I don't know most of you but I adore many of the women here who post on CEP. They are probably some of my favorite posters and truly valuable members of this community who bring so much to the table and aren't just basic, interchangeable UMC white ladies like the vast majority that populate GBCN. Y'all should be rolling out the red carpet for these wonderful women, yet you aren't. Why do you suppose that is?
This whole thread on CEP is worth a read, but if any of you really want to reflect and examine yourselves and try to change and do better, I specifically suggest a post of mine on this page about UMC white mothers and why they act the way they do. It's not pretty. It's not something that you will want to see yourself in...but even if you won't admit it out loud or to anyone but yourself, I bet very many of you see truth in it.
I'm sorry, I fucked up and I've been an asshole. I want to make this better so that I never cause another person pain again. I have no excuses...,I'm just humbly sorry, I won't ask you to forgive me, all I can promise is that you WILL see that I've changed for the better.
Wrong apology:
Everything in this thread
It just proves that they haven't read any of the past threads. Or they have really horrible reading comprehension. Bc they keep making the same mistakes over and over.
You can only bring a horse to water, can't make them drink. Sorry girl, you've tried more than most WOC would have. I think these horses are too stubborn for your patience.
Post by Velar Fricative on Sept 9, 2016 7:38:31 GMT -5
I don't care that lindsaymg was defending @natariru. That doesn't excuse what she said earlier in the thread (so, several days after she defended her) about how you can't force people to have conversations they don't want to have. Fuck that.
I keep typing and retyping responses and can't come up with the right words. I post occasionally on this board and have always felt it was a little cliquish and group thinky. My suspicions were confirmed. What a disgusting display. Yuck. I'm trying to take some positivity out of all this negativity and educate myself on my own white privilege. I grew up in VA and realize now how racist an education I received. For anyone interested, I found this great list of books about slavery. I figured I might as well start at the beginning and work my up through the civil rights era and today.
(I left out an important name redaction, pic back in one min)
(Further redacted Picture is back)
I just wanted to make it clear that while I did disagree a lot with TamiTaylor 's methods and I did participate in conversations outside race during this time. I DID stand up for Natariru. I did shut it down when she was removed. Like most posters, who have relationships outside the board we discussed things outside the board, but I did not do so to exclude a person who was my friend.
This is the same point in the conversation Natariru screen shot yesterday, only she cut off my comment that was mere seconds after the initial call out. If you want to see the less redacted names, the first post shows all these comments in a less redacted form.
I know it won't matter to people who have their mind made up about me, but I just didn't think it was fair to show my comment from yesterday (making it seem like I did nothing) and not this one as well.
I have also since apologized to TT for everything as I get that while don't respond to that type of forced engagement, her intentions were right.
This is not making you look any less of a asshole gossipy shitbag. SMH
One other thing: if you are white, you are most likely racist and your entire existence is awash with the privilege of being white. Your every experience and thought and interaction. Accept that. Let that permeate your every thought. Remember that when you are discussing race or anything tangentially or slightly related to race. Remember it when you are interacting with POC. Let it check your every thought and word.
Then maybe you can learn to do better and not be racist.
jessnpaul and I are in a local MMM FB group together. Someone kindly tagged me in a post there, saying how shitty this whole thing is. You know, b/c we have all met each other. Our kids have played together. HUMAN SHIT LIKE THAT. In that post, jessnpaul decided that instead of paying attention to what the fuck is happening here, she needed to know why I defriended her. Now, I was pretty much defriending everyone anyway, cuz why the fuck do I need to be friends with you after this, but I told her "For fucks sake, are you really going to make this about you right now? I'm defriending everyone." To which she replied "Ok" and then I was like, eh fuck it, might as well burn it all down in one shot.
THIS rubbed me the wrong way at the time but I brushed it off b/c I've been hearing this shit all my life:
But NOT TODAY FUCKERS. I posted that screenshot in the facebook post and got a "I can see where that could be taken as offensive".
HELLO, HAVE YOU NOT READ ANYTHING POSTED OVER HERE LATELY?!
I'm tired dude. I'm really fucking tired of this shit. So I left the FB group.
And I feel like I'm not even coherent anymore. My mind is blown by the stupidity.
ETA: When CloudBee (who has been an amazing friend through all of this) pointed out that my parents live in Newark (and I grew up there), she was all "Oh, I had no idea"
I never saw the Newark comments when they happened. Even if I was over at MMM at that time, I never would've opened a Jersey GTG post. But that is PRECISELY the kind of shit that white liberals are so guilty of.
That's what Midwesterners do. They use coded language. "Sketchy" areas. "Bad" schools. And nobody ever digs down and asks more. WHY are you scared riding the bus? WHY won't you go to Newark? I am noticing these things more and more because I've learned a lot more about the segregation and the issues in my community in the last couple of years, but I know that black women have noticed them for years.
When the board lets comments like these slide, it sends a message. And it's not a pretty one.
Here's the Cliffnotes of the book. *Spoiler Alert* Fragile white girls, have been strategically shitty for years, in the name of feminism, but really, it's all coded language to justify and keep White Supremacy within the family. They only want to be equal to white men. They may welcome black men, with open arms and dry as fuck vaginas, but they'll never be bothered to do anything to further assist black women. Ever. Quite frankly, Black women don't give a fuck, and will continue to be fly as fuck, as y'all get older, less attractive, and more and more invisible. Black and brown women will stay awesome as ever, forever, Amen! It's 2016, and we out of fucks to give. Also, Orange is the New Black, Girls, and Tina Fey aren't shit.
So micrgroaggressive book group, please be sure to tell us how you like them apples come this October, you hear! I thank you kindly, in advance for preparing to drop some "knowledge" on us all.
I had this book on hold at the library before the book club thing was even posted. Is the book full of microaggressions, are you anticipating the conversations being full of microaggressions, is the formation of a group to discuss a recommended book a microaggression, or is it some of the specific people who are involved in it? I read reviews on it and it seemed like an OK next step to take, but I don't want to waste my time reading it.
I know now it rings hollow given that all of this continues to happen, but I am actively doing things to continue to open my eyes. I hate that even one of my efforts to do better is seen as a microaggression. (Note: I'm not saying that it isn't, just that the more I read & think, the deeper I see my issues...and obviously, I'm really disappointed in myself.) I'm taking steps, and want to keep from taking yet another misstep in my efforts to do better and be better.
One other thing: if you are white, you are most likely racist and your entire existence is awash with the privilege of being white. Your every experience and thought and interaction. Accept that. Let that permeate your every thought. Remember that when you are discussing race or anything tangentially or slightly related to race. Remember it when you are interacting with POC. Let it check your every thought and word.
Then maybe you can learn to do better and not be racist.
I'm just going to keep following you from board to board, liking your posts. I think what you said here is so important.
One other thing: if you are white, you are most likely racist and your entire existence is awash with the privilege of being white. Your every experience and thought and interaction. Accept that. Let that permeate your every thought. Remember that when you are discussing race or anything tangentially or slightly related to race. Remember it when you are interacting with POC. Let it check your every thought and word.
Then maybe you can learn to do better and not be racist.
thank you. I've been dropping fuck yous which is all the patience I have left. This is better. Look, it's uncomfortable to think you are fragile, awful, not a true ally. But we've had centuries as white women to benefit from being white, even before we had the right to vote or own anything. That is why people like @asjkfl and other feminists piss me the fuck off when they are all "let's lift each other up"to women of color. It is fucki ng easy for us to say this as WHITE WOMEN. Let this all sink in and I swear if there is a bag of dicks to anyone, especially my faves (yes I have them) my fuck yous will know no limits. Nuclear and messy will be all over up in here.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
In my personal opinion, if it was a poster that did not stand up for herself, I don't think anyone would defend them. When a person does stand up for them self and point out the injustice, more people are likely to assist. If this was someone who was shy or less direct and didnt speak up, this board would never see what flaming assholes look like. Honesty most people do not have the patience for this and would just dip.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud."
I agree with this, and I agree with what @mx posted above along similar lines.
The comments about how awesome a certain POC is start to me to sound like "but you're just like us!" it's like there's this element of surprise that a WOC is awesome, and the fact that they are awesome is why the racism is so upsetting, not because it's racism.
To a certain extent I think that's human nature. We are much sadder when something bad happens to someone we care about and we like.
But when posts like these are full of comments of "Nata you are so awesome, I cant believe someone would treat you this way!" it makes me wonder if the opposite would be true as well - "nata you are not awesome, so I can believe someone would treat you this way."
The way we have treated WOC on here has been messed up and wrong. Regardless of how much we like that specific poster.
And honestly, all the comments about how well-liked a certain poster is seem hollow when we don't do anything to actually stand up for that person until something like this happens.
I'm sorry, I fucked up and I've been an asshole. I want to make this better so that I never cause another person pain again. I have no excuses...,I'm just humbly sorry, I won't ask you to forgive me, all I can promise is that you WILL see that I've changed for the better.
Wrong apology:
Everything in this thread
Lol forever that toledo liked this post. The irony and comedy is so unreal!
(I left out an important name redaction, pic back in one min)
(Further redacted Picture is back)
I just wanted to make it clear that while I did disagree a lot with TamiTaylor's methods and I did participate in conversations outside race during this time. I DID stand up for Natariru. I did shut it down when she was removed. Like most posters, who have relationships outside the board we discussed things outside the board, but I did not do so to exclude a person who was my friend.
This is the same point in the conversation Natariru screen shot yesterday, only she cut off my comment that was mere seconds after the initial call out. If you want to see the less redacted names, the first post shows all these comments in a less redacted form.
I know it won't matter to people who have their mind made up about me, but I just didn't think it was fair to show my comment from yesterday (making it seem like I did nothing) and not this one as well.
I have also since apologized to TT for everything as I get that while don't respond to that type of forced engagement, her intentions were right.
It's no secret on here that jessnpaul is one my best friends IRL. I have known her for many, many years. She is fiercely loyal to her friends, and she considered @natatiru a friend. I'm guessing she didn't realize this was a mass defending, and took it personally.
Once upon a time a post on these boards was an IRL friend of mine and made racist comments in posts I wasn't a part of or wasn't reading or whatever. I was too blind to see it. When it was pointed out the only thing I could say wasn't some like - that doesn't sound like her or I have always known her to be kind. Something like that.
So I basically excused her behavior because she is always so kind and friendly around me IRL. And managed to hurt a poster on here who have I have considered a friend for years.
So moral of the story? Be better than I was. Don't defend her.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
sadly we didn't even do it for @kirkette originally
One other thing: if you are white, you are most likely racist and your entire existence is awash with the privilege of being white. Your every experience and thought and interaction. Accept that. Let that permeate your every thought. Remember that when you are discussing race or anything tangentially or slightly related to race. Remember it when you are interacting with POC. Let it check your every thought and word.
Then maybe you can learn to do better and not be racist.
Mr. Smock and I were just making a similar statement (though not as eloquently) over the weekend: if you grow up white in America, you are constantly exposed to the message that your skin is superior. You literally can't avoid it, nor can you avoid benefiting from systemic racism. Trying to claim that white privilege doesn't exist, or doesn't effect you, is a damn lie, and it's offensive.
Last year my mom thought about auditing a class on race in America. On the first day, the professor defined racism and she said it made her feel guilty for being white. I encouraged her to stay in the class, and pointed out that she has benefited her entire life from systemic racism, so she shouldn't try to hide from it. But she decided not to audit the class, and I am still so disappointed that she took the easy way out. She is a white, liberal woman who certainly does not think she's racist, but she is unwilling to subject herself to minor discomfort to fight racism. And she's also the person who raised me--so I know I have to do better.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
sadly we didn't even do it for @kirkette originally
Right?! I just finished reading the ML post on the "resolution to the BOD" and I can't believe I had no idea what was going on until it was brought to this board. I feel awful that I wasn't fighting for Kirkette more. She was left high and dry by so many people, stuck defending herself again. I am glad ML finally came around, but we (white people) have learned NOTHING.
Here's my question though, because I've seen a lot of "Nata, you are so awesome". Would y'all be standing up like this for a less well liked, less established poster? Because I think we'd all like to believe the answer would be yes, and I also just as strongly think the answer for many would actually be no.
And that's the height of where we need to start unpacking this shit. Because it's not "I'm against racism when it happens to women that talk like me and are educated like me and who I think are funny (until they make me uncomfortable or get loud.)"
sadly we didn't even do it for @kirkette originally
I was just thinking about this, how her AMA spiraled out of control with several of the more popular posters making snide jokes for likes and belittling her. I don't know that all of them fully apologized either. She stood up for herself and on here, at least, people said they realized they were being racist and promised to try to do better. Then it was revealed just recently by a mod that behind the scenes posters from this board were trying to get her banned at the same time that they were supposedly "listening and reading and learning"! I'm sure there are some regulars on here who don't want their PMs on that issue made public. It's just really gross, hypocritical behavior. It's rinse and repeat on this board. People mouth the right platitudes on here publicly then get caught talking smack privately somewhere else. Why even bother if you don't really mean it?
Gotta get that one brown friend, ya know? Because we're all LEARNING AND LISTENING
I've been the funny brown friend all my life. Or the one they call in when they are too scared to say something themselves. "Oh tell Renata, she'll go after them for you."
Also, this really resonated with me. How many times did I see "tell natariru because she'll call someone out!". It's so dirty and ugly and wrong. We should all be so lucky to have the balls vaginas of a WOC.
ETA: edited to vaginas. Because balls are sensitive and weak and the WOC are anything but.
I'm sorry, I fucked up and I've been an asshole. I want to make this better so that I never cause another person pain again. I have no excuses...,I'm just humbly sorry, I won't ask you to forgive me, all I can promise is that you WILL see that I've changed for the better.
Wrong apology:
Everything in this thread
Lol forever that toledo liked this post. The irony and comedy is so unreal!
I was wondering the same thing. Would this have been fine if it were another less active poster? Or someone who was BEC?
I'm guessing so bc the opposite is happening in here too. Plenty of popular white posters are being shitty and they barely get any heat.
I will never understand the fangirl behavior that goes on in this place with some of the so called "popular posters" Some of those so called posters are downright racist bitches.
I think a lot of us agree with this statement. I refused to partake in the "fan girling" but soooooo many on here did. Maybe now people are finally seeing what some of those popular posters are really like. I hope people are.
Post by DarcyLongfellow on Sept 9, 2016 8:48:10 GMT -5
I am so incredibly grateful for the discussions about race that I've read on CEP over the past several years. And I'm grateful to the women of GBCN for teaching me that I live in a bubble of white privilege. I have forced myself to have uncomfortable conversations with my 7 year old because I want her to grow up to be aware of her privilege and to fight against racism when she sees it.
And I know that I have a long way to go.
The fact that some people chose to gossip and exclude instead of examining their own behavior makes me profoundly sad. What the fuck, ladies.