What White Posters Can Do

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2016 15:44:02 GMT -5 belovedbride07 said:

Sept 4, 2016 14:46:53 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

I didn't mean that she didn't know what was going on. I meant that the boards may not have

I think you had an autocorrect fail that resulted in a "u" that should have been an "I" -- "I thought something was going on that *u* didn't know about."

Whoops autocorrect. Sorry I was literally posting from Trader Joes.

[raangoli]

Sept 4, 2016 15:33:00 GMT -5 starlily said:

Sept 4, 2016 15:11:48 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

FWIW, I do think she was trying to pass, and trying to get her son to pass too.

Well, Indian culture certainly does place a premium on having fair skin. It's one aspect of why Cookiemonster's post left me feeling really upset in a way I know I'm not going to articulate well. In addition to the general public who will give "extra points" for BHBE, there's an extra layer of bullshit in that my kids will face criticisms and commentary about their skintone from within their own community, especially with DD2 being so much lighter than DD1. Like, where the hell can they just be comfortable in their skin?

I still remember all the instant praise and adoration my SIL received from our community just because she's so fair. It was way over the top and the assumptions that she must be a great DIL because she's so pretty (i.e. fair) sting a lot since she turned out to be such a heinous bitch.

I was nodding my head reading your post. I was on the receiving end of a lot of nonsense growing up because I am not very fair skinned. I was told to scrub with chickpea flour and it would help. I wasn't thought of as being beautiful when compared to my cousin who is much lighter skinned. I would try to explain genetics to my aunt when she tried to lecture me about my skin color. It was fruitless.

A month ago my mom was talking to an aunt and she mentioned how my daughter looks like her (white) father. My aunt was all "well now I REALLY have to see a picture". GTFO with that nonsense. I shut that shit down.

I'm worried about raising my daughter in a culture that will automatically think she's beautiful because her skin is lighter. F that noise. Hearing that people give extra points for certain features cuts deep and across so many cultures.

I know this is not about me but I felt the need to share.

[DesertMoon]

Sept 4, 2016 16:15:45 GMT -5 raangoli said:

Sept 4, 2016 15:33:00 GMT -5 starlily said:

Well, Indian culture certainly does place a premium on having fair skin. It's one aspect of why Cookiemonster's post left me feeling really upset in a way I know I'm not going to articulate well. In addition to the general public who will give "extra points" for BHBE, there's an extra layer of bullshit in that my kids will face criticisms and commentary about their skintone from within their own community, especially with DD2 being so much lighter than DD1. Like, where the hell can they just be comfortable in their skin?

I still remember all the instant praise and adoration my SIL received from our community just because she's so fair. It was way over the top and the assumptions that she must be a great DIL because she's so pretty (i.e. fair) sting a lot since she turned out to be such a heinous bitch.

I was nodding my head reading your post. I was on the receiving end of a lot of nonsense growing up because I am not very fair skinned. I was told to scrub with chickpea flour and it would help. I wasn't thought of as being beautiful when compared to my cousin who is much lighter skinned. I would try to explain genetics to my aunt when she tried to lecture me about my skin color. It was fruitless.

A month ago my mom was talking to an aunt and she mentioned how my daughter looks like her (white) father. My aunt was all "well now I REALLY have to see a picture". GTFO with that nonsense. I shut that shit down.

I'm worried about raising my daughter in a culture that will automatically think she's beautiful because her skin is lighter. F that noise. Hearing that people give extra points for certain features cuts deep and across so many cultures.

I know this is not about me but I felt the need to share.

Same, even though both me and my husband are Arab, (I'm only half actually) I'm quite darker than him and my kids are Lilly white and my family was all whew! Thank god they arent dark like you. I used to be nicknamed "hindia" by my family as if it was an insult. They would tell me how ugly my great grandmother was because she was darker and had a small face (same traits I have) As I got older my "tan" became coveted so I just hope my kids will never adopt these notions which I firmly plan on eradicating in my family.

[krystee]

@kirkette I am really sorry for everything you have gone through on these boards. I was not a vocal ally at the time, and I deeply regret that. I now realize that by being a mostly silent supporter, I was actually a big part of the problem. I am so glad you have stayed throughout everything, and in the future, I will make sure I am part of the solution.

I know I have a long way to go--I echo @marshmallows that at first I thought TamiTaylor was being over the top by dropping into every thread with her posts. But she stood up for the right things when I have not, so I apologize to her too.

[sent]

Sept 4, 2016 16:15:45 GMT -5 raangoli said:

Sept 4, 2016 15:33:00 GMT -5 starlily said:

Well, Indian culture certainly does place a premium on having fair skin. It's one aspect of why Cookiemonster's post left me feeling really upset in a way I know I'm not going to articulate well. In addition to the general public who will give "extra points" for BHBE, there's an extra layer of bullshit in that my kids will face criticisms and commentary about their skintone from within their own community, especially with DD2 being so much lighter than DD1. Like, where the hell can they just be comfortable in their skin?

I still remember all the instant praise and adoration my SIL received from our community just because she's so fair. It was way over the top and the assumptions that she must be a great DIL because she's so pretty (i.e. fair) sting a lot since she turned out to be such a heinous bitch.

I was nodding my head reading your post. I was on the receiving end of a lot of nonsense growing up because I am not very fair skinned. I was told to scrub with chickpea flour and it would help. I wasn't thought of as being beautiful when compared to my cousin who is much lighter skinned. I would try to explain genetics to my aunt when she tried to lecture me about my skin color. It was fruitless.

A month ago my mom was talking to an aunt and she mentioned how my daughter looks like her (white) father. My aunt was all "well now I REALLY have to see a picture". GTFO with that nonsense. I shut that shit down.

I'm worried about raising my daughter in a culture that will automatically think she's beautiful because her skin is lighter. F that noise. Hearing that people give extra points for certain features cuts deep and across so many cultures.

I know this is not about me but I felt the need to share.

I grew up with similar nonsense. My knuckles are pigmented darker than my hands. My relatives and my mother Who were all much lighter in skin tone than me, all thought something was wrong with my skin. I even remember being Taken to a doctor and having them ask if there was anything that could be done to even out the skin tone on my knuckles. My knuckles!

[raangoli]

I'm sorry DesertMoon. I agree that these conventions of "beauty" will not be carried forward in my family.

sent OMG that's just foolishness. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[rikki]

Being a 15 hour time difference away and exhausted each night after a day of vacationing, I haven't had time to read or post, but I just read this entire post and my heart is broken. It's broken for the posters who have been hurt not only here, in our community, but in all areas of their lives. It's broken for my husband, who when opening up a new bank account puts on a suit and tie to to taken seriously since an insurance agent once told him he couldn't possibly be a lawyer. Or the multitude of times I've seen people cross the street when he is walking towards them at night. Or the bitch at a charity event giving him and his best friend nasty looks the whole night, as to why he would be there or how he afforded the ticket. Or the people who have laughed when he said he went to Harvard, and then said "no, where did you really go?"

Having lighter colored kids has been a challenge. I am very torn. I'm sick of people saying how cute mullato kids are (what the fuck am I supposed to say to that, who even uses that word?), or how they love mixed (are they ice cream falvors?), basically being objectified and used as some token for them to gain pleasure out of seeing. Stop touching their hair, they're not dogs. Will they be viewed as scary in a few years? Will it also be possible that they could of course never attend a decent school or succeed? At the same time, maybe their lightness will make them more accepted? I doubt it, they still have a lot more than one drop. I want them to be proud of who they are, their culture, their blackness.

I can't even begin imagine what it is like to be a POC in America. I've witnessed tiny glimpses, but that doesn't even scratch the surface. I will never pretend to know. Sorry if this makes no sense. I am crying pretty hard while writing it.

[kaycee]

[D2M]

I have been thinking all weekend and trying to wait until I'm in front of a computer to type, but it's time. White women, here's what we need to repeat to ourselves when we get called out on our bias, privilege, and racism: it's not about me. We may not burn crosses or use the n-word, but we are absolutely guilty of, "I didn't mean it that way!" and "what's so bad about saying XYZ?" It took reading @natariru's post while holding my own infant son for it to hit home with me that "I didn't mean it that way" is a slippery slope. If someone tells you you're being offensive, you (we) likely are. We need to take the heat, learn and do better -- a lot better.

I hope this doesn't sound like the onus should be on POC. I think the board collectively is good at pointing things out and having honest discussions, but I also realize that I'm viewing things through the lens of a white woman who doesn't face prejudice on a day-to-day basis. But it's not about me! I'm not sure if I'm expressing this properly (one handed while holding said baby). But I value this community and really want to do my part to not alienate or basically be an ass when contributing here.

[D2M]

sent raangoli DesertMoon it's shameful and embarrassing that it took your posts for me to realize that I need to shut down any/all comments on my childrens' complexion. I am guilty of what's-so-badding what I (through a lens of privilege) viewed as compliments. I'm sorry you had to deal with this BS. And I'm sorry for perpetuating it.

[bowies]

I'm still making my way through the threads over the past few days. I regret not being an active participant in these conversations. I want to be.

I'm sorry for not being a better ally. I still have my blind spots, which I need to acknowledge. It's also my instinct to want to cut ignorance and outright racism out of my life, and I need to work against that so I'm not leaving that burden for someone else. My silence isn't concurrence but it sure reads that way.

Thank you to those who continue have the patience to hold up the mirror to our words and actions. You shouldn't have to.

[rupertpenny]

I'm also just getting through this thread. My excuse is that I'm 12 hours ahead and everything usually happens while I'm asleep, but that is really just an excuse. I should not be afraid to participate just because a thread has died down.

I will say, GBCN (mostly PCE) has taught me so much about race, racism, and really about just being an empathetic person in general. It has caused me to do a lot of further reading on my own becaue I was woefully ignorant about race and racism. And really, this is what I don't understand: why do people choose to stay so ignorant? That certainly doesn't apply to everyone here, but plenty of posters seem determined NOT to learn. I guess some people value staying in their comforting bubble above all else, but I hate being wrong and I hate not knowing stuff. Sometimes these traits work against me, but I'm glad I can acknowledge I have been wrong about racial issues in the past and that now I know more than I did before.

On the other hand, I'm ashamed it took incidents of WOC on this board being harassed or sharing painful experiences to get me to pay attention. That is a damn shame and I am sorry for it.

[scribellesam]

Thank you to the WOC posters who share your experiences here. It takes a lot of bravery (which God knows I have extremely little of) to be honest and vulnerable. I'm impressed and inspired by you as mothers and as women.

Sorry, that sounds like I'm sucking up. I probably am a little, but I do mean it.

[Jalapeñomel]

I've had some time to read and think and here are some things I've really mulled over:

1) I remember that name post, and how much I tried to justify my reasoning, going around in circles, completely ignorant to what other posters were trying to tell me. And, frankly, it's embarrassing how long it took me to get it, but instead of deleting the post, like a coward, I left it there, and I actually re-read it. And I'm still embarrassed and ashamed at that post, especially at my responses in my post. And I am sorry that I didn't listen, that I didn't read. But now, I definitely think about that post a lot in a lot of ways, so, even though I was a total asshole, I think some good became of it.

2) I too, did not understand any back story to the Kirkette/booby situation, and I didn't actually listen to what was being said when it first started to go down. I wish I had really read those posts, at what Kirkette (and others) was saying, and I wish I had said something, done something, anything.

[kdubs923]

I finally made it to the end of the thread after being behind for days. I don't want to just check in with a 'Listening & learning' as I know I have more work to do than just listening and letting everyone educate me.

I'm sorry I haven't been a more active ally to the WOC on this board. I promise to do better bcause you deserve better.

[undecidedowl]

I'm out of town with no wifi but I'm doing my best to keep up. These threads and topics are on my mind all day even when I can't get on to read and comment.

I don't need to go back and read the threads about Kirkette's harassment because I remember my role. And it wasn't a good one. I made a joke at her expense rather than opening my eyes to reality. I know she will never forget those days so I need to never forget them either. I apologize again for being a part of the problem. I know I can never take it back

My heart is heavy for how little we have improved and how much the WOC are still hurting. It's not fair. I'm so sorry.

[Beeps (WOT?*)]

I just wanted to add that yes, I read this post (finally) and I do struggle but I do try. I had a depressing talk with my DD1, who XH and I raised in the manner in which we were raised, to be "colorblind" because we all bleed red, blah blah blah. I'm sure a number of you can remember a few years ago when you all kicked my ass with some of the comments I made back then. I had a conversation with her regarding this, and she stuck to her "I know cops and blah blah" to the extent that she had a panic attack (she has developed anxiety issues that have compounded since the birth of GD3, it seems) because she was adamant that I was calling her a racist. The conversations we have here, and the things I have learned, which I didn't have with her when she was younger because I was ignorant and raised wrong in a bubble of white privilege. But I'm doing what I can to get her to see where I went wrong. Because that was my comment to her. *I* raised her that way. *I* was wrong. And even though she's an adult, it's still my job to teach if I learn something, because she's still my kid. But on an easier note, I have the opportunity to raise my grandchildren to understand that we aren't all seen in the same light because our outsides are different and too many (who are NOT me or mine) will suffer because of it. It's my job to teach my kids and grandkids that I was wrong.

And with that, I will say that I am sorry for perpetuating the "colorblind" myth, that prejudice doesn't exist if we don't acknowledge it. I am doing my best IRL to undo the damage that I have caused.

[vtdiamond]

I have been out of town this weekend but have finally caught up on these posts. I have learned so much from these posts. I feel truly terrible reading the concerns that the woc have to face on a daily basis. This is a community that I've been part of for some time. As a community member it is my and everyone else's responsibility to be respectful of one another and proactive when someone is not. It's not ok for anyone to feel attacked or belittled here. I will do better going forward.

[Deleted]

As a regular on Money Matters, I occasionally click into MM Moms, and did so this morning. The tangible steps that were recommended by other posters are really appreciated. Not only the articles and resources, but even the specific tagging / calling out of comments and approaches that aren't helpful.

The mentality of "I just want this community to go back to what it was," does mean that ignorant comments remain unaddressed and microaggressions are frustratingly absorbed or - unfortunately - are addressed by a POC, when all of us have a responsibility to make this community and the larger communities in which we participate better and stronger. I say "unfortunately" because there is nothing so wonderful as having someone step in on your behalf - an ally is an amazing, powerful thing.

Like others, I've learned a lot from this community and continue to check my own privilege - but also have a deep desire to contribute IRL in a more meaningful, consistent and powerful way. This community provides great ideas on how to do so.

And FWIW, I'm in agreement with where it seems the community has landed - that IP banning should be pursued when warranted - bullying and trolling, but that ignorant comments should first be met with a real-life smack in the face with reality....if a poster is willfully ignorant, that they should be permitted to show their ass prior to any pursuit of banning. While I stand by, "When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time,” I also believe that many of us (hell, myself included) welcome the opportunity to evolve - and I believe in the value of real-life / online dialogue as a way to do that.

One of the barriers my company D&I groups have in gaining allies is the fear of an ally "saying something wrong" that will be perceived as ignorant or uninformed - this causes many white men to engage at an arm's length will all of our groups, and straight folks to cautiously approach our LGBTQ group, and whites to tentatively engage with our ethnic and cultural diversity group, etc...I share this because I believe when you are engaging as an ally you WILL occasionally say / do something "wrong," - but the moment you are corrected, you then become even more well-informed and able to correct / inform the next person, etc.

We can do better. So - let's.

[glauren]

I know I'm an infrequent poster, but I want to say I am so sorry to all the WOC on this board for not being a vocal ally. I promise to do better and to raise my DS to do the same. I don't want MMM to lose this momentum and I promise to do my part to keep us moving forward.

[MamaMaui24]

I've been posting more and more infrequently, but just wanted to add my support to the WOC on this board.

I hate that this group hasn't been more compassionate, understanding, and celebratory of our differences, but like others have said, when you know better, do better. And I hope we can continue to grow and learn to be more supportive of our fellow moms.

Even if I'm not posting much, I am reading and learning, so I can be a better human and mom.

[jackie011]

I've caught up on most of the posts this week. I am sick that we've hurt WOC who no longer feel valued and respected because of simply who they are. I am grateful that we have the opportunity to have frank discussions and a variety of perspectives.

[operagirl]

It is hard for me to be so public, but it is more important to speak up.  As a child, I witnessed segregation: white and colored bathrooms with locked adjoining doors, colored sections in restaurants, buses, etc. I heard my parents say the N word.  I didn't understand why my Birmingham raised mother said I couldn't drink from the colored water fountain because "they are dirty." They looked the same as me. My Catholic grade school was all white, high school had 4 African American students in a class of 300.  I dated a couple black men in college, marched for integration and civil rights; tried to be an inclusive manager.  My daughter wore five pigtails just like her best friend and it broke my heart to explain the history of segregation, violence and injustice to her. However, like Beeps (WOT?*), I thought "color blind" was the objective.

My late in life education here taught me so much more: failures to recognize micro-aggressions; to think I "know what she meant" instead of feeling what WOC must feel; to avoid controversy because it's uncomfortable.  I will do better.  

[djc315]

I'm finally caught up and didn't want my silence to be mistaken for not caring.

Reading through all the posts made me realize that I do need to work on asserting my views more. I was lucky to go to a diverse school, and learned a lot because of that, but I really need to speak up to make a difference.

I am so sad that the WOC give so much to this board, yet feel so uncomfortable here. I apologize for my silence and hope that we can truly do better.

[indifferentstars]

I've typed and deleted a response to this post many times but I feel weird commenting on these posts as I'm not an active poster but certainly don't want lack of a comment to be misinterpreted. These boards as a whole have taught me so much and opened my eyes to so many things. I know talk is cheap, but truly, thanks to discussions here I am working on confronting my own biases and attitudes, engaging in real life conversations, and educating myself about topics I probably would never have if not for these boards. My goal is to raise my son with different attitudes and understanding of racial issues than I was raised. I'm sorry this was ever an unwelcoming or uncomfortable place for valuable members of this community and vow to be part of the change here.

[irish]

I've been reading.

From Negroland:

"And white women can reform nothing until and unless they are willing to relinquish their caste privilege, those codes of racial and social superiority they extol in their men and instill in their children."

In relation to 1890's civil rights activities.

[Bernadine]

I'm still making my way through this thread, but I wanted to say- I know that WOC don't owe it to us to educate us, but I sincerely appreciate when you do. And I'm embarrassed that you have to keep doing so.

[gt7301b]

I've been out of town and am trying to catch up on all these posts. My heart is heavy for everything that the WOC have to deal with. As any mother does I worry about what the future holds for my son, but I realize my worries are nothing compared to what others on this board have to deal with.

[Deleted]

I am so sorry that this has come up again and again on GBCN. I hate that so many of you have been made to feel unwelcome and/or othered by things said here.

I don't post as much as I used to, but I do read when I have time and post a bit here and there. I have been trying to be more aware of microaggressions IRL and I guess I've been lazy about noticing them here until someone else has already pointed it out (maybe partly because I'm often late to threads, but that's not a good enough excuse). I want to be a better ally. I want the women of color here to know how much I appreciate them for all they add to these boards, and also for helping me learn even though it hasn't been your job to do so. I honestly have had my eyes opened by many of the stories and honest feelings shared here, and I hope that I am doing better as a result. I am absolutely striving to do better and I have you to thank for that.

[maryanne]

Wow. I haven't been on the boards for a while and saw that @kirkette had tagged me, so I'm working my way through this thread and just ugh. I cannot believe some people were asking for kirkette to be banned?! For what, WTF?!  I didn't know about that, but that is just insane.