I will say that TK won me over at the end with his stance and comments on abortion. Pence mad me almost homicidal as an Indiana resident that has had an abortion. He did pass legislation to punish women. He has made abortion access almost non existent. Which is why I went to Kentucky to have an abortion and have taken others to Kentucky to have abortions. He has made it damn near impossible for people to receive any sort of government assistance. Pro life, my fucking ass.
If I could pretend the rest of the debate didn't happen, I would say this moment for Kaine made him win:
But unfortunately ITK just was weirdly agressive and hit a million talking points and repeated himself about them even when they weren't related to the question being asked (Korea? Syrian children dying?)
Kaine had much better substance and (gasp) actual facts, but he did himself no favors with the interruptions. Pence said nothing, but he said that nothingness in a more statesmanlike way.
Either way, come Sunday, no one will care about this.
Post by compassrose on Oct 4, 2016 22:03:24 GMT -5
One of my FB friends posted that he wished Kaine and Pence were the presidential nominees and that this is how debates should go. I cannot figure out which debate he was watching, because it sure as hell wasn't this one.
MSNBC is saying Pence won because he looked like a statesman, whereas Tim Kaine came across as annoying. Sigh.
If we could count actual content, I would say Kaine won, but no one seems to care about facts and accuracy and truth, and other inconsequential items like that.
TK really won it for me at the end with his comments regarding abortion. I don't think he had the greatest delivery at all and his one condescending comment to the moderator made me cringe, so I almost put that neither won, but I think I will give it to TK for finishing strong.
I didn't see the entire thing, but based on what I saw, Pence. I expected Pence to be a fuckwit and he was. I expected Kaine to be more polished and more focused than he was. So from that, perspective, he lost. He fell short of my expectations.
This is what I just texted my sister (mind you I saw very little of the debate). All FHTK needed to do was not suck so doing well is icing on the cake. He passed that bar. He didn't fall flat on his face.
Also, we're not going to be talking about this tomorrow evening. Trump will lose his mind that nobody is talking about him so he'll flip out and do something crazy and we'll be back on the Trump Crazy Train again.
Pence may have won but I think Tim Kaine did exactly what the campaign wanted him too. They wanted him to get Pence on record lying and refusing to defend Trump. Pence basically spent the whole time making an argument for his own brand of Republican and positioning himself for 2012. He refused to defend Trump multiple times.
Plus, Pence getting positive debate coverage leads to the inevitable comparison of Pence and Trump. This is clearly meant to cause more issues in that campaign and have ads of Pence being a lying liar.
Pence may have won but I think Tim Kaine did exactly what the campaign wanted him too. They wanted him to get Pence on record lying and refusing to defend Trump. Pence basically spent the whole time making an argument for his own brand of Republican and positioning himself for 2012. He refused to defend Trump multiple times.
Plus, Pence getting positive debate coverage leads to the inevitable comparison of Pence and Trump. This is clearly meant to cause more issues in that campaign and have ads of Pence being a lying liar.
Pence is exactly what the not completely batshit insane Trump supporters want him to be... a semi-normal conservative evangelical Republican. People are dreaming that Trump truly will allow him to do everything and Trump's crazy will not run the show. Pence could pretty much do anything up there on the debate stage, and he looks calm and professional compared to crazy man Trump. So yeah, he did that, he looks like a politician.
Kaine went too aggressive against Pence because he was prepping as if Pence would come out like Trump, which Pence didn't. But I think Kaine drove a few important things home, including the pro-choice stance, and hopefully it is enough of what it needed to be.
If you guys don't follow Owen Ellickson, you should. He does hilarious faux Trump conversations that he calls Trump Leaks. And he started a GFM to raise $10K for the American Refugee Committee, to help the kinds of people that Trump (and Pence) think don't deserve help -- because $10K was the estimated max that Trump had donated to charity in seven years. His followers have already donated more than $30K. He's offering to write personalized Trump Leaks for people who donate certain amounts.
Post by maddiepaddy on Oct 4, 2016 23:49:05 GMT -5
Eh, it was about what I would expect and honestly, neither stood out. However, Kaine won thanks to not being a negative asshole.
The difference between the two campaigns was very striking in watching this debate. The negativity that Trump/Pence is running on gets so exhausting. According to them, everything is awful and we're going to hell in a hand basket. Clinton/Kaine's message is so much more optimistic, positive, and uplifting. Seems that they both stuck to their scripts :/
I think Pence came across as more "with it" but I think he also was smug and if I was someone watching without a strong opinion on either, I would think that Pence was a smug asshole and Kaine was rude with the interrupting. But to be fair, Pence did a fair amount of interrupting as well. Kaine just started out doing it so it stuck out to me the whole time.
I agree with eclaires though that Kaine did exactly what he was supposed to do. He made Pence spend the whole night dancing around Trump and his ludicrous statements, and if people actually listened, then Pence came across as ridiculous with the whole "insult driven campaign" thing, considering what Trump has said about Hillary. He got Pence on record with that quote about "could not be more proud" to stand with Trump.
Kaine was not as good as I expected, but I think he came back at the end.