'Research shows that people with the most education, highest mathematical abilities, and the strongest tendencies to be reflective about their beliefs are the most likely to resist information which should contradict their prejudices.'
No ma'am you are missing the point of bringing up the fluff posts.
Because it is not just today or last week that we would have discussions about racism and people would veer around them to talk about ignorant shit. I'm not saying that fluff conversations cannot and should not happen. I'm saying that on this board of it wasn't fluff or white feminist shit then it was ignored.
So if you are too simple to get why I brought up permissive diapering and try to reduce it to me taking away from the thread you Madame are missing the fucking point.
I almost forgot! Please don't feel left out! I'm equal opportunity!
FUCK YOU!
I DO get the point of your posts. None of your posts apply to my statement:
But I don't get people coming in here and dissing the board in general for talking clothes/sleep, rolling, diapers, wtv with absolutely no context to the racism issues and/or specific posters.
What? Nobody is saying this though. Several people made a point of explicitly stating that fluff posts have their place on this board. But it's not cool for regulars who normally tell us the daily minutia of their lives to use their privilege to refuse to comment in the serious threads and only post in the fluff ones that are going on simultaneously.
Post by oceanstbride on Sept 9, 2016 12:11:25 GMT -5
I haven't read the whole thread, but was able to read the first few pages. Seriously WTF. Gossip train? And here I thought that this was a group of people who were mostly here to be around other moms (and dad) and support each other. @natariru I am so sorry that you've been hurt by this group over and over again in the last few weeks. You have been so open about the things you have to think about raising your non-BHBE sons and how your normal is much different than my normal (having a BHBE son almost the same age as S).
(I left out an important name redaction, pic back in one min)
(Further redacted Picture is back)
I just wanted to make it clear that while I did disagree a lot with TamiTaylor 's methods and I did participate in conversations outside race during this time. I DID stand up for Natariru. I did shut it down when she was removed. Like most posters, who have relationships outside the board we discussed things outside the board, but I did not do so to exclude a person who was my friend.
This is the same point in the conversation Natariru screen shot yesterday, only she cut off my comment that was mere seconds after the initial call out. If you want to see the less redacted names, the first post shows all these comments in a less redacted form.
I know it won't matter to people who have their mind made up about me, but I just didn't think it was fair to show my comment from yesterday (making it seem like I did nothing) and not this one as well.
I have also since apologized to TT for everything as I get that while don't respond to that type of forced engagement, her intentions were right.
At this point there have been a ton of "not getting it" replies to this specifically, but all of these after-the-fact attempts to "put things in context" is exactly the sort of stuff that WOC posters are complaining about. It come across as "well ACTUALLY you shouldn't be so mad because <whatever>". It doesn't matter what is meant, it's what is heard.
And this is not some mysterious unwritten rule. People are pretty much spelling it out at this point.
I'm only just catching up with this thread now, but THE FUCK people.
I had never heard the terms microagression or white fragility before GBCN, so I am not going to pretend I have my shit together. I'm still in the very early stages of learning and facing that I have racist biased just due to being a white, middle classed female. But FUCK people is it so god damned hard to treat people with some fucking respect?
Well, we now know the true intentions and feelings of a few people on here, which is pretty great. Because now we all know what terrible people they are and can collectively rage at the back-pedaling, hollow apologies, and bullshit "I'm listening and learning" statements. You want to be a closet racist while still wearing a flashing "I'm an ally!" Button? Yeah, fuck you. (Not you, curbsideprophet)
Post by winemaker06 on Sept 9, 2016 12:38:15 GMT -5
I can't keep up. I may never get to the end of this thread but I have read enough to know that there is so much I don't know.
Similar to the Newark posts- I live near enough to Baltimore that I grew up being told not to go to certain areas due to crime, and not to go into the city alone at night, etc. So that was completely normal to me since apparently my bubble is quite thick and large. Thanks to this board I'm learning better.
What I'm reflecting on now is how to take action. Is it enough to just speak up when the comments are made? Probably not, though I'll continue doing it. Driving through the said 'dangerous' areas of the city will not 'prove' anything to anyone. Donating and volunteering my time doesn't seem like enough either. These posts are really making me think lately. But I'm a little scared to ask questions and show my ignorance. I'm mostly reading a lot to work on that ignorance and hope to contribute more over time.
I'm only just catching up with this thread now, but THE FUCK people.
I had never heard the terms microagression or white fragility before GBCN, so I am not going to pretend I have my shit together. I'm still in the very early stages of learning and facing that I have racist biased just due to being a white, middle classed female. But FUCK people is it so god damned hard to treat people with some fucking respect?
This is where I'm at too. I have so much to learn especially with wrt microaggressions and what it means to be racist but the lack of human decency is just appalling.
One other thing: if you are white, you are most likely racist and your entire existence is awash with the privilege of being white. Your every experience and thought and interaction. Accept that. Let that permeate your every thought. Remember that when you are discussing race or anything tangentially or slightly related to race. Remember it when you are interacting with POC. Let it check your every thought and word.
Then maybe you can learn to do better and not be racist.
Stopped at 26, pages behind, BUT every.single.word of this
I'm an occasional CEP poster. I'm another white woman who has selfishly benefitted from 8 years of regular exposure to CEP and P&CE before that. It's amazing & appalling in equal measure how much I've been made aware of. Hell, thanks especially to summer & NitaXeven my H has benefitted immeasurably by proxy, finally seeing the ridiculously appalling Zwarte Piet tradition in his country for what it is. And this is a small fucking example and does nothing to elucidate the numerous daily ways in which he & I and all of us are fortunate to be exposed. It's vital. It's essential.
This much I know: awareness and internalization is where it starts; a daily dialogue with yourself and in your interactions.
My words mean nothing (and at this point, are probably way out of sync/stupidly redundant) but the onus is on me both individually & collectively. If we're not moving forward, we're moving backward.
Mine, too. And then he introduced the concept of microaggressions and why they matter to a few of his friends. Positive ripple effect.
This fucking board has single-handedly driven away more amazing women than I can count. It's fucking shameful.
I can't keep up. I may never get to the end of this thread but I have read enough to know that there is so much I don't know.
Similar to the Newark posts- I live near enough to Baltimore that I grew up being told not to go to certain areas due to crime, and not to go into the city alone at night, etc. So that was completely normal to me since apparently my bubble is quite thick and large. Thanks to this board I'm learning better.
What I'm reflecting on now is how to take action. Is it enough to just speak up when the comments are made? Probably not, though I'll continue doing it. Driving through the said 'dangerous' areas of the city will not 'prove' anything to anyone. Donating and volunteering my time doesn't seem like enough either. These posts are really making me think lately. But I'm a little scared to ask questions and show my ignorance. I'm mostly reading a lot to work on that ignorance and hope to contribute more over time.
People that live, work, have family and community in these "dangerous" areas don't need white girls driving around trying to somehow prove they aren't racist because they're going into these "scary" neighborhoods. They don't need you to volunteer in their neighborhoods either like they're some sort of poor ignorant folk that need a white girl to come rescue them.
I don't understand how there are so many people here acting like white privilege is a new thing. It's not. It's been around much longer than I have. If it's new to you, your parents never brought it up with you, you never took a class where it was discussed, or it has never been pointed out to you by a friend, at the very least, make sure that is not the case for your own kids. Start discussing it with them now. Let's raise thoughtful, curious, loving, and, yes, educated little bugs. This is where we have the most control- our own words and actions and how we raise our kids.
Post by undecidedowl on Sept 9, 2016 13:15:05 GMT -5
I don't "know" people here, I don't remember names. I wouldn't recognize if someone was hanging out only in fluff threads without stepping foot in here. So I looked for myself. Any guesses how many names I had to click before finding someone who was posting only fluff?
No, you don't need to guess. Because if you're in here you already know it only took me one freaking name to find someone avoiding the "hard conversations".
I don't understand how there are so many people here acting like white privilege is a new thing. It's not. It's been around much longer than I have. If it's new to you, your parents never brought it up with you, you never took a class where it was discussed, or it has never been pointed out to you by a friend, at the very least, make sure that is not the case for your own kids. Start discussing it with them now. Let's raise thoughtful, curious, loving, and, yes, educated little bugs. This is where we have the most control- our own words and actions and how we raise our kids.
How are so many people are new to white privilege, yet so many people also read The Invisible Knapsack, while RAs, in college? What in the world? Did any of the text sink in? Are you applying the lessons learned to you life? Are you still listening, learning, and absorbing? The hell is happening?
No, because they (me included) don't have to deal with racism on a constant basis. We make these large, sweeping promises of change and tend to back away or bury our head when it gets uncomfortable. (Not coincidentally, It's our privilege that allows us the ability to do that.) people don't like to be uncomfortable and have confrontations with themselves in the mirror. It's the easy, cowards way to just go buy Starbucks for the person behind them in line and call it good.
Post by newnamesameperson on Sept 9, 2016 13:26:54 GMT -5
I'm so thankful for this thread. As I shared on the WOC board, I've had people state various remarks to me about my own race and other races which have always made me question myself. I often wondered if I misinterpreted it. Did they truly mean it like that? No, they are liberal.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
Liberal is now probably the new code word for saying I have ____ (insert whatever race you want) friends. You can pretend to be tolerant, but really you're the same as an intolerable racist who doesn't identify as liberal. The only difference is you do it in a more subtle manner and then when it's put in your face you run, don't participate, and only show remorse for how it effected you. So keep calling yourself a "liberal" and realize when the moment comes to defend those "liberal" values you stood silent or ran away.
I DO get the point of your posts. None of your posts apply to my statement:
But I don't get people coming in here and dissing the board in general for talking clothes/sleep, rolling, diapers, wtv with absolutely no context to the racism issues and/or specific posters.
Thanks for volunteering as Exhibit A.
And here we have a WOC who is quite simple and deliberately obtuse.
No sugar you do NOT get it.
You're actually something even more insidious. The wannabe Darth Becky.
I don't understand how there are so many people here acting like white privilege is a new thing. It's not. It's been around much longer than I have. If it's new to you, your parents never brought it up with you, you never took a class where it was discussed, or it has never been pointed out to you by a friend, at the very least, make sure that is not the case for your own kids. Start discussing it with them now. Let's raise thoughtful, curious, loving, and, yes, educated little bugs. This is where we have the most control- our own words and actions and how we raise our kids.
How are so many people are new to white privilege, yet so many people also read The Invisible Knapsack, while RAs, in college? What in the world? Did any of the text sink in? Are you applying the lessons learned to you life? Are you still listening, learning, and absorbing? The hell is happening?
You know as well as I do that behavior change is HARD. There are studies and studies dedicated to questioning why knowledge is not enough and what it takes for actual change to occur. It's like language. If you don't use it, you lose it. If you are not forced to use it, you default to what is easy and comfortable. 20+ years later, I still make mistakes in French and I certainly still question my own thought patterns.
This drama is awesome. The other board I am on shuts shit like this down. I could read this all day though. It is amazing.
It's wonderful you are on a board that "shuts" it down but I am not. It isn't amazing. It makes me feel horrible. All of this makes me feel sad.
People had real investment in each other and have been friends much longer than I've been on the board. It is sad when friendships end. It's sad when you find out your friends aren't really your friends. It's sad when trust is broken.
It's sad when someone finds enjoyment in the worst parts of society.
I was just thinking about this, how her AMA spiraled out of control with several of the more popular posters making snide jokes for likes and belittling her. I don't know that all of them fully apologized either. She stood up for herself and on here, at least, people said they realized they were being racist and promised to try to do better. Then it was revealed just recently by a mod that behind the scenes posters from this board were trying to get her banned at the same time that they were supposedly "listening and reading and learning"! I'm sure there are some regulars on here who don't want their PMs on that issue made public. It's just really gross, hypocritical behavior. It's rinse and repeat on this board. People mouth the right platitudes on here publicly then get caught talking smack privately somewhere else. Why even bother if you don't really mean it?
And that AMA was the post where I called out @this , who admitted to being shitty and knowingly joking about my daughters and myself for basic bitch mean girl snaps, and then tried to act all willful ignorant with the, "I was going to say I'm sorry, but she didn't want to hear it. I don't know what to doooo?", then rolled on with the basic microaggressive shit, day in day out, like " Why do people care and post about Education. I can't stand that. I'm perfectly happy here in FL, sending my kid to our great school. I know I'm privileged, but why to other people care about education in this country. Tee hee hee! Oh I learned a new young black slang term that I'm going to keep using, poorly to look cool amongst the suburban moms pushing 40. I stay on fleek. I'm not ratchet, and I like to throw shade with my gal pal @vicmo . But, fuck discussing education? amirte?". To which rbp and I were like, "Girl no! Education is like the most important thing to discuss. Are you serious? .
I know when I'm not working with the brightest crayon in the box, but why wear your Basic Beckiness and White Flightness, and wilful ignorance as proudly as a "Harvard Dad" Sweatshirt?
Please see also: The "I can't believe greatest hits from @this
Vol 1 - I can't believe POC have standards and want them to rise above via education and manners
Vol 2 - I can't believe people care about Education
Vol 3 - I can't believe women have the nerve to not be Classical Feminist
Vol 4 - I can't believe people vote Republican. Only Republican's are true racists.
Vol 5 - I can't believe women marry guys who aren't slovenly idiots.
Vol 6 - I can't believe people had the nerve to be decent to me. I'm entitled pregnant and white. I'm going to rage on all human beings because I feel like it and have no damn sense.
I could go on, but I'll stop there, because damn, what else can't you believe in ... Using a filter, having some damn manners, and working out your blatant insecurities so you don't treat other people like shit for cheap laughs?
Well I am relived that my tag was not for a "Fuck You!" I didn't want to read this thread and not comment. I'm not sure what to say about race conversations on this board in general because I've been clueless/a shitty ally. I love y'all though and will do better.
I mentioned it in another thread, but I feel like this is where Canada's at. Nooo, we can't possibly be racist. Only Americans have a problem with racism, and we're better than the Americans (being "better than the Americans" is very important to Canadians). People will be all "yay multiculturalism! Yay refugees!" and then shit like what happened to Jesse Lipscombe happens (http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/edmonton-is-better-than-these-fools-video-of-racist-incident-going-viral-1.3054670) or everyone just ignores the missing and murdered indigenous women.
There is absolutely a lot of head in the sand, we are post racial, Canada isn't racist like the U.S. Going on up here. I'm on the west coast from an incredibly white, terrible, racist, classist "city" it's fucking disgusting how inclusive they think they are. Anywhere I go with L just confirms over and over how little growth we have had. And this doesn't even tough choice the racism against Chinese and Japanese people - holy fuck is it bad.
The shit people said when we started dating, my (then) friends were all nodding like yea Gracie's fat, with that big ass - of course she's dating a black man. Or the fucking comments about his cock. shameful people all hoighty toighty on how less racist we are than the U.S. Not so. Not so at all.
Ugh, that is vile. I grew up in predominantly white, conservative Calgary. I mean, at the time I didn't think it was. I remember telling people at uni that it was very diverse (lol for days, but then again, when you go to school in NB it's nothing but a sea of white so pretty much anywhere seems diverse in comparison). Of my group of childhood friends, 1 was Egyptian, 2 were Indian, 1 was Chinese and the rest of us were white anglos. I'm positive my friends experienced a ton of racism growing up there, but they never mentioned it to us. And being white, we had the luxury of never having to think of it. I often wonder if I have different memories of our collective experiences, all because nothing racist was ever directed at me, and I didn't know/couldn't be bothered to look for it. I know what you mean about the west coast though. I just spent 10 months in Victoria. It is the picture of white, liberal elite.
You know as well as I do that behavior change is HARD. There are studies and studies dedicated to questioning why knowledge is not enough and what it takes for actual change to occur. It's like language. If you don't use it, you lose it. If you are not forced to use it, you default to what is easy and comfortable. 20+ years later, I still make mistakes in French and I certainly still question my own thought patterns.
Sure behavior change is hard. However, refraining from being a complete asshole shouldn't be that difficult.
You know as well as I do that behavior change is HARD. There are studies and studies dedicated to questioning why knowledge is not enough and what it takes for actual change to occur. It's like language. If you don't use it, you lose it. If you are not forced to use it, you default to what is easy and comfortable. 20+ years later, I still make mistakes in French and I certainly still question my own thought patterns.
Sure behavior change is hard. However, refraining from being a complete asshole shouldn't be that difficult.
Apparently it's the most difficult thing ever. Or so it would seem.
You know as well as I do that behavior change is HARD. There are studies and studies dedicated to questioning why knowledge is not enough and what it takes for actual change to occur. It's like language. If you don't use it, you lose it. If you are not forced to use it, you default to what is easy and comfortable. 20+ years later, I still make mistakes in French and I certainly still question my own thought patterns.
Sure behavior change is hard. However, refraining from being a complete asshole shouldn't be that difficult.
I can't keep up. I may never get to the end of this thread but I have read enough to know that there is so much I don't know.
Similar to the Newark posts- I live near enough to Baltimore that I grew up being told not to go to certain areas due to crime, and not to go into the city alone at night, etc. So that was completely normal to me since apparently my bubble is quite thick and large. Thanks to this board I'm learning better.
What I'm reflecting on now is how to take action. Is it enough to just speak up when the comments are made? Probably not, though I'll continue doing it. Driving through the said 'dangerous' areas of the city will not 'prove' anything to anyone. Donating and volunteering my time doesn't seem like enough either. These posts are really making me think lately. But I'm a little scared to ask questions and show my ignorance. I'm mostly reading a lot to work on that ignorance and hope to contribute more over time.
Just don't slam where people live or where people they love live. Not that hard.
See I give back to the boys and girls club bc they gave so much to me growing up, but if you don't feel it you don't feel it.
When I pack my kids lunch at night, I pack two extra lunches for two homeless gentlemen I see every morning when I go into work and every payday I do my best to get them a dunkin donuts gift card and I ask how they are doing.
It should always come back to the golden rule and I can never understand why it never does.
Just catching up and seriously... Don't be an asshole, don't wear your I live in a bubble like its a badge of honor, and don't have a but after your sorry to justify your mistakes. Why is that so hard for some people That's about all I can coherently put together right now.
We need an IP address check on the dumbass dragon. That troll is too bold, so I'm guessing it's a dumb ass regular like, Booby, Lucy Honeychurch , toledo , et al.
The posting styles are too familiar. Although, it's likely not Booby because the troll can actually compose coherent sentences, and isn't recommending the ugliest of hammer pants, paired with shit from Old Navy.
The terribly awkward interior "design" posts were a personal favorite of mine. Bless it. I nicely suggested that she fire whomever she was paying to give her that advice, but perhaps I should have done more...