The thing is ( and I LEARNED this ) that I don't ever EVER have to agree with a SINGLE THING that @kirkette or @natariru ( not even on race, but in general, no one agrees with someone else 100 percent of the time) or ANYONE SAYS ( truly I don't) and I can SAY " I don't agree with you." AND we can have a real conversation about it OR NOT BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE DON'T, AND JUST MOVE ON ( like about car seats or whatever). I have ACTUALLY seen people flame each other over CARSEATS and UNCRUSTABLES more than I have seen people speak up for what matters.
WHAT I CAN'T DO IS SAY " YOUR FEELINGS AND EXPERIENCES AREN'T REAL BECAUSE THEY AREN'T MINE!!!" " I'M GONNA MAKE A GOSSIP TRAIN ABOUT YOU AND LEAVE YOU OUT AND TREAT YOU LIKE SHIT BEHIND YOUR BACK, BUT BE NICE TO YOUR FACE"
Somedays I DON'T AGREE with things @kirkette or TamiTaylor or @natariru say JUST LIKE I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THINGS 90 PERCENT OF POSTERS SAY ALL THE TIME. Honestly, I can't think of a poster here who hasn't made me roll my eyes at least once, and I am sure that you are all rolling your eyes at me ALL THE TIME. That's okay. It's not okay to YES someone to death to their face and then make an online burn book behind their back OKAY REGINA GEORGES!!
I had my I am a white liberal racist realization last year.
I think someone said it is like AA, you have to admit there is a problem. Then you have to be open to the criticism and the uncomfortableness. This is one of the main reasons I won't give up this place. If I didn't constantly have my privilege checked, I would be going around with my head up my ass per usual. Because my life is in a bubble.
Anyways, everyone needs to admit they have a problem. And the problem isn't "I don't like brown people" it is the micro aggression things like thinking piercing a baby's ears is weird. Or feeling policed because you can no longer talk about fluff on your silly fluff board. All of us still have a problem, even the people who are astonished and disappointed how shit has gone down the past couple weeks.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
In my personal opinion, if it was a poster that did not stand up for herself, I don't think anyone would defend them. When a person does stand up for them self and point out the injustice, more people are likely to assist. If this was someone who was shy or less direct and didnt speak up, this board would never see what flaming assholes look like. Honesty most people do not have the patience for this and would just dip.
I was wondering the same thing. Would this have been fine if it were another less active poster? Or someone who was BEC?
I'm guessing so bc the opposite is happening in here too. Plenty of popular white posters are being shitty and they barely get any heat.
I will never understand the fangirl behavior that goes on in this place with some of the so called "popular posters" Some of those so called posters are downright racist bitches.
yup. Or scared of them. See tam lamb or whatever the f her name is when she defended lucy and Debbie downer toledo. The fuck.
Post by cincodemayo on Sept 9, 2016 9:14:41 GMT -5
I don't want to be silent here because it feels like admission of guilt. But I am guilty. I am white and I am privileged by that. I have unconscious bias and most certainly have committed microaggresions. I need to be aware of that ALL of the time, not just when it comes up on this board. I am saddened and disgusted by what has happened here and want so much better for my communities, here and IRL.
The thing is ( and I LEARNED this ) that I don't ever EVER have to agree with a SINGLE THING that @kirkette or @natariru ( not even on race, but in general, no one agrees with someone else 100 percent of the time) or ANYONE SAYS ( truly I don't) and I can SAY " I don't agree with you." AND we can have a real conversation about it OR NOT BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE DON'T, AND JUST MOVE ON ( like about car seats or whatever). I have ACTUALLY seen people flame each other over CARSEATS and UNCRUSTABLES more than I have seen people speak up for what matters.
WHAT I CAN'T DO IS SAY " YOUR FEELINGS AND EXPERIENCES AREN'T REAL BECAUSE THEY AREN'T MINE!!!" " I'M GONNA MAKE A GOSSIP TRAIN ABOUT YOU AND LEAVE YOU OUT AND TREAT YOU LIKE SHIT BEHIND YOUR BACK, BUT BE NICE TO YOUR FACE"
Somedays I DON'T AGREE with things @kirkette or TamiTaylor or @natariru say JUST LIKE I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THINGS 90 PERCENT OF POSTERS SAY ALL THE TIME. Honestly, I can't think of a poster here who hasn't made me roll my eyes at least once, and I am sure that you are all rolling your eyes at me ALL THE TIME. That's okay. It's not okay to YES someone to death to their face and then make an online burn book behind their back OKAY REGINA GEORGES!!
This is the most disgusting thing of all. The amount of time spent on such stupid, mundane shit.
We are raising the next generation of children and we can't bother/care to try to be decent people ourselves. To understand the privilege we possess because we happened to be born from white parents. To acknowledge our bias and do better and model better behavior. To treat others with respect.
What is the average age of this board - 30 something. We are all old enough and should KNOW BETTER.
I remember a poster, I can't remember who saying they came here to talk about frivolous stuff and did not want to have the difficult conversations. How difficult is it to not be a piece of shit.
It is fucking mind-boggling.
I am sorry to all of the WOC that have posted here and had to deal with this continued disgusting behavior. We white posters continue to show how shitty we are. The self-absorption, racism, and inability to see outside of our bubbles is pathetic.
I am definitely guilty of the the 'educated, liberal, Liberal, better than racists' attitude. I am ashamed of that, of the micro-aggressions I have committed, and continue to commit. I try, now, to question myself when I react certain ways to threads/posts/comments, to identify my privilege in my reaction.
The thing is ( and I LEARNED this ) that I don't ever EVER have to agree with a SINGLE THING that @kirkette or @natariru ( not even on race, but in general, no one agrees with someone else 100 percent of the time) or ANYONE SAYS ( truly I don't) and I can SAY " I don't agree with you." AND we can have a real conversation about it OR NOT BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE DON'T, AND JUST MOVE ON ( like about car seats or whatever). I have ACTUALLY seen people flame each other over CARSEATS and UNCRUSTABLES more than I have seen people speak up for what matters.
WHAT I CAN'T DO IS SAY " YOUR FEELINGS AND EXPERIENCES AREN'T REAL BECAUSE THEY AREN'T MINE!!!" " I'M GONNA MAKE A GOSSIP TRAIN ABOUT YOU AND LEAVE YOU OUT AND TREAT YOU LIKE SHIT BEHIND YOUR BACK, BUT BE NICE TO YOUR FACE"
Somedays I DON'T AGREE with things @kirkette or TamiTaylor or @natariru say JUST LIKE I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THINGS 90 PERCENT OF POSTERS SAY ALL THE TIME. Honestly, I can't think of a poster here who hasn't made me roll my eyes at least once, and I am sure that you are all rolling your eyes at me ALL THE TIME. That's okay. It's not okay to YES someone to death to their face and then make an online burn book behind their back OKAY REGINA GEORGES!!
Yes I think this is very true, I've only read a few random pages in this thread so far to see what was blowing up (will have to read thoroughly over the weekend). I'm sure I'll have something more to say when I someday get through it. 28 pages...
The thing is ( and I LEARNED this ) that I don't ever EVER have to agree with a SINGLE THING that @kirkette or @natariru ( not even on race, but in general, no one agrees with someone else 100 percent of the time) or ANYONE SAYS ( truly I don't) and I can SAY " I don't agree with you." AND we can have a real conversation about it OR NOT BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE DON'T, AND JUST MOVE ON ( like about car seats or whatever). I have ACTUALLY seen people flame each other over CARSEATS and UNCRUSTABLES more than I have seen people speak up for what matters.
WHAT I CAN'T DO IS SAY " YOUR FEELINGS AND EXPERIENCES AREN'T REAL BECAUSE THEY AREN'T MINE!!!" " I'M GONNA MAKE A GOSSIP TRAIN ABOUT YOU AND LEAVE YOU OUT AND TREAT YOU LIKE SHIT BEHIND YOUR BACK, BUT BE NICE TO YOUR FACE"
Somedays I DON'T AGREE with things @kirkette or TamiTaylor or @natariru say JUST LIKE I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THINGS 90 PERCENT OF POSTERS SAY ALL THE TIME. Honestly, I can't think of a poster here who hasn't made me roll my eyes at least once, and I am sure that you are all rolling your eyes at me ALL THE TIME. That's okay. It's not okay to YES someone to death to their face and then make an online burn book behind their back OKAY REGINA GEORGES!!
This is the most disgusting thing of all. The amount of time spent on such stupid, mundane shit.
We are raising the next generation of children and we can't bother/care to try to be decent people ourselves. To understand the privilege we possess because we happened to be born from white parents. To acknowledge our bias and do better and model better behavior. To treat others with respect.
What is the average age of this board - 30 something. We are all old enough and should KNOW BETTER.
I remember a poster, I can't remember who saying they came here to talk about frivolous stuff and did not want to have the difficult conversations. How difficult is it to not be a piece of shit.
It is fucking mind-boggling.
I am sorry to all of the WOC that have posted here and had to deal with this continued disgusting behavior. We white posters continue to show how shitty we are. The self-absorption, racism, and inability to see outside of our bubbles is pathetic.
Ditto. I am sure I have shown my ass in the past and I am embarrassed for that. We should be actually benefiting from these discussions instead of just paying lip service to them. How are our kids going to know better if grown women don't even know better?
It's no secret on here that jessnpaul is one my best friends IRL. I have known her for many, many years. She is fiercely loyal to her friends, and she considered @natatiru a friend. I'm guessing she didn't realize this was a mass defending, and took it personally.
I fully expect that people who don't know her will flame me for this, and I really hope nata herself won't hate me, because I do value her friendship. For my part, I really, truly have been examining myself and my biases since the BHBE comment started. I haven't spoken up as much as I should, because being forced to recognize some of my own ignorance (my feelings about my own fair, blue-eyed baby, as a dark, hairy Italian in an area of the country where that carries certain presumptions [but is not even a small fraction of what WOC face], my feelings on my Irish married last name vs my very long and Italian maiden name) has made me feel I was not in a position to throw stones. I am trying to be better. But I understand that people don't want to hear it from me. I even accept "fuck yous." I will still try to be better.
I'm not going to touch most of what's in this thread but this is in my lane as an Italian-American with a blond blue-eyed child so here's something to consider: Historically, light skinned POC "passed" as Italian. That means WE enjoy the privilege, not that we are sisters with our WOC. (That might not be what you were trying to imply but it does read that way.)
If you've experienced someone sexualizing you or making assumptions about your family's history in the mob, your intelligence, your class, your temper or IDK, hairiness, it's a good starting place for examining that stereotypes of all types are harmful but to also understand that what you experience does not impact every moment of your day, from your first breath to supporting your family, to shopping pretty much anywhere, to getting a simple traffic ticket as it does for POC.
My child might not look like me or have my name but he wouldn't be in danger if he was. Ask yourself why that is. Consider that while many ethnic groups are able to assimilate, POC are still having the same conversation. Realize that while we can leave this conversation behind when we find it uncomfortable or be outraged in at our convenience, it is not up to us to decide what is "too much" or when it's time to talk about Janie and Jack again. God knows I'm not perfect but that's where I start.
I will never understand the fangirl behavior that goes on in this place with some of the so called "popular posters" Some of those so called posters are downright racist bitches.
It's always strikes me as a popularity contest. "OH- *I* know **insert popular poster** in a way you don't (we're friends IRL/ we're FB friends/ we both belong to ___ secret FB group - tee hee hee)". And I've never understood it either.
Oh, so you (unknown person) are super good friends with (another unknown person) Cool story.
Why on earth do people think it is okay to chat about when their baby rolled over or what the gap between their kids is right now? Does anyone care?
I think the same poster started both threads. Has she posted here at all? I haven't noticed all the specific names.
@bigreddog started the threads before this thread was started. She has not posted in them since this thread and posted in here once. I am more WTFing the people in there responding now. Why? Do you feel so completely compelled to talk about yourself at any given opportunity that you just can't pass up the chance to tell some strangers online when your kid rolled over, regardless of what else is happening around you?
I will never understand the fangirl behavior that goes on in this place with some of the so called "popular posters" Some of those so called posters are downright racist bitches.
It's always strikes me as a popularity contest. "OH- *I* know **insert popular poster** in a way you don't (we're friends IRL/ we're FB friends/ we both belong to ___ secret FB group - tee hee hee)". And I've never understood it either.
Oh, so you (unknown person) are super good friends with (another unknown person) Cool story.
(Unknown to me, that is!)
There is some of this (especially with the intimations of off board gossip which we now know are fact) and also I think other people are just plain scared of them and that they might turn their sharpness on them. So they suck up to popular posters and fan girl them (see: every circle jerk ever posted). It's classic middle school mean girl behavior. It baffles me when I see grown adults engaging in it though.
I think the same poster started both threads. Has she posted here at all? I haven't noticed all the specific names.
@bigreddog started the threads before this thread was started. She has not posted in them since this thread and posted in here once. I am more WTFing the people in there responding now. Why? Do you feel so completely compelled to talk about yourself at any given opportunity that you just can't pass up the chance to tell some strangers online when your kid rolled over, regardless of what else is happening around you?
How are people going to know my baby is the most advanced baby ever if I don't tell them??
I think the same poster started both threads. Has she posted here at all? I haven't noticed all the specific names.
@bigreddog started the threads before this thread was started. She has not posted in them since this thread and posted in here once. I am more WTFing the people in there responding now. Why? Do you feel so completely compelled to talk about yourself at any given opportunity that you just can't pass up the chance to tell some strangers online when your kid rolled over, regardless of what else is happening around you?
Post by spaghettisquash on Sept 9, 2016 9:37:04 GMT -5
I think it's easy in the abstract to say that you're listening, learning etc. But actually confronting your white privilege is difficult and it doesn't end- you have to keep doing it and doing it and doing it.
I didn't know about white privilege or micro-aggressive behavior until I met my husband and started listening to his stories, and the stories of his friends and family, and until he called me out on some of it or I recognized my behavior in his stories. It's been an eye-opening experience over the past 10 years. Now that I'm raising children, it's something we confront daily. I think the thread that angered me the most on here was the thread where a mother of a multiracial kid shared that people don't think she's the mom because she doesn't look like her kid. And women chimed in with oh yes, my daughter is a blonde and I'm a brunette and we don't look anything alike. No, that's not the same thing at all. You're not confused for the nanny or have overly inquisitive people ask what your kids are and why they don't look like you. Or ask what their 'mix' is like they are some sort of dog.
also I think other people are just plain scared of them and that they might turn their sharpness on them. So they suck up to popular posters and fan girl them (see: every circle jerk ever posted). It's classic middle school mean girl behavior. It baffles me when I see grown adults engaging in it though.
Why on earth do people think it is okay to chat about when their baby rolled over or what the gap between their kids is right now? Does anyone care?
It's very annoying and upsetting that people are OMG my baby rolled over so early. F all those people. Focus on the topic at hand. I am legit ^o) that people keep posting in these threads.
I think the same poster started both threads. Has she posted here at all? I haven't noticed all the specific names.
@bigreddog started the threads before this thread was started. She has not posted in them since this thread and posted in here once. I am more WTFing the people in there responding now. Why? Do you feel so completely compelled to talk about yourself at any given opportunity that you just can't pass up the chance to tell some strangers online when your kid rolled over, regardless of what else is happening around you?
People were still posting their bubble scores on PAGE THREE of that stupid Charles Murray quiz after being told that hey, the quiz is based on racist assumptions! So this is...not surprising.
I was excited to see @natariru posted...until I saw what it was about.
WTF.
Who did they think you were friends with anyway?
I'm glad this is your one and only contribution to this thread. Frankly, I'm shocked to see you in here at all. I know we're all waiting on pins and needles hoping you found your Murder Mystery party dress.
It's no secret on here that jessnpaul is one my best friends IRL. I have known her for many, many years. She is fiercely loyal to her friends, and she considered @natatiru a friend. I'm guessing she didn't realize this was a mass defending, and took it personally.
I fully expect that people who don't know her will flame me for this, and I really hope nata herself won't hate me, because I do value her friendship. For my part, I really, truly have been examining myself and my biases since the BHBE comment started. I haven't spoken up as much as I should, because being forced to recognize some of my own ignorance (my feelings about my own fair, blue-eyed baby, as a dark, hairy Italian in an area of the country where that carries certain presumptions [but is not even a small fraction of what WOC face], my feelings on my Irish married last name vs my very long and Italian maiden name) has made me feel I was not in a position to throw stones. I am trying to be better. But I understand that people don't want to hear it from me. I even accept "fuck yous." I will still try to be better.
I'm not going to touch most of what's in this thread but this is in my lane as an Italian-American with a blond blue-eyed child so here's something to consider: Historically, light skinned POC "passed" as Italian. That means WE enjoy the privilege, not that we are sisters with our WOC. (That might not be what you were trying to imply but it does read that way.)
If you've experienced someone sexualizing you or making assumptions about your family's history in the mob, your intelligence, your class, your temper or IDK, hairiness, it's a good starting place for examining that stereotypes of all types are harmful but to also understand that what you experience does not impact every moment of your day, from your first breath to supporting your family, to shopping pretty much anywhere, to getting a simple traffic ticket as it does for POC.
My child might not look like me or have my name but he wouldn't be in danger if he was. Ask yourself why that is. Consider that while many ethnic groups are able to assimilate, POC are still having the same conversation. Realize that while we can leave this conversation behind when we find it uncomfortable or be outraged in at our convenience, it is not up to us to decide what is "too much" or when it's time to talk about Janie and Jack again. God knows I'm not perfect but that's where I start.
I absolutely agree. This is what I was trying to convey but you said it much more eloquently.
I was excited to see @natariru posted...until I saw what it was about.
WTF.
Who did they think you were friends with anyway?
I'm glad this is your one and only contribution to this thread. Frankly, I'm shocked to see you in here at all. I know we're all waiting on pins and needles hoping you found your Murder Mystery party dress.
I didn't open the "do you think your kid is cute" thread because I didn't really care about it and assumed it was about cute kids when I posted my murder mystery thread post. If you have something else you want to say about me go for it. I am reading the discussion and liking posts I agree with but I honestly don't have anything to add.
(I left out an important name redaction, pic back in one min)
(Further redacted Picture is back)
I just wanted to make it clear that while I did disagree a lot with TamiTaylor 's methods and I did participate in conversations outside race during this time. I DID stand up for Natariru. I did shut it down when she was removed. Like most posters, who have relationships outside the board we discussed things outside the board, but I did not do so to exclude a person who was my friend.
...
No, no you didn't. You did not say "WTF - why was she deleted? That's fucked up." You said "I don't care if she finds out [that we are talking shit on the stupid race bullshit]." You did not object to her being removed and just wanted to clarify why.