completely ignores the first part of my post.

I didn't intend for my "return to" to mean "let's forget this happened and go back to the good old days." Not at all. I meant "I hope we can move on." I want the board to survive this and be able to move on as an informed and supportive community, where the woc are respected, and not lose the valued contributions of kirkette and nata and others.

I read the first part of your post, but I had a reading comp fail. My bad. Sorry

[lo]

All of us white people lining up and pledging to do better probably rings a bit (a lot) hollow at this point, and I think that the only way we are truly going to make this place welcoming for everyone is by our future actions. Microaggressions and racism will continue to occur here, there, and everywhere. The way we react, if we truly act like how we've promised and committed to, will show if we are genuine or full of shit. We got a ways to go!

[sookie]

I'm just now catching up fully on this thread, and as I was rocking DS to sleep I really thought through what natariru said about her DSs. As a white woman I can't imagine having to worry about my kids in that way, and as a human being I hate that ANYONE has to have those thoughts and concerns. It's a shitty world we live in and I pray for better for all of our children.

As I posted about earlier this week I'm switching DD and DS to a new daycare. Their current one is very predominantly white, which is just reflective of where we live, but the new one has a pretty good mix of backgrounds and ethnicities (though admittedly that wasn't a deciding factor). I don't believe that children should be raised color blind because that isn't realistic, and I'm glad that they'll have diversity in their friendships that will hopefully (with guidance from DH and myself) instill the belief that all people are created equal and should not be judged based off of a single factor (hair and eye color, skin color, where they were raised, who their parents are, etc.)

To the WOC who were hurt by the actions of the white posters, I am very sorry. I do hope that somehow this time will have made a difference and the board will change for the better - and stay that way.

[sookie]

Sept 3, 2016 20:05:32 GMT -5 cubed said:

Sept 3, 2016 8:52:42 GMT -5 @246baje said:

This I was reading @natariru's post and the responses thinking why are people acting like this is brand new information?

Like y'all don't remember the "what do you fear for your children" thread where white women posted things like that their kids won't like them or some shit and me and cubed posted that we were fearful of raising brown boys in this society with everything stacked against them and got crickets?

Oh cuz I do and it was ages ago.

This is why I find myself posting less and less on this board. You and I have said this stuff about our boys for years now.

I'll speak for myself here and no one else on the board. I'm not around enough (I've been here and then gone for months only to pop back in), so I don't know that I've caught those posts before. For me it really hit me in that I was really holding my son, who isn't much older than her youngest so it was easily "relatable" in that we're in similar stages but definitely not places. It was something that grabbed me because I've never considered a world where my kids are questioned by society, and it's bullshit that any child should be questioned based purely on the color of their skin (which you know and I'm not trying to present as a new fact).

[redheadbaker]

Sept 3, 2016 19:32:24 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:19:59 GMT -5 @this said:

I didn't think she was being asinine. It's just something that I know we've talked about before so I mentioned it. It's certainly not up to me to determine what's appropriate to be said and what's not though.

I just think she's saying " let's return to unsafe & unhealthy patterns of behavior bc FUN"

Which is sadly a common attitude.

That's how I read it, too. 

[timorousbeastie]

"I am here to listen to you, and I’m doing that." Donald Trump, in his speech to an AA church today.

I can't speak for every white person here, but there's nothing like seeing the same line that I and so many others here have used spoken by a racist shitpig to make me realize how utterly bullshit that line is.

I am sorry. I wish I knew what else to say, but I truly am sorry.

[kristenbell]

I'll be honest and say that I'm guilty of thinking that I'm doing enough when I'm not. I engage when I see microagressions or other racism IRL and on FB and I like to think I do a lot of self-checking on my own biases. But, I initially thought TT's call out was a bit much, and now I see I was wrong. Because the WOC did not, and it's not my feelings that matter here. I'm sorry, I see I still have a long way to go.

I don't think I can express appropriately how ashamed I feel that the WOC on this board have been hurt by our collective actions. In my white bubble, I can imagine but cannot even come close to understanding how racism effects your and your families' daily life.

@natariru, I hope it goes without saying (but I'm happy to shout it out) that you are one of the strongest, most dynamic people I've ever met. I hate that we live in a society where you have to fear for your boys.

@kirkette and cubed, the stories that you have posted, both recently and during other similar discussions - I just cannot convey how disgusted I am by what your families have had to endure.

I'm truly sorry that the WOC on this board have been hurt. underwaterrhymes, your post was really on point. Thank you.

[EllieArroway]

TBH, immediately banning anyone who posts anything racist seems to me like just another way to avoid having difficult or uncomfortable conversations.

I do want to make this entire community a more welcoming place for our WOC posters, but this feels fake to me, like just another way that we can pat ourselves on the back and keep ignoring our own problems.

Am I the only one?

[underwaterrhymes]

Sept 3, 2016 21:22:18 GMT -5 EllieArroway said:

TBH, immediately banning anyone who posts anything racist seems to me like just another way to avoid having difficult or uncomfortable conversations.

I do want to make this entire community a more welcoming place for our WOC posters, but this feels fake to me, like just another way that we can pat ourselves on the back and keep ignoring our own problems.

Am I the only one?

I also think it ignores the fact that although the racist comments themselves are gross, the fact that people ignore them is almost worse.

So banning the blatant racists does absolutely nothing for the more pervasive issue at hand here.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 3, 2016 21:22:18 GMT -5 EllieArroway said:

TBH, immediately banning anyone who posts anything racist seems to me like just another way to avoid having difficult or uncomfortable conversations.

I do want to make this entire community a more welcoming place for our WOC posters, but this feels fake to me, like just another way that we can pat ourselves on the back and keep ignoring our own problems.

Am I the only one?

No, we needed to do the heavy lifting. It should rest squarely on us as a community. I thought a lot about that last night and today. By us saying that we should have a WOC as ab admin with banning powers puts the burden on them and makes it easier for us white posters. It's unfair and not right. I hope that if we can come together as a community and speak up it should never have to get to the point of banning.

[katrinabennett]

Sept 3, 2016 21:22:18 GMT -5 EllieArroway said:

TBH, immediately banning anyone who posts anything racist seems to me like just another way to avoid having difficult or uncomfortable conversations.

I do want to make this entire community a more welcoming place for our WOC posters, but this feels fake to me, like just another way that we can pat ourselves on the back and keep ignoring our own problems.

Am I the only one?

I see where you are going here
It is on us, isn't it?


If janet comes in and says something racist.
We all pile on about how rude she is. We yell and comment away.
She comes back and apologizes from the bottom of her heart.

2 weeks later she posts about her new craft for kids and we all laugh and joke and move forward.
That's on us. We just let that comment go. We accepted her back into the fold because our own feelings weren't that hurt to start with.
And that is likely the biggest slap in the face to the WOC. All the rest of us moving on like it didn't even happen.

but then again, banning someone lets janet know she is out.
I don't know what to say.